Dave Kosak: "Azeroth will never wake up."

[Wolfheart9]

.. How does the guy who writes the lore, not expect for his posts about lore, to not be taken as cannon?

[KrazyK923]

Ummm the game did not. He always used it as an "our father". The game implied he was not. Nyxondra had several failed experiments which implied they were breeding something with her.

The entire Legendary Rogue quest directly implies he's Deathwing's son.

But I'm one-of-a-kind! A black dragon raised free from the taint of my father's corruption. And that's how I intend to stay: free.

How many gems have you collected?

Are my father´s minions as twisted as him?

Do you understand why I have you assassinate the dragons, yet spare the mortals? It isn't their fault. They must seek out their own destiny, free from the meddling of my kind.

We are nearing the end of our mission, and it is time for you to seek out your own destiny as well. I can continue to augment your weapons, but collecting shadowy gems won't be enough. My work will require entire clusters. Gather them from my father's minions...

Your next target has claimed the lives of all of my other assassins. I need you to kill my father himself.

You must destroy Deathwing.

We are out of time. His madness has already corrupted all the others of my kind, and his darkness will consume the world if he is not stopped.

If you by some miracle succeed, and can retrieve for me a piece of him - perhaps a fragment of the armor he uses to disguise his true chaotic nature - the reward I give you will be without equal.

Feel free to pretend he was speaking as just the patriarch of the Black Dragonflight. But the pure quest text very much implies he's Wrathion's son. Until 2013 when Kosak started commenting on it on Twitter.

[owbu]

Okay, I am sorry, but I think I want less communication (outside the game and the books) about lore from blizzard. Especially from this guy, but also in general. He reminds me of George Lukas, constantly fiddeling around with the story, trying to improve/explain things and somehow making it worse in the process.
This is not how story telling works. Go meet in a room. Decide what you want the story to be. Tell that story. Ingame. No "clarifications", "reclarifications", backsies, "I think there might be .. but might not be canon" and so on.

[TheDestinatus]

Wait, you're comparing mammalian or animal biology to a being born from the mingled essences of a living planet and existing as a quasi-physical, quasi-spiritual entity on a cosmological level? Titans can probably be anything they bloody want to be - the outward representation of their gender probably has as much to do procreation as a human hand has to do with flagellum. In the Warcraft universe we could just as easily have a male/female distinction because the Titans do, rather than the other way around.

No they can't, because they don't actually exist. They aren't real so stop trying to apply your sexual desires upon them. Gender has absolutely nothing to do with the story, its not like Sargeras would have done things different if he was a woman because, heres the kicker, hes not real. Get over your gender issues.

[turboether]

There is zero indication what happens to the planet when the world-soul is complete.

Something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4GaPcLgOs

Or more like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HM7kgvbr2E

Or more likely it will speak telepathically to every player character and tell them 'I just woke up to say it was you all along, I'm going back to sleep now, have fun saving the... er... me.'

[Oneirophobia]

Even so He did everything right (now i dont know in this is Canon, slap me if it isnt)
Helping garrosh and kairoz on draenor and hoping for the Iron Horde to Come into MU azeroth as an stronger United Front against the Legion.
If succed: good, a stronger front
If not succeded: a stronger front trough experience.

He did nothing right. Absolutely nothing. Wrathion is a total idiot. He sent Kairoz and Garrosh to Draenor, causing the Iron Horde, which if you remember the Tanaan intro quest, got TONS of Azerothonian heroes killed. Veterans of the Cataclysm, heroes who directly struck against the Lich King, people who stuck their own blades into C'thun and Yogg Saron. All dead.

And for what? What good came of it?
Because of Wrathion, a new Gul'dan ended up back in Azeroth and ushered in the largest Burning Legion invasion that Azeroth has ever seen. And yet, even more Azerothonian heroes are dead because of his idiocy. Varian is dead. Vol'jin is dead. Who knows who else is going to die.

Wrathion is the literal reason the Legion is able to invade in such a large scale. He may yet be responsible for more damage than his father.

He should be hunted down and executed.

He's an extremely arrogant fledgling dragon, and frankly an idiot.

[Berri]

Applying Ra-Den's whole 'But there is a yawning chasm of darkness beneath you, mortals. Vast, endless, and all-consuming' to the newly introduced lore, one could potentially reach the conclusion that the world-soul is long-lost anyway.

If you link Warcraft to Lovecraft, Azeroth (Azathoth) was probably always intended to succumb to corruption.

[KrazyK923]

Something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4GaPcLgOs

Or more like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HM7kgvbr2E

Or more likely it will speak telepathically to every player character and tell them 'I just woke up to say it was you all along, I'm going back to sleep now, have fun saving the... er... me.'

Points for FF9.

- - - Updated - - -

Applying Ra-Den's whole 'But there is a yawning chasm of darkness beneath you, mortals. Vast, endless, and all-consuming' to the newly introduced lore, one could potentially reach the conclusion that the world-soul is long-lost anyway.

That or he's referencing the Void Lords. Even though they didn't exist until Chronicle, but still.

Or could reference N'Zoth, who has a "maw" type aesthetic to him now with official pictures.

[TheDestinatus]

Applying Ra-Den's whole 'But there is a yawning chasm of darkness beneath you, mortals. Vast, endless, and all-consuming' to the newly introduced lore, one could potentially reach the conclusion that the world-soul is long-lost anyway.

Maybe, sounds a bit more like a blackhole/void lord/old god reference.

[Mavick]

Threads like this exist because there are far too many people who cannot use their imagination to fill gaps left by what they read in print, so their only recourse is to take everything super literal and rage incoherently when "the story" isn't how they'd like it to be.

Honestly, what Kosak said is pretty close to exactly what I imagined: Azeroth wouldn't wake up because there were no longer Titans to cultivate it to a full-on Titan itself. Therefor, it would remain in its dormant state lending power to the mortals that inhabited it. I feel that runs pretty lockstep by both what he said and how the game has developed. I don't see how this is actually an issue to anyone.

[KrazyK923]

Threads like this exist because there are far too many people who cannot use their imagination to fill gaps left by what they read in print, so their only recourse is to take everything super literal and rage incoherently when "the story" isn't how they'd like it to be.

Honestly, what Kosak said is pretty close to exactly what I imagined: Azeroth wouldn't wake up because there were no longer Titans to cultivate it to a full-on Titan itself. Therefor, it would remain in its dormant state lending power to the mortals that inhabited it. I feel that runs pretty lockstep by both what he said and how the game has developed. I don't see how this is actually an issue to anyone.

Except it has nothing to do about what I wanted the story to be. How could it have been? We didn't even know about world-souls until the preview came out, and even then had no idea about the entire concept until Chronicle was released.

It had everything to do with Kosak, at the time, retconning the entire Cosmic motivation for the storyline right after they introduced it two weeks ago with Chronicle's release.

[Kryos]

But there are male and female Titans, with gender pronouns and appearances, and I think it would be way cooler if Azeroth were a lady. If only for the sake of variety and the fact that it'd be less predictable than Azeroth being male.

I really don't care and would be ok with that. Aman'Thul was the first Titan and he was alone and found other Titans inside planets in a slumber and he nortured them until they woke up and joined him. So it seems they have no sex at all. Just look like male and female humans.

[Nakotsu]

In which Dave Kosak destroys the far-reaching consequences of the ideas that were JUST introduced in Chronicle Volume 1:



And with a dose of absolute cringey 4th grade writing to boot.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._story/d1asbba

Just fuck it man. This lore is ruined beyond repair.

Edit: Four minutes ago, Kosak then commented this:



https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._story/d1ay8en

This is the man responsible for the lore of this game. This is the man. I don't even know what's going on anymore with the lore writers.

Dude I think your taking too much lore in stride especially since they made it all up and it doesnt actually exist. Maybe just chill and relax.

[Deleted]

Threads like this exist because there are far too many people who cannot use their imagination to fill gaps left by what they read in print, so their only recourse is to take everything super literal and rage incoherently when "the story" isn't how they'd like it to be.

So that's why Blizzard released Warcraft Chronicle, destroying so much headcanon in the first place?

That's the main problem here, Kosak is the main WoW narrative guy, posting his own headcanon on social media goes against what Blizzard intends to do with the Chronicle in the first place.

[Wolfheart9]

Dude I think your taking too much lore in stride especially since they made it all up and it doesnt actually exist. Maybe just chill and relax.

Erm.. by creating the lore, it does exist? It's not in our real world, but it's information people are paying for to get, just like a book. If a book has it's story all muddled and messed up between chapters, it's considered a bad book, which is pretty much what people are saying here.

[TheDestinatus]

I don't know, I am leaning more towards him just revealing a factual truth about the story/game and people just raging because they have been given all this "Cool lore" about planets being titans etc etc and they are rioting because they aren't going to get to see that transformation.

[Deleted]

Dude I think your taking too much lore in stride especially since they made it all up and it doesnt actually exist. Maybe just chill and relax.

Folklore exists by itself, being real or fiction.

[TheDestinatus]

Erm.. by creating the lore, it does exist? It's not in our real world, but it's information people are paying for to get, just like a book. If a book has it's story all muddled and messed up between chapters, it's considered a bad book, which is pretty much what people are saying here.

There are no entitlements to spending money. Two people going to a theme park aren't entitled to the same experience, and when you're talking about written word for a fantasy universe you have no more rights to "lore" then you do from wheres wally.

[Oneirophobia]

The entire Legendary Rogue quest directly implies he's Deathwing's son.

Feel free to pretend he was speaking as just the patriarch of the Black Dragonflight. But the pure quest text very much implies he's Wrathion's son. Until 2013 when Kosak started commenting on it on Twitter.

Yep, the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing at blizz. I'm pretty sure half of what happens in game, Kosak et al don't even look at. They just phone-in the general jist of things to quest developers and away they go. Half the stuff the quest devs come up with is more interesting anyway, unfortunately half of it gets shit on later on by Kosak etc. and retconned.


They should have went with "It was assumed that only Sintharia had ever survived mating with deathwing, turns out so did Nyxondra" but they decided to ruin the entire rogue quest line and say "actually Wrathion is just a random black dragon he isn't the direct child of anyone important, Deathwing is his father in spirit only."

Which diluted the character completely in my opinion.

The "prince" title, even, was totally made up by Wrathion cause he has an ego problem. He's literally just some insignificant peasant dragon that managed to be cured of its taint.

Which also doesn't make any sense in the grand scheme of things, but whatever, I've given up on Wrathion and more or less lumped him in with Medan and Garrosh as "awful poorly iterated nonsense."

[Qualia]

I don't know, I am leaning more towards him just revealing a factual truth about the story/game and people just raging because they have been given all this "Cool lore" about planets being titans etc etc and they are rioting because they aren't going to get to see that transformation.

What he revealed wasn't something unexpected, I think we've had threads / posts theorizing about it weeks ago. Just that a lot of people (not counting reddit crowd) weren't happy due to the timing, place and wording of his post.