The movie looks corny and cheap as hell

[Deleted]

So where's the trailer?
If Universal/Legendary (or Blizzard, or whatever) don't release the trailer in front of BvS, then they want their own movie to flop.
Unless they want to release it with Civil War, but... wasn't the trailer supposed to come out this month?

[Jshadowhunter]

Like any movie with high budget?

Honestly, it looks like Uwe Ball. Particularly, I just can't stop laughing looking at that shiny plastic human armor.

Compare to what? Normal armor?



Not every armor needs to be battleworn and beaten, coated in mud and blood to look realistic.

[Vzz]

Silent Hill was a decent movie. It looked good and it was accepted by the fan base.

Mortal Kombat

[Ethas]

Compare to what? Normal armor?



Not every armor needs to be battleworn and beaten, coated in mud and blood to look realistic.

I naver made the comparison. I just said that the armor looks ugly and plastic. Those armies are like ridiculously shiny cheap knights in your local toy store. I never said it must be historically correct or something.

[Deleted]

Strawman after strawman. I see that there is no point in arguing with you. I just hope that you get in a brawl with someone like Alistair Overeem in your life, to put you in the right perspective of how sluggish trained 250 pound fighters are.

Strawman? Using logic and arguing rationally is strawmanning?

Again we are talking about sword fighting. But let me guess, Alistair Overeem will grab the sword and break it in half with his uber 250 pounds.

Kryos explained to you in detail why you are wrong.

[Romano]

Strawman? Using logic and arguing rationally is strawmanning?

Again we are talking about sword fighting. But let me guess, Alistair Overeem will grab the sword and break it in half with his uber 250 pounds.

Kryos explained to you in detail why you are wrong.

You dont use logic, you use basic misconceptions.
Logic dictates that the stronger/bigger fighter will win in a brawl.
The "big guy is sluggish, i can take him" is a mere myth, unless you talk about obese dudes.


In my country in order to enter military school you must be at least 1.70 m and special forces 1.80.
I presume similar standards apply to other countries as well.
Why do you think that is ?

[Deleted]

You dont use logic, you use basic misconceptions.
Logic dictates that the stronger/bigger fighter will win in a brawl.
The "big guy is sluggish, i can take him" is a mere myth, unless you talk about obese dudes.


In my country in order to enter military school you must be at least 1.70 m and special forces 1.80.
I presume similar standards apply to other countries as well.
Why do you think that is ?

We are talking about FENCING for crying out loud.

In sword fighting more mass is useless and even counter productive as explained many times before.

And have you actually looked at most soldiers in special forces or the army? Go have a look at the forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, most of them have a well trained body but over all have a normal physique. Why on earth would you want to drag around 130kg of muscles and then 20kg of equipment on top of that?

[Ghâzh]

You dont use logic, you use basic misconceptions.
Logic dictates that the stronger/bigger fighter will win in a brawl.
The "big guy is sluggish, i can take him" is a mere myth, unless you talk about obese dudes.


In my country in order to enter military school you must be at least 1.70 m and special forces 1.80.
I presume similar standards apply to other countries as well.
Why do you think that is ?

Does your country still use sword as a side arm in your military? The height requirement is due to the basic level of strength needed for specific purposes dictated by the military force type. For example, if you need to evacuate someone you need to be able to lift him up and if you're a midget it just won't happen. Also troops such as military police benefit from the size/ strength due to higher reliance on hand to hand fighting.

Now a sword fight is totally different from pure hand to hand combat. Especially in limited armor/ no armor and 1vs1 it's the one with better training, speed and reflexes that lands the higher amounts of blows and wins the fight.

A more realistic combat situation (unit vs unit) with more armor can be different. A situation like that can lead to the opponent using more sheer force to over power the enemy BUT it's usually fought with different weapons (pikes, lances, polearms) instead of swords, which in return, balances things out size wise.

Money isn't the issue, it's the amount of people working on it.

Guess what more money buys? More people working on it. -.-

the armor servers as a story telling trope. We see the worn armor, we know he had some battles, depending on the damage, maybe a real hard one, which we don´t even need to see, the armor tells the story.

Dents and scratches are fine (there are actually some if you look at the close-ups) but it doesn't really impact the shine if the armor is kept clean and oiled. But I agree, armor getting progressively more damaged would be awesome detail. Although most troops never see any battle (realistically speaking) so it's just wrong giving everyone the same battle-worn looking, dirty stuff. Another often used thing is to make the armor look like antique, because hey, medieval armor looks old right? (which of course doesn't make any sense when it's more or less new equipment >.<)

[Romano]

We are talking about FENCING for crying out loud.

In sword fighting more mass is useless and even counter productive as explained many times before.

And have you actually looked at most soldiers in special forces or the army? Go have a look at the forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, most of them have a well trained body but over all have a normal physique. Why on earth would you want to drag around 130kg of muscles and then 20kg of equipment on top of that?

if your enemy is storng enough to lift horses and throw them, you bet your ass he is gonna wreck you in a duel as well.
Every hit he lands will make you lose balance and fall down.

[Fascinate]

Ive been playing WoW since 05, and i love movies.....but this one isnt looking good lol.

Will i watch it? If it comes to netflix i guess.

[Ghâzh]

if your enemy is storng enough to lift horses and throw them, you bet your ass he is gonna wreck you in a duel as well.
Every hit he lands will make you lose balance and fall down.

Well, once the disproportions become large enough, it's possible to overpower the enemy with sheer force. Especially if the bigger opponent is wearing armor or is otherwise more tough then a regular person. Although if the smaller opponent is more skilled and fast, it should still be possible to take down the bigger foe with the clever use of pole-arm. Then again, it's hard to say at which point exactly you simply just stomp your smaller enemy because there's not much historical reference. There's no real super sized threats that fight you back with weapons to compare to. What we do know however is that historically it wasn't the biggest or strongest fighter that won but the most skilled one.

[Deleted]

if your enemy is storng enough to lift horses and throw them, you bet your ass he is gonna wreck you in a duel as well.
Every hit he lands will make you lose balance and fall down.

And when your enemy can shoot laser beams from his eyes he can melt your sword too!

This forum......

[Romano]

And when your enemy can shoot laser beams from his eyes he can melt your sword too!

This forum......

The fact that you thought this sarcasm was even relevant to the slightest is beyond me.
Seriously what the fuck does this have to do with anything ?


If you and any heavier/stronger dude fight on even terms with just brute force, chances are you will lose.
The "drag 130 kg mcules with you" killed me.
That's not how mucles work.

[Tart]

It's an embrassment to the game.

[Ghâzh]

If you and any heavier/stronger dude fight on even terms with just brute force, chances are you will lose.

And how is this relevant to the topic? Are you proposing that the orcs settle their quarrel with the humans by seeing who can bench press more? What is a fight with just brute force? What are even terms?

[Verterdegete]

First of all, strength is very important in melee combat. You need strength to block, to parry, to push your opponent away, and of course - to deal the blow. You have to be able to keep your composure, and break the other guys composure. As the weight difference increases, the lighter guy is in bigger trouble.

Secondly, heavier guys are taller in general. And with height advantage also comes the reach advantage. The guy with the longer reach has a much wider kill field, while the smaller guy has the additional problem of having to close the distance. Reach difference between a 60 kg guy and a 120 kg guy (this is Baikalsan's genius example) is 0,3 meters. In a fight, this is huge.

Now, you can say that the smaller guy can duck, dodge roll, run around etc. But that comes with a price. Those moves are very expensive energy wise. The smaller fighter will gas out much much faster that way. It's much much more energy efficient to block and parry. Using a longer weapon also doesn't help. The bigger the weapon is, it gets more heavier and more difficult to use in an agile way. And btw, the bigger guy can also use a longer weapon and extend that reach advantage even longer.



The problem here is that people think of a 220+ pound fighter as a stereotypical strongman that usually gets cast in movies to play the big guy. A guy like Mountain in GoT. A clumsy flesh golem that just swings around and crashes stuff. While in reality, 110+ kg fighters look like this:

[Ghâzh]

First of all, strength is very important in melee combat. You need strength to block, to parry, to push your opponent away, and of course - to deal the blow. You have to be able to keep your composure, and break the other guys composure. As the weight difference increases, the lighter guy is in bigger trouble.

The objective in blocking and parrying is not to take the force of the blade but divert it and work around the balance point. It's got a lot more to do with skill and speed rather than strength. Same deal with an attack. It's more about the right technique (edge alignment, retaining your composure after an attack to stay in defense and timing). You just don't hack away with force. Pushing is rarely used, if it is, it's not out of necessity.

I agree with the reach. It's a problem but can be worked around with.

[Deleted]

What we do know however is that historically it wasn't the biggest or strongest fighter that won but the most skilled one.

And the Orcs even have that advantage, being naturally born fighters, living for war. It's their very nature.

Humans can't compare. Not in size, not in strength, not in skill. They're outclassed on all fronts.

That doesn't mean someone like Lothar can't win a duel with an Orc, but it's not a common sight. The most common outcome when an Orc and a Human fight is that the Orc wins. Other outcomes are a rarity.

Aside from duels, I do believe the Humans have the advantage of fighting as a team, whereas the Orcs prefer to depend on themselves. That might be the Humans' only advantage in big battles.

[Deleted]

First of all, strength is very important in melee combat. You need strength to block, to parry, to push your opponent away, and of course - to deal the blow. You have to be able to keep your composure, and break the other guys composure. As the weight difference increases, the lighter guy is in bigger trouble.

Secondly, heavier guys are taller in general. And with height advantage also comes the reach advantage. The guy with the longer reach has a much wider kill field, while the smaller guy has the additional problem of having to close the distance. Reach difference between a 60 kg guy and a 120 kg guy (this is Baikalsan's genius example) is 0,3 meters. In a fight, this is huge.

Now, you can say that the smaller guy can duck, dodge roll, run around etc. But that comes with a price. Those moves are very expensive energy wise. The smaller fighter will gas out much much faster that way. It's much much more energy efficient to block and parry. Using a longer weapon also doesn't help. The bigger the weapon is, it gets more heavier and more difficult to use in an agile way. And btw, the bigger guy can also use a longer weapon and extend that reach advantage even longer.



The problem here is that people think of a 220+ pound fighter as a stereotypical strongman that usually gets cast in movies to play the big guy. A guy like Mountain in GoT. A clumsy flesh golem that just swings around and crashes stuff. While in reality, 110+ kg fighters look like this:

Get a clue about fencing before you spout such nonsense as reach and that you need a lot of strength to "parry".

[Verterdegete]

The objective in blocking and parrying is not to take the force of the blade but divert it and work around the balance point. It's got a lot more to do with skill and speed rather than strength. Same deal with an attack. It's more about the right technique (edge alignment, retaining your composure after an attack to stay in defense and timing). You just don't hack away with force. Pushing is rarely used, if it is, it's not out of necessity.

You can say all that for boxing, wrestling and MMA too. Yet still, weight and size still matter.