Brussels Zaventem airport rocked by two explosions

[Independent voter]

Probably because France ain't bombing them to bring democracy? The reason why African militias/terrorist organizations not targetting anyone is because they are pretty much left alone.

There's no huge slums in Paris and Belgium full of the Lord's Resistance Army members.

Many of Europe's Muslim terrorists were born and raised in Europe, they are native sons.

[THE Bigzoman]

3 people guys.
A religion of 1.6 billion +

Please use common sense. These misguided few do not represent the religion as a whole. Europe really needs to look into why they are being targeted like this. Look at the underlying causes. Also really need to look at how these guys are getting weapons and explosives.

Fear and panic does nothing good.

Islam needs to evolve a bit.

I'm not sure if the Ottoman turk decline was the bad, but Islam comes off like a sheltered child that never saw the real world.

It'll "grow up" as it becomes more popular. Lines of thought, idealogy, and religions evolve.

[Kuntantee]

There's no huge slums in Paris and Belgium full of the Lord's Resistance Army members.

Many of Europe's Muslim terrorists were born and raised in Europe, they are native sons.

Yet ideology propagates. The extremist ideas are baked in ME, the place where Western bombs are dropped.

[Slant]

There, fixed.

Yeah, if only the majority of the Xenophobes thought like you. Unfortunately, they don't. This thread proves it over and over again.

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Ehh, Merkel was too optimistic in how to approach this. The shear volume of people should have been a red flag as you have to ask "where are they going to go, where are they going to get jobs, how much are they going to make, is that enough for them to live on, will they be happy with that, what will they do if they are not happy with that, etc..." even the most optimistic persons smile will break as they dig deeper and deeper into this issue. Unless you completely ignore those questions or helping people out of the kindness of your heart was never the goal in the first place. It's a personal belief, but I think the greatest motivator for the "migrant crisis" was to have a cheap, dispensable workforce. Just like the illegal immigrants from Mexico are to the USA, the migrants are to Europe, why else would they not make sure the immigrants are refugees?

I'm not blaming you or judging you, but you're just in line with everyone else not understanding what being a refugee is legally about. But let's address the points you made:

We have plenty of places to shelter them. All that panick last fall about "the gouvernment trying to force me to give up rooms in my house for refugees" was just mad hysteria. I knew it, most people knew it, but if you look back in the immigration thread on this very forum at that time, you'll notice A SHITTON of posts freaking out about it. What happened? Nothing. Empty hotels and speculative objects owned by banks to drive the housing prices up were appropriated, any why the hell not? Nobody was using the space anyway.

Jobs? Refugees aren't allowed to take jobs. They're allowed to exist, live, breathe and move about. That's it. They're not meant to build a life here. Having a war break out in your home country is never supposed to be the backdoor to legal immigration. That's what people don't get. Asylum seekers are NOT refugees. And refugees are NOT asylum seekers. And neither are actually IMMIGRANTS. Here's the really short breakdown: 1. Refugees flee from war, once the war is over, they're sent back. 2. Asylum seekers are fleeing from more permanent problems, like a gouvernment persecuting them for their religion etc., they intend and are tolerated to stay here for a longer time, perhaps even permanently. Because if your state of persecution exists for 10 years and you've been granted indefinite asylum, at some point it's getting ridiculous to not let you have a chance to build a life here. 3. Immigrants are people that intend to live here from the outset. They don't flee from anything, they don't seek asylum, because their life is pretty okay back in Sudan or wherever, but they have family here, or they fall in love with a German girl or just think Germany is the coolest place on Earth. They don't even get here before the immigration process is well ahead in their home country at the German embassy.

So, when we're talking about the people Merkel let in? They can't work here. They're not stealing anyone's jobs. Not at this stage, anyway. Not for years at least. If their status changes from Refugee to Asylum seekers, that may change. But that is a lengthy process and can take years itself, too. This is LONG down the road. Enough time to adjust them and living spaces to accomodate for the extra numbers.

How much they're going to make? Nothing. They basically live off wellfare, that's the extra cost Merkel and her Finance Minister have been talking about all the time. When people ask "How much are they going to cost us?" this is what they're talking about. Food, clothes, shelter and a small allowance so they can feel human and perhaps buy a few luxuries like a prepaid cell phone card or books or whatever (assuming they get TV from the state).

Will they be happy? Ah, this is where it gets interesting. It's not their job to be happy, it's not our job to make them happy. Again, their only purpose here is to exist without danger to their lives. They do enjoy the basic human rights as long as they're here and we're the host nation. But unlike the USA, happiness is not a human right in our book. Nobody gives a shit if they're happy. They're alive and as far as we're concerned, our responsibility ends right there. If they start rioting because they are unhappy, they will as refugees face consequences. Either they get deported right away, which isn't possible because you'd violate the refugee statutes (kinda pointless to deport a refugee into a country where he'd come right back to you as... yes, a refugee). What happens is they get put into prison, behind lock and bars until their status as refugee is revoked (by the war ending, for example), upon which they will then be deported.

Legally, and theoretically, Merkel had good reasons to be optimistic. The legal and practical mechanics are implemented to deal with this. What's going wrong is the human factor. Personnel being overworked, not knowing what to look for, the public being easy to scare into a mass hysteria, the media exploiting the fuck out of the public concern and further heating up the tensions and fearmongering to generate more paper sales, politicians not knowing when to be politically correct and when to just state the truth plainly, public officials too scared to speculate in public and waiting too long to release information important to the public interest... There are a shitton of things that went wrong, and most if not all of them can be traced back to simple human error. You cannot hardcode into law that a border patrol should be a fierce bulldog treating every refugee with suspicion and doubt. You cannot hardcode into the public to be calm and sensible about this. You cannot hardcode into law for newspapers to reasonably present the facts and stop tainting every news item with their personal agenda (freedom of press etc.).

All of these things are to be taken into consideration and explain why we're in the mess that we're in now. But, having stated all of these, most of us still think it was the right move. Simply based on the fact that Syria was about to become a bloodbath and nobody else, not the US, not Russia, not anyone wanted to help them. And it fell to Turkey and fucking other 3rd world countries to provide the protection that by all intents and purposes should be the US' job to provide, for they cause all of this shit. Always have, since the day they started messing with Iran. Same with Russia and Afghanistan.

So while the two big players keep on duking it out in their proxy wars and don't give two flying shits what mayhem and chaos they cause with it, we're cleaning up the mess they leave behind. Someone has to do it, if the US is not able to find it's humanity with a map and a big X on it, I guess we'll have to find it for them. I just wish we could bill this to the US somehow. They're getting off way too lightly.

And, please do not compare US illegal immigrants from Mexico to this refugee crisis. They are not remotely comparable.

[Kallisto]

And yet 99% of the terrorists are muslims.

Again no, it's been proven in this thread alone that well over 90% of Terrorism in Europe and America is of NON RELIGIOUS ORIGIN.

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/...rorism-europe/ Europe alone, Less than 2% of all terrorist incident is of Islamic origin. Less than 2%. Yes I am repeating it so it goes through the thick skulls of morons who go by the stupid mantra that somehow all terrorism is muslim.

[Grimbold21]

Again no, it's been proven in this thread alone that well over 90% of Terrorism in Europe and America is of NON RELIGIOUS ORIGIN.

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/...rorism-europe/ Europe alone, Less than 2% of all terrorist incident is of Islamic origin. Less than 2%. Yes I am repeating it so it goes through the thick skulls of morons who go by the stupid mantra that somehow all terrorism is muslim.

Im not agreeing or disagreeing with the points of both of you, but mentioning that only 2% of the attacks are of Islamic origin as, apparently, a way to undermine it's importance seems silly to me, since those are the ones that cause the most impact.

I mean, page 8 of the 2013 Interpool report starts by stating:The largest proportion of terrorist attacks in the EU was related to separatist groups,although the number significantly decreased in 2013 compared to previous years. Most separatist incidents,however, were small-scale. Okay, this seems to reinforce your point, but that is followed by: The majority of EU Member States continue to consider religiously inspired terrorism as a major threat, as evidenced by the significant increase in the number of arrests. Two attacks and several disrupted plots in 2013 illustrate this threat. AlQaeda and like-minded terrorist groups abroad continued to encourage self-organised attacks within the EU aiming for indiscriminate casualties.

Now, granted that i didn't read the entire report so feel free to poke some holes, but that seems pretty significant.

[Deleted]

Islam needs to evolve a bit.

I'm not sure if the Ottoman turk decline was the bad, but Islam comes off like a sheltered child that never saw the real world.

It'll "grow up" as it becomes more popular. Lines of thought, idealogy, and religions evolve.

You bomb people they will bomb you back, end of story. Most of you would be doing the same evil shit to defend your countries if they were invaded and/or people of the same race were being rounded up tortured, raped and executed.

[ParanoiD84]

People joining isis over air strikes is the biggest hypocrites, yeah let's join the group who slaughters the most civilians and Muslims BY FAR that will show them, lmao not the brightest people.

[Independent voter]

Native born Belgians, at least two of the attackers, brothers, sons of Algerian immigrants.

[Kallisto]

Im not agreeing or disagreeing with the points of both of you, but mentioning that only 2% of the attacks are of Islamic origin as, apparently, a way to undermine it's importance seems silly to me, since those are the ones that cause the most impact.

I mean, page 8 of the 2013 Interpool report starts by stating:The largest proportion of terrorist attacks in the EU was related to separatist groups,although the number significantly decreased in 2013 compared to previous years. Most separatist incidents,however, were small-scale. Okay, this seems to reinforce your point, but that is followed by: The majority of EU Member States continue to consider religiously inspired terrorism as a major threat, as evidenced by the significant increase in the number of arrests. Two attacks and several disrupted plots in 2013 illustrate this threat. AlQaeda and like-minded terrorist groups abroad continued to encourage self-organised attacks within the EU aiming for indiscriminate casualties.

Now, granted that i didn't read the entire report so feel free to poke some holes, but that seems pretty significant.

It isn't to undermine the importance. ALL terrorism is a threat that needs to be addressed by the authorities. But going around saying "99% of all terrorism is Islamic." Is a myth that needs to be put down every time because it is not only factually wrong but dangerous making it seem that anyone with a muslim name is someone that is planning to kill you. It plays on the us vs them fears that is growing and the victims will be the vast majority of Muslims that want nothing to do with IS/Al Qaeda/Boko Haram etc.

While yes the authorities need to crack down on potential terrorist threats, we need to not jump on bandwagons and realise the best way for the general public to react to these attacks is the age old saying of "Keep calm and carry on." because frankly, not changing the way we are, not falling into fear, loathing, suspicion. To welcome and interact with the vast majority of Muslims that want to live in peace. (Yes yes i know people point x% want Sharia but you ask a load of x religion if they want their religious laws as national laws you'll get same results. Look at christian nut jobs that want 10 commandments as law) That's the best reaction.

[Ulmita]

Probably because France ain't bombing them to bring democracy? The reason why African militias/terrorist organizations not targetting anyone is because they are pretty much left alone.

This.

Start voting properly. Think before you drop that vote please. Vote pro peace! Vote parties that will not allow NATO / USA to destroy more countries. Punish with your stance by not buying products and services the countries that support terrorism like Turkey and S.A. The change you all search will start from changing yourselves.

[ramjb]

Just saw this trending on one of my social medias. This just confirms my desire to vote for Trump. He's going to do great things for this world.

Um how do you resize imags, I never learned.

https://amicitiabellum.files.wordpre...el1fin_sub.jpg
https://amicitiabellum.files.wordpre...2final_sub.jpg

<Mod snip for huge images>

[Mayhem]

Big difference between those Christian militias and groups like ISIS and al Qeada is the Christian militias operate in just one country while Muslim groups have a global reach.

Nobody in France fears an attack from the Lord's Resistance Army.

Yeah, i don´t disagree with that, however that wasn´t the point.

[bufferunderrun]

Yeah, why don´t we stop people befor they commit crimes, that would save so many innocents!

Being a radicalized fucker who support isis and jihad even if you have european nationality is already a crime in my book and going in Syria to fight for isis mark you as an enemy soldier again no matter what is written on your passport.

Because most of the EU does not believe in extrajudicial executions. They haven't exactly been a successful policy for Israel who's only response seems to be to hide behind more and more concrete. We're not looking to build our own tomb.

this naive way of thinking is the source of the problem here, lets leave those fucker alone because hey you can't allow the secret service to kill a bastard but at the same time lets go bomb a city full of civilians and just in case blame all the muslims for those attacks.

[Mayhem]

https://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search...asualties_max=

A rather interesting find to get this a little bit into perspective. Here´s a database about worldwide terrorism since 1970.

Number of incidents per region:
https://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search...asualties_max=
See western europe here? Takes up quite a chunk out of that chart.

Number of fatalities per incident:
https://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search...asualties_max=
Almost half of all incidents since the 70s had no fatalities.

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Being a radicalized fucker who support isis and jihad even if you have european nationality is already a crime in my book and going in Syria to fight for isis mark you as an enemy soldier again no matter what is written on your passport.

Now try to formulate a law that does what you want.

[Detritivores]

What's scary is that a lot of people seem to be supportive of the attacks, or blame them on the people living in the countries that are affected by terrorism instead of on the muslim extremists.

Like The Donald.

[turboether]

Now try to formulate a law that does what you want.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason

These laws already exist and these laws should be upheld given suitable evidence to commit or harbour/obfuscate terrorism. The problem is, of course, gaining the amount of evidence to put it beyond reasonable doubt. The laws made to protect innocent people also protect the guilty, though it is untenable to think of lifting them in normal circumstances and thought crime is completely out of the question.

France certainly found a lot of terrorist cells with caches of weaponry almost immediately under a state of emergency though, which is telling of how many operate in complete freedom even when the governments know about them.

[Jessicka]

Being a radicalized fucker who support isis and jihad even if you have european nationality is already a crime in my book and going in Syria to fight for isis mark you as an enemy soldier again no matter what is written on your passport.

this naive way of thinking is the source of the problem here, lets leave those fucker alone because hey you can't allow the secret service to kill a bastard but at the same time lets go bomb a city full of civilians and just in case blame all the muslims for those attacks.

I wasn't advocating bombing foreign countries either, certainly not to deal with domestic threats.

If you're so damn sure that you have evidence to kill someone pre-emptively, then you clearly have more than enough evidence to arrest them and bring them to trial.

[Notter]

I would word it differently: We are at war with ISIS. They are not going to defeat us military, so their only option is to scare us into backing out.

There are two outcomes they are counting on:
1. We back out and they take over the territory.
2. Muslims here are 'attacked', they radicalize and ISIS gets more educated members.

"But I went there to fight against ISIS!"
That line is the big issue, you cannot really prove they did something wrong.

so what you're saying is, that having muslims in your coutnry is a ticking time-bomb, because they'll feel infringed by your displeasure of their beliefs.
you know.. instead of, like.. supporting their country no matter what, and fighting terrorism.. publicly going against ISIS, having peace rallies..

remind me again why a country should get more of these fundementalist people?

[Mayhem]

so what you're saying is, that having muslims in your coutnry is a ticking time-bomb, because they'll feel infringed by your displeasure of their beliefs.
you know.. instead of, like.. supporting their country no matter what, and fighting terrorism.. publicly going against ISIS, having peace rallies..

remind me again why a country should get more of these fundementalist people?

Wow, you can really read anything into something, pretty impressive and worrysome.