Chronicles lore spoilers

[Zulkhan]

They have an arcane society, interwoven with their peaceful, knoweldge loving and nature affinity tendencies, an attribute that carries over from their dark troll days which sets them apart from the other trolls, and leads to both their self discovery and development of magic. It goes hand in hand, even when the highborne go too reckless, they are still obsessed with making everything right and making Azeroth a paradise.

I don't think you read the book much carefully. What is pretty damn evident is that these aspects weren't intertwined at all. Night Elves started as a peace/nature loving society with no particular ambitions until a certain number of them wanted a different life, that's why they began to study the Well, they wanted to directly wield that power. If anything this created a division between your most common Night Elf who maintained the original mentality and the Highborne who elevated themselves and eventually grew to watch all other Night Elves as inferior beings.

While Azshara was indeed interested in knowledge and grew obsessed with the Well and the fixation that Highborne had to learn all the secrets about it (in order to shape Kalimdor in the way the vainglorious saw fit) she and the Highborne clearly didn't give a crap about nature, nor they seeked knowledge for the sake of it bur rather to achieve their ambitions, much like the Zandalari. Azshara is shown in Chronicle to feel nothing but contempt for Hyjal and its Wild Gods, she despised the harmony reigning there and how she felt she couldn't expand her influence up there. Likewise, Cenarius despised Azshara and the Highborne's hubris, depressed by the fact that while most Night Elves retained their original mentality, they had no influence towards the deranged Highborne. It also clarifies that Azshara and her dogmas caused a tense atmosphere, promoting xenophobia and racial purity ideologies.

[Sentynel]

Strange since the Naaru are the beings of pure light and benevolence. However, when they die, they become the polar opposite... which isn't Void Lords? Doesn't really make sense.

Take a look at the cosmology chart. The Naaru are below the Light, they're not the strongest Light entities, only the most powerful manifestations of it.

[Qualia]

The problem I have with the idea of Sargeras being thousands of years of travel away from Azeroth is the timeline we were presented with. Aggramar is out demon hunting one day, and senses the dreams of a world soul from a distant corner of the Great Dark. He travels there (time) and discovers Azeroth, and the Old Gods. Aggramar swiftly returns to the Pantheon (time), and convinces them to save Azeroth. The Pantheon travels to Azeroth (time), and creates the titan-forged and the keepers and fights the Old Gods and makes Azeroth all nice-nice as they can. The titans then left Azeroth behind and went back home (time). Later, they throw down with Sargeras, and lose.

So did all of those places where (time) passed in that story take eons of travel?

The thing is all early events weren't given a fixed timestamp (i.e: X thousand years from the Dark Portal like all events later in the book). Hence, we can only roughly estimate when these events happened based on events described later in the book. Let me try to get some estimations out there.

We know the Titans' fight with Sargeras happened at least 7,000 years before WoTA (10,000 years before the opening of the Dark Portal). That's because by the time the Mogu's Ages of Hundred Kings happened (15,000 years before Dark Portal, in other words, 5,000 years before WoTA), Raden had been missing for millenia. However, how many thousand years was that "millenia" accounted for? We don't know, it could be as "short" as 2,000 years, it could be as long as another 10,000 or more. Now, if Rise of the Horde timeline still hold, then the Titans' fight with Sargeras happened at least 25,000 years before the opening of the Dark Portal (based on the corruption of Argus' timeline), that makes it 15,000 years before WoTA. That means, in the worst (best?) case, Sargeras could be 15,000 years away from Nihilam with it begin in middle of wherever Sargeras was and Azeroth when he detected the Highborne.

Now, tracking back further, we found out that it, again, had been millennia between the first time Odyn turned Helya into his Valkyr and Loken's betrayal (assuming that it happened relatively shortly after the Pantheon's defeat by Sargeras hand instead of Loken having an affair with Sif a few hundred / thousand years before killing her) .

For millenia, Helya had dutifully followed Odyn's commands, transporting the spirits of slain vrykul to the Halls of Valor. Yet even while she did so, Helya nursed the cold anger that stirred in her phantom heart.

That makes it another few thousand years between the Aspects' empowerment (what made Odyn emo'd - the Titans should still be alive by then) and the the battle with Sargeras.

It's hard to track back even further, since there wasn't any solid mention of time and date. It were just vague words ("ages", "a long time", etc.) - for example

Ra himself, seeing his work completed, would spend the following ages roaming the southern regions of Azeroth, distantly observing his titan-forged and ensuring that they upheld their sacred charges. (The Ordering of Azeroth)
or
In the ages after the Pantheon left Azeroth, myriad life-forms flourished across the surface of the world (Galakrond)

So, how long is "ages" supposed to be? Years? Hundred years? Thousand years? Or more? We don't know, but I don't expect the Ordering of Azeroth was done within a short amount of time. Interestingly, they did use "eons" in the book, "The awoken C'Thraxxi looked upon troll civilization with contempt, for it was but a pale shadow of the Black Empire eons past (Empire of Zul)" or "In the eons since the Ordering of Azeroth, a sharp awareness has begun to stir within the entity" (Loken's Betrayal). I'm assuming these "eons" used the word's figurative meaning of a long time, instead of its literal meaning of a billion years because otherwise, the Titans would have spent million years between their departure from Azeroth until their defeat.

So yes, to answer your question - many these events that you marked with (time) in the story happened thousands years apart. Hence, although we can't be sure since it wasn't directly stated in the book, it wouldn't be weird if these locations were thousand years away from each other in travelling distance too. In the worst case, they (the Pantheon & Sargeras) could have just gone further and further away from Azeroth, for example. Although, that only applied to events happened after the Pantheon's arrival at Azeroth, however, since there weren't even any vague indication of time before that - the Pantheon could have been a lot closer to Azeroth when Aggramar detected it.

[KyrtF]

Sargeras could beat the entire Pantheon? What shit is this!?

Poorly written fan fiction.

It's kinda disheartening to see that this is the best story and lore Blizzard can come up with.

WoW Insiders TFH theory on Azeroth was much more coherent, more professional and better suited to the universe.

[Friendlyimmolation]

There is no way they would reover the extent of knowledge lost before, nor many remarkable discoveries/know-hows without the lost libarries, but they would develop other things, new things, and they would remember somethings, even after a 3,000 year break. .

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=14430/h...-the-construct
http://www.wowhead.com/quest=14429/a...e-construction

[khalltusk]

So I read through my entire book that turned up on the weekend. Must say it was a fun read, hope the other parts come out soon. The art work is delightful though and the overall size and quality of the book is fantastic.

[Jaese]

Poorly written fan fiction.

It's kinda disheartening to see that this is the best story and lore Blizzard can come up with.

WoW Insiders TFH theory on Azeroth was much more coherent, more professional and better suited to the universe.

Well, I mean he was (likely) pretty powered up from what Mardum did to him and was the Pantheon's greatest warrior.

[khalltusk]

When I said the book I meant the Chronicle. Yes, from what I read from SoL the Chronicle said that Cenarius taught the tauren druidism but also stated that Malfurion was the first mortal druid.

The Yaungol came first and were flesh shaped by the Mogu and their intelligence was also heightened. So the original Yaungol were most likely not as intelligent and could only learn so much. Thus not being a druid as we know it.

That seems to be the most likely explaination.

[Immitis]

so if you want to blame a race for bringing shit to Azeroth blame the High Elves and their stupid unicorns

except the high elves are the ancestor of the highbourne rebels, without there help the legion wouldve won, the highbourne loyal to azshara are the naga

[Combatbutler]

And the Highborne alone are the scumbags who invited the Legion in, once again made extra clear in this book they did this against the Night Elf race, so if you want to blame a race for bringing shit to Azeroth blame the High Elves and their stupid unicorns. But realistically, there is no one to blame according to the story, this shit was all but inevitable.

Doesn't mean the highborne are not responsible for luring the legion with the reckless use of magic, the legion might have found Azeroth on its own, but they still bear the responsibility of drawing them here, it could have taken tens of thousands of years before they found it.

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except the high elves are the ancestor of the highbourne rebels, without there help the legion wouldve won, the highbourne loyal to azshara are the naga

Night elves in general are still responsible, the highborne are part of their race and were no real outcast to boot, they were the rulers of their society. Just imagine if almost all the nobles of humanity start to endanger the planet, that makes it a human matter.

[Zulkhan]

Poorly written fan fiction.

It's kinda disheartening to see that this is the best story and lore Blizzard can come up with.

WoW Insiders TFH theory on Azeroth was much more coherent, more professional and better suited to the universe.

Did you actually read the book at least?

And the Highborne alone are the scumbags who invited the Legion in, once again made extra clear in this book they did this against the Night Elf race, so if you want to blame a race for bringing shit to Azeroth blame the High Elves and their stupid unicorns. But realistically, there is no one to blame according to the story, this shit was all but inevitable.

Well, they were a scumbag breed of Night Elves but still Night Elves were. Let's not forget that while "lower" Night Elves despised Highborne for their hubris, they were totally in love with Azshara, even though she was arguably the worst of all. It's not terribly different from the Orcs/Gul'dan situation (Gul'dan wasn't charming at all but used a lot of scheming and deceit to compensate).

I say this also because someone can't claim Night Elves once dominated the world ignoring the fact that if they did it was entirely thanks to the Highborne and their magic. Before Night Elves began to study the Well of Eternity they were nothing but a small nation built around said Well only concerned with peace and tree-hugging.

So who here thinks Elune is actually the Titan in the Azeroth now? I do I do.

I kinda doubt it, but I think there could be a connection indeed.

[LazarusLong]

Why on earth are they responsible for what the Legion did. Is this the fantasy equivalent of slut-shaming rape victims?

Because they allied with Sargeras, willingly.

[Combatbutler]

Why on earth are they responsible for what the Legion did. Is this the fantasy equivalent of slut-shaming rape victims?

As if the night elves were innocent bystanders, a good chunk of their population were allies of the legion.

[Mace]

They don't need to discover Highborne magic, it's largely obsolete compared to the things Blood Elves and Humans wield currently. What the Night Elves lost was a lot of lives and dominance as a huge power on the planet. The Highborne's magic is inferior to Druidic magic, a point driven home with Night Elf lore. That isn't to say Arcane magic is inferior, just the Highborne's brand. Night Elves joining the Kirin Tor and learning the Arcane from *them* rounds out their versatility as a civilisation.

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=14430/h...-the-construct
http://www.wowhead.com/quest=14429/a...e-construction

I think you're interpreting it wrongly. And grossly generalising - it is clear ancient elves achieved a degree of knowledge and mastery un equalled today - the narrative basically tells you that. When you think about it, they had many more minds, who were just as smart as any elf today, many more resources and a unification and peace for several millennia no modern culture has had yet.

It is quite plausible as evidenced by their society, that they made many remarkable discoveries, and did many remarkable feats that are unparralled. It doens't mean they were the best in every department or every subject matter, but they had discovered a hell of a lot.. and they lost a lot of that knowledge.

Look at the main groups now:
1. Night elves - they abandoned magic until now - stopped practising, no progress whatsoever
2. High elves - they start practicing again 3,000 years later, no resources from the pre-sundering empire - think in scientific terms - no vast computer libraries of info - think starting from scratch in science after a world apoclaypse, to get todays level of infrastructure takes more than just knowledge or the capability to acquire such knoweldge - what we have is a result of millions of individuals, thousands of towns, companies people doing their own thing, discovering stuff, sharing stuff and using that stuff for something - it takes all that to bring up a society like that - High elves didn't have that, they stuck to themselves and though their knowledge grew advanced and i'm sure would have superseded what came before, except they didn't have billions of people, a thriving economy, entrprising, etc
3. Shen'drelar - they have a lot of the ancient knowledge in their city university - but no interest in building a civilizaiton, in fact no interest in doing anything but indulging their curiosities and arcane theory - do you know what that is like in real life? A theoretical physcisits, you come up with lots of fascinating and intriguing theories abut nothing happens with them. you have all manner of knowledge, computers with schematics/spells for all manner of wonders that help society, improve people's lives, improve your environment, make it better - but you simply don't care, you are more concerned with the mysteries of magic and you continue there. That's your shen'drelar - and in fact you when they emerge they tend to want to be by themselves rather than start building their people's society again -

but then it's only been a few years, and the night elves have a lot of other things to deal with first before building new homes and rebuilding their 10,000 year old civilization.
4. Nightborne - they are not all researchers, they are a preserved full cross section of society - people who would use magical discoveries like we use any scientific discovery, we'll make an application that improves our chosen field, since we are a large cross section we can do some pretty neat stuff in each of our areas.. however..problem is nightborne society is contained to one city, there are limits, they can't grow to large, no where to expand, the rate of growth and development everything is limited, can't build new cities, can't extend your city, it halts progress, and sort of keep it close to where you were at sundering.

All of this simply puts that despite survivors of all kinds - whether descendants, whether the same people who were alive during that age of wonders - each is presented in conditions that made it impossible for them to re-create or reach the heights of before. The ones with the best chance were the High elves. But they had nearly 6,000 years and they barely expanded, they were content to be in their little utopia and keep to themselves, the main night elf group - most of the men were sleepiing for decades and centuries at the time - what does that do to the birthrate, the women constantly patrolling, never settling down - even if they found nature equivalents to everything that was possible with the arcane, their lifestlye and mandate was very different, they were not about rebuilding their own society, they were about fulfilling their new mandate - Guarding the world, standing ready for the legion, fighting world threats and corruption, guiding the evolution of the world. They sacrificed themselves - they weren't about becoming more prosperous getting more children , ample food etc.


WoW takes place in a post apoclayptic world.. the golden age of mortals happened in the night elf empire - they reached an unsurpassed height (not like what the draenei had on Argus), and a huge destruction extinction event occured, and it's taken ages for everyone to begin to get together again.



Finally the only thing you can say for sure is that the knowledge of arcane constructs was better than that of the amateurs in Azshara. The blood elves in Azshara are delighted at the amateur state of the night elf trainees, but also terrified at the potential should they fully embrace their arcane heritage... why? Because they are elves, they are a bigger body of people more resources and they have access to a lot more knowledge through the Shen'drelar. Atm, they're at amateur stage.

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As if the night elves were innocent bystanders, a good chunk of their population were allies of the legion.

no, they weren't, according to the accounts, itw as the queen and the highborne, largely most of the highborne near the palace too. When you read WotA, you could tell that most of the highborne were way in over their heads anyway, more like forced labor, thing of scientists given no choice but to slave endlessly, not allowed to quit, even those who wanted to flee, remember how Xavius started forcibly corrupting elves as well.

THe majority of the night elf population was destroyed - most were lost as the demons tore through the cities, the felhounds devouring magic users of all degrees - WotA share that they all were spell users and it started from an early age, all learnt magic from childhood like you would reading and writing, Malfurion was not a sorceror by choice but he was a very clever spell caster. The Queen unleashed the demons on her populace. Highborne rebelled agianst her, night elves rebelled against her, unlike the Draenei, they didn't all follow their leaders into Sargeras' deception.

No, remember. Goldrinn fights with the Highborne at Eldre'thalas to save the city and falls there - or was it Ursoc.. I don't remeber. Menaar disagreed with excessive use of magic and declared it reckless, they also fought off the demons. Although we get a shortened version in WotA book because they are repairing the timeline, the original timeline has this war taking place over 250 years, and slow defeat of the night elves to the legion and the queen. Near the end, according to Chronicles, is when the Wild Gods are finally convinced to join, as well as the Dragons and this how they manage to storm the Palace and Malfurion does his thing

[Combatbutler]

snip

The shen'dralar lost almost everything,constantly declining for millennia while the highborne in the eastern kingdoms expanded their knowledge prospered and grew for thousands of years creating new magic etc. later combining their studies with humans, who also help advance the arcane over all. The highborne in the west were superior at one point, but got overtaken by those in the east. The blood elves are not terrified, but rather concerned, they are just ordinary night elves learning magic after all, not pure bred highborne and as such have not such a great affinity for the arcane than their highborne counterparts, who were bred to increase arcane affinity, not to mention today ancient highborne are incredibly rare.

- - - Updated - - -

no, they weren't, according to the accounts, itw as the queen and the highborne, largely most of the highborne near the palace too. When you read WotA, you could tell that most of the highborne were way in over their heads anyway, more like forced labor, thing of scientists given no choice but to slave endlessly, not allowed to quit, even those who wanted to flee, remember how Xavius started forcibly corrupting elves as well.

THe majority of the night elf population was destroyed - most were lost as the demons tore through the cities, the felhounds devouring magic users of all degrees - WotA share that they all were spell users and it started from an early age, all learnt magic from childhood like you would reading and writing, Malfurion was not a sorceror by choice but he was a very clever spell caster. The Queen unleashed the demons on her populace. Highborne rebelled agianst her, night elves rebelled against her, unlike the Draenei, they didn't all follow their leaders into Sargeras' deception.

No, remember. Goldrinn fights with the Highborne at Eldre'thalas to save the city and falls there - or was it Ursoc.. I don't remeber. Menaar disagreed with excessive use of magic and declared it reckless, they also fought off the demons. Although we get a shortened version in WotA book because they are repairing the timeline, the original timeline has this war taking place over 250 years, and slow defeat of the night elves to the legion and the queen. Near the end, according to Chronicles, is when the Wild Gods are finally convinced to join, as well as the Dragons and this how they manage to storm the Palace and Malfurion does his thing

That doesn't change the fact that the night elves are responsible, heck Alexstrasza tells them that they are to blame for the whole fiasco, but they cleaned up their mess. As I said before even if only the human nobles would decide to ally with the legion the human race would be branded as well, heck the same happened to the blood elves after the sunwell fiasco as well.

[shoc]

Something new from Dave Kosak (via reddit):

It's too late. Azeroth will never wake up. He was the Titan's last hope.
...But a bit of his spirit dwells within every hero of Azeroth, every mage who picked up a wand, every warrior who took up a blade, every champion from any world who took root in Azeroth and decided to defend it as their home.
We mortals are all that stands between the Light and oblivion, but so long as this world is our home we're lit from within by the heroic spirit of a dormant Titan.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._story/d1asbba

[KhazzahK]

Something new from Dave Kosak (via reddit):

It's too late. Azeroth will never wake up. He was the Titan's last hope.
...But a bit of his spirit dwells within every hero of Azeroth, every mage who picked up a wand, every warrior who took up a blade, every champion from any world who took root in Azeroth and decided to defend it as their home.
We mortals are all that stands between the Light and oblivion, but so long as this world is our home we're lit from within by the heroic spirit of a dormant Titan.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._story/d1asbba

Beat me to it. This is really interesting, as we the champions of Azeroth are the last stand against Sargeras/The Void Lords

[durrtygoodz]

So basically there's no point to anything and every player is mary sue

B R A V O
C H R I S

[Raetary]

Something new from Dave Kosak (via reddit):

It's too late. Azeroth will never wake up. He was the Titan's last hope.
...But a bit of his spirit dwells within every hero of Azeroth, every mage who picked up a wand, every warrior who took up a blade, every champion from any world who took root in Azeroth and decided to defend it as their home.
We mortals are all that stands between the Light and oblivion, but so long as this world is our home we're lit from within by the heroic spirit of a dormant Titan.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._story/d1asbba

god no, please just no.

[KhazzahK]

So basically there's no point to anything

that's actually the opposite of what I got out of it but hey, whatever floats your boat.