What would be better than setting item level requirement...

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Silver proving grounds has nothing to do with raiding, so no that would not be better.
How bout this.
If you want to enter heroic HFC you must have completed 8/8 gold cm.
That should separate the casuals, as you want for some reason, when it seems you yourself are in this boat.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Silver proving grounds has nothing to do with raiding, so no that would not be better.
How bout this.
If you want to enter heroic HFC you must have completed 8/8 gold cm.
That should separate the casuals, as you want for some reason, when it seems you yourself are in this boat.

???? Not even sure what you're talking about here. I wasn't talking about raiding. I was talking about mythic dungeons and players applying to mythic groups when they weren't qualified to queue for heroics. I never said anything about separating the casuals (yes I am one). I was talking about separating players who haven't developed basic competency with the spec they are playing.

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Since the proving grounds is actually easiest with an item level around 600-615 i guess this is useless. also to remind you of this: proving grounds is a series of 1 minute dps checks. and it is not about doing maximum dps, but to react on the enemies that will come next wave. as such you specc differently as you would in a raid.

How would that make it useless? For this purpose? Proving Grounds (dps) is mostly about target priority and fight mechanics. For purposes of screening group applicants, it is a test of basic problem solving and knowing which of your buttons do what. We're not testing for admission to a hard core raid team here; we just want to know if a player is competent to fill their role in a pug.

[Tuesdays]

I think anything beyond LFR/Normal/reg. dungeon, should be tied to guilds only, and additionally tie difficulty to reputation withing that guild.

[Alvito]

Silver proving grounds has nothing to do with raiding, so no that would not be better.
How bout this.
If you want to enter heroic HFC you must have completed 8/8 gold cm.
That should separate the casuals, as you want for some reason, when it seems you yourself are in this boat.

That would be worse then attunements for some raids and servers. It would wreck bringing in alts and rerolls too. There are plenty of mythic raiders without any cm runs much less golds.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

This is really all that needs to be said. If you hate the group finder and the groups you get there find and join a guild that fits. This is no different than telling undergreard people to make their own groups - it's ultimately on you, the player.

I don't hate the group finder. And most of the players I find using it are fine. Most of my pugs go fine. I think you're missing my point entirely.

Look - I used my 100 boost from preordering Legion to break my rogue out of mothballs. Hadn't played him since Cataclysm. Half his action bars were empty because so much had changed. I couldn't remember which abilities were combo-point builders and which were finishers. He did have plenty of gear. Bags full of balefuls sent to him by his uncle tank who gets satchels every day. I was 700+ almost immediately. But did I have any business queuing for a group?

What I did instead was look at Icy Veins, knock about doing some daily quests, and then queue for Proving Grounds. Failed the first couple of attempts because I still wasn't using my abilities well (no Blade Flurry on a combat rogue? when attacking a group? How derp is that?). By the time I completed it though, I had things sorted well enough to be useful. Not elite, but useful. Did my daily heroic dungeon and pulled 40k. Not special but not embarrassing. Went on to do some mythic dungeons where I managed around 50k. Reasonable output for most casual groups.

That's all I'm asking. Doesn't even have to be proving grounds, but PG is convenient because you can do it without bothering others, there are plenty of guides, and passing it requires a basic level of mental competence. Doesn't require eliteness, but we're not testing for eliteness. We just want competent and useful.

[The One Percent]

Make proving grounds work like greater rifts in Diablo 3, gear matters but skill can help you get the most out of your gear even if it is slightly lower.

Will never catch on because too many people who got carried to their gear don't want their true skill exposed.

[cFortyfive]

I can't believe there are people that still think Proving Grounds matter

What does matter in that context even mean ? they are a place to learn basic principles of wow pve mechanics in a rather safe space which something people really love these days. Not more and not less.

[Granyala]

You know we never use to have item lvl back in the day. Yes people might look at ur gear but overall it was a skill check if you couldnt produce you wouldnt go far.

No, we had Gear score, which was the same thing.
Before that we had "need full Tx".

I tank my mythic dungeon runs on Thursday nights. In Shadowmoon this week I had a hunter keep pulling threat and I can't figure it out. I mean, at 727 you don't expect threat issues from anyone. I asked if he had a pet on growl (hadn't seen one, but I'm scratching my head here), but he assured me he was MM and not using a pet. After he dies on first boss, he gets motivated to figure it out himself. "What's this 'Distracting Shot'? Maybe that shouldn't be part of my rotation..." <facepalm>

BWAHAHAHA

[Arganis]

Using something like 'proving grounds' but in a much more meaningful way.

[clevin]

I don't hate the group finder. And most of the players I find using it are fine. Most of my pugs go fine. I think you're missing my point entirely.

Look - I used my 100 boost from preordering Legion to break my rogue out of mothballs. Hadn't played him since Cataclysm. Half his action bars were empty because so much had changed. I couldn't remember which abilities were combo-point builders and which were finishers. He did have plenty of gear. Bags full of balefuls sent to him by his uncle tank who gets satchels every day. I was 700+ almost immediately. But did I have any business queuing for a group?

What I did instead was look at Icy Veins, knock about doing some daily quests, and then queue for Proving Grounds. Failed the first couple of attempts because I still wasn't using my abilities well (no Blade Flurry on a combat rogue? when attacking a group? How derp is that?). By the time I completed it though, I had things sorted well enough to be useful. Not elite, but useful. Did my daily heroic dungeon and pulled 40k. Not special but not embarrassing. Went on to do some mythic dungeons where I managed around 50k. Reasonable output for most casual groups.

That's all I'm asking. Doesn't even have to be proving grounds, but PG is convenient because you can do it without bothering others, there are plenty of guides, and passing it requires a basic level of mental competence. Doesn't require eliteness, but we're not testing for eliteness. We just want competent and useful.

You say it yourself... most things are fine. If most things are fine, why bother changing much? I mean, sure, they could give a control to filter for people with, say, silver PG... but while that sounds easy, it requires backend work to implement and... why, if things are mostly fine?

[slime]

Silver proving grounds has nothing to do with raiding, so no that would not be better.
How bout this.
If you want to enter heroic HFC you must have completed 8/8 gold cm.
That should separate the casuals, as you want for some reason, when it seems you yourself are in this boat.

So proving grounds has nothing to do with raiding, but challenge modes do? lol... ok.

[lightofdawn]

if wow could integrate with warcraftlogs so we could only request people over a certain percentile per fight that would be ideal imo

[anaxie]

Must be in a top 100 Region guild before touching me.

That is my requirments

[Eleccybubb]

Simple. Make your own damn group.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

You say it yourself... most things are fine. If most things are fine, why bother changing much? I mean, sure, they could give a control to filter for people with, say, silver PG... but while that sounds easy, it requires backend work to implement and... why, if things are mostly fine?

Because we can always work at making things better?

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Really it's not a big deal. I already admitted on page two of this thread that I'd forgotten you can see whether they've passed proving grounds if you review applicants instead of setting auto-accept. So that's what I do now. If there was a box to check for proving grounds, even if it meant not setting an item-level requirement, I'd probably check that box and set auto-accept. I'm geared enough to carry folks. I just prefer to help those who are making a good-faith effort to learn their specs before asking to join groups.

[crazyman2]

Just throwing this out there without thinking it over but
Bring back attunements, and possibly make them somewhat challenging? (something like completing a CM with no wipes, regardless of time).
Thinking something like the Magtheridon attunement quest in shattered halls, but with a less forgiving timer, you could wipe 2 or 3 times and still clear that one.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I will say, to those who've been arguing that Proving Grounds don't mean anything, that I finally got my hunter to 100 tonight and... one-shot them without trying. Like 10x easier than either of my melee dps. Are all ranged that much easier? I was finishing with 20 seconds to spare even when I didn't manage my shots well.

Blizz could do a better job of balancing between melee and ranged, and maybe add in some classic class-specific challenges. For hunters, there should be the possibility of pulling extra adds from edges of room if Multi-shot or Barrage are aimed badly, and the possibility that mobs will start fighting back if pet is on growl.

Just sayin'

[Deleted]

Proving Grounds wave 50 to enter normal HFC/ mythic dungeons and wave 100 to enter Heroic, seems fair.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Proving Grounds wave 50 to enter normal HFC/ mythic dungeons and wave 100 to enter Heroic, seems fair.

I think you'd limit yourself too much. How many players want to do 50 waves of proving grounds? Even if they can? It's fairly repetitive. I generally get in, get my silver, and move on to stuff I enjoy more.

Mad kudos to those who master it more, but I don't know how many you'd be able to find who had bothered to do 50 or 100 waves.

[Granyala]

I will say, to those who've been arguing that Proving Grounds don't mean anything, that I finally got my hunter to 100 tonight and... one-shot them without trying. Like 10x easier than either of my melee dps. Are all ranged that much easier? I was finishing with 20 seconds to spare even when I didn't manage my shots well.

Hunter and lock are both extreme faceroll if you know how to handle your pet.

SPriest was decent, back when AoE was actually weak. Now it's probably faceroll too.
I don't think I ever did PG on my mage though.... if I did it must have been a pretty forgettable experience.

Proving Grounds wave 50 to enter normal HFC/ mythic dungeons and wave 100 to enter Heroic, seems fair.

There is no way I would put up with that kind of shit.