[Balance] Legion Discussion

[wing5wong]

StFl * 10 in rbg > Mass dispel > gg ?

[Cyous]

StFl * 10 in rbg > Mass dispel > gg ?

PVP modifier needed, or target cap. ^_^ No different from Bladestorming for 1mil damage over 6sec. -> get punished for stacking

[wing5wong]

On the pvp side, I'd love to see stfl have a pvp use.
admittedly i havent done anything that high this season, but every other season has been incarnation/euphoria for RBGs, and if you ran a boomy you needed to bring an aff lock, or at least a spriest for dispel protection.
StFl with dispel protection would bring a very serious choice for boomy. extra damage vs dispel protection, and ability to run more varied comps
Maybe a SS worth of damage in Aoe is too much, im not sure - UA hits really hard.
How are other classes on legion with dispel protection mechanics - i assume they still exist?( Spriest VT, Ele Flameshock, Lock UA)

The current 75 talents i dont see anything but Incarn being used for pvp - its just too good.


T60 - I would love to see bash moved into a ranged stun - possibly at a shorter duration. it really F**king sucks trying to run around a pole as a boomy.
With mushroom slow gone and treant roots gone, we have nothing to slow outside of 30sec CD Faerie (which i assume can be dispelled, havent had a chance to pvp on alpha)
Roots need to take more damage top break for that to be a useful talent - they break if you look at them funny on live.
Typhoon knockback range is disgusting when compared to thunderstorm and explosivetrap

T100 talent are also a major issue for boomy pvp (read useless).
FoE is far too difficult to pull off in large scale pvp. Even in 3s it will be extremely difficult to maintain it while the enemy just walks away out of the tiny radius.
Without vortex, it could only be stacked with mass grip (do dks still have it in legion?)
Without auto tracking, its damage will be completely avoidable and probably better off spent on a starsurge, considering the effort required to maintain it (you have to spam on a dummy, not possible against 3 others stopping it)


We have lost pretty much every control ability we had for pvp as well
We lost treant root, we lost mushroom, vortext, disorient, spammable faerie swarm and now have only the choice of Cyclone or Faerie Swarm (cyclone should be the obvious choice here)
Bash remains strong, but could do with being ranged (maybe shorter stun, shorter cd)

Its hard enough to hardcast at anything on live, i cant imagine it in legion, and can see us devolving to moonfire spam/SS, and WoE LS because its all we can do out side of our 1 minute silence and melee stun

[Madus]

T100 talent are also a major issue for boomy pvp (read useless).

This is the reason why i suggested FoE remake to CS as single target dot and Stellar drift remake to Solar orb as current FoE with bigger radius.
FoE would support our "dot" side with single target burst option. SOrb would support our "area of denial" side with burts aoe option.
Nature balance would stay passive, but i also have no idea what it should be. Maybe instead of dot enhancing it should somehow beef up our SW/LS hardcasting (there was already some suggestion as explosions when SW hit SFed target).

[huth]

I'd really like to see Stellar Flare get some love.

I'd be for everything that makes it stop scaling quadratically with Mastery.

Maybe lower base damage a bit and make it "natively" scale with Mastery, like the other Star spells. Would make the spell fit much better thematically, as well.

[Mace]

I would really like its spell visual to change to something nicer -- i like active abilities, but it looks almost identical to Lunar Strike.

[wing5wong]

I like the visual, but the only difference is the inner color. purple (or blue? not at home right now)/orange for StFl, and Purple/Blue for LS
Maybe if the inner color was more pronounced it wouldnt be as bad

[Lucrece]

It's an awful electrical, laser like effect. I would think a flare would look completely different.

And I far prefer Starfire's older animation to the copy paste of Stellar Flare we got.

[wing5wong]

looks like this to me - a solar flare

[Madus]

I would change LS visual to current Full Moon visual, it have splash so "meteor" like visual is fitting.
New moon should have graphic like those "slim dark moonfire beams" in darkheart thicket, Halfmoon like current LS visual and Full moon like that fat beams what are summoned by hydras in eye of azshara.

[huth]

looks like this to me - a solar flare

One could argue that it needs to be upsized a tad. But that only makes LS all the more unfitting.

[Frostyfire14]

I absolutely cannot stand Legion's Nature's Balance and WoD's Balance of Power. It literally removes game-play from the specialization. I sincerely hope they either change or completely remove this concept from our talent tree.

I will suggest something, but I have no access to the Alpha so whatever I do suggest may not be necessarily be needed for that row of talents; rather to just change what the talent is.

To remain a passive talent, here's a suggestion to replace Legion's Nature's Balance "meh"chanics.

Nature's Balance
Passive (Requires Level 100)
Casting specific abilities grants a unique effect:
-Starfall causes your next Starsurge to hit an additional target for 75%(PH) damage.
-Sunfire causes your Moonfire to spread to additional enemies nearby.
-Starsurge reduces the cost of Starfall by 20 Astral Power.

Apologies in advance if this sounds god awful, but I'm just trying to bring ideas to the table! GL Boomkin Testers!!!

[Adramelch]

I absolutely cannot stand Legion's Nature's Balance and WoD's Balance of Power. It literally removes game-play from the specialization. I sincerely hope they either change or completely remove this concept from our talent tree.

I disagree about WoD's Balance of Power. If anything, in fights that it was somewhat good (see Maidens), I felt it improved the game-play if anything, but adding a mini-game where you tried to spread out your casts to avoid manually dotting any of the 3 bosses for as long as possible.

Also I have no problem with the occasional talent simplifying rotation, for these people that want simpler rotations (at a DPS cost pretty much). The only problem I have with it is that the current iteration just seems awfully underwhelming.

[Frostyfire14]

I disagree about WoD's Balance of Power. If anything, in fights that it was somewhat good (see Maidens), I felt it improved the game-play if anything, but adding a mini-game where you tried to spread out your casts to avoid manually dotting any of the 3 bosses for as long as possible.

Also I have no problem with the occasional talent simplifying rotation, for these people that want simpler rotations (at a DPS cost pretty much). The only problem I have with it is that the current iteration just seems awfully underwhelming.

Indeed. I find choosing a talent that alters sometimes two, or even 3 spell abilities can dramatically change the way one plays on any given fight if the talent is chosen.

[wing5wong]

Nature's Balance
Passive (Requires Level 100)
Casting specific abilities grants a unique effect:
-Starfall causes your next Starsurge to hit an additional target for 75%(PH) damage.
-Sunfire causes your Moonfire to spread to additional enemies nearby.
-Starsurge reduces the cost of Starfall by 20 Astral Power.

I believe they are not trying to implement mechanics like that which have significant variations to many abilities.
The ability itself was fine until the addition of AsP to the dot casts. Now it needs something else
maybe impact damage when casting on a dotted target, maybe bonus asp when casting on a dotted target.

the talent should remain fairly thoughtless IMO(as bad as that sounds), some players dont want added complexity

[Frostyfire14]

I believe they are not trying to implement mechanics like that which have significant variations to many abilities.
The ability itself was fine until the addition of AsP to the dot casts. Now it needs something else
maybe impact damage when casting on a dotted target, maybe bonus asp when casting on a dotted target.

the talent should remain fairly thoughtless IMO(as bad as that sounds), some players dont want added complexity

I see. So due to the addition of AP generation through casting Moonfire and Sunfire, what if the talent simply did this instead?

Nature's Balance
Passive (Requires Level 100)
You no longer gain Astral Power by casting Moonfire and Sunfire but instead gain 1(PH) Astral Power every time they deal damage.

[Lucrece]

I prefer it not do that.

What I want is the shaman treatment for talent. Less passives, more active new spells. If we get any passives, they should be reactive procs and elements that dramatically switch up your usual rotation or cause a fun interruption.

The problem with balance druid talents is that they're BORING. At this rate I'll probably look at shamans this xpac, both their artifact traits, new spells, and talents look a lot more inspired and flavorful than what druids got.

[wing5wong]

Was just the first thing off the top of my head.
Passives that affect rotation are definitely better than those that just accelerate it.

Secondary passive effects like wrath on a SF target cause the target to pulse a small radius aoe (shamans magnitude), or LS on a MF target cause the MF to spread to splash targets could be interesting (shamans path of flame).
Never really been one to have the interesting idea for new spells!

[Frostyfire14]

Was just the first thing off the top of my head.
Passives that affect rotation are definitely better than those that just accelerate it.

Secondary passive effects like wrath on a SF target cause the target to pulse a small radius aoe (shamans magnitude), or LS on a MF target cause the MF to spread to splash targets could be interesting (shamans path of flame).
Never really been one to have the interesting idea for new spells!

It's definitely not easy, which is why mine are often building blocks to much, much, much better ideas haha!!

Kid you not, I almost suggested having Moonfire Spread via an ability like you suggested. but then that's just copy pasting a spell we already have (aka boring)

[xtramuscle]

When DOTs tick they have a chance to cause X. X, new spell, only castable when it procs. Dot interaction, interesting game play, unpredictable nuke for pvp. Could either do alot of damage like starsurge before they nerfed it to empower builds -_-; or make it a short dot with dispel protection.