Ukrainian lawyer of captured Russian soldiers found dead

[baskev]

Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
1. Nope i mean ALL the laywers, ex spie's, and politicians they kill in russia because they have something to say againts/about putin.
Oh, a set of one then? Or maybe you can say names other then Nemtsov?

2. yes i could find the english word for it. bla bla....just stated facts..they get supported by russian oriented chechens.
"Most rebels are Chechens" and "rebels are supported by Chechens" are quite different claims.


3. Again get real. western world would not do that. they ( politicians) are to much cowards for that.
Don't do what exactly? Don't give you any money?

You can respond all you want. But it will not change the facts.
You seem to lack knowledge of facts sadly.

1. alexander litvinenko, Alexander Khodzinsky,Kazbek Gekkiev,Timur Kuashev Valeryin Donskoy , Anna Politkovskaya to name a few. Boris Nemtsov indeed is also one. And these are only the ones i know by name. https://larussophobe.wordpress.com/putinmurders/

2. Twisting words are we. Not falling for that. Allot of the rebels ARE Chenchens. They supported AND are a part of the problem there.

3. Again twisting words. They will not kill. They are cowards and spineless. The worse they do is call each other dogs....
And give them money to kill people.....are you insane. Thats the dictators way of doing stuff.

I seem to lack knowledge??? Nope i do my research. And not a fanboy of putin and russia like you are ( or hater of western world as you are)(by the looks of it).

[Ripster42]

The funny thing is they even did not charged him with corruption or anything else. They only do big mouth talk. Technically Yanukovich was president of Ukraine until March of 30th, 2014th. Btw, technically, current “president” may claim he is in office one year more because of that. We will see in a year.

So why doesn't he go back to his homeland? Again, there's not much point in having a show trial to try someone in absentia.

[Sky High]

So it's willful ignorance.

Nope! I just refuse to trust you as an unbiased voice in this. Be sure to take it personally.

[Hound Archon]

So why doesn't he go back and rule ukraine? Is it because they'll actually bother to impeach him then and then charge him with this corruption?

Because the new government named him traitor to the state, enemy of the people and threatened him with capital punishment.

[Ripster42]

Because the new government named him traitor to the state, enemy of the people and threatened him with capital punishment.

Uh huh. So the argument is that they didn't impeach him. Looks like they did a lot more than that.

[Hound Archon]

Uh huh. So the argument is that they didn't impeach him. Looks like they did a lot more than that.

Yep. So much for the legal procedure and Ukrainian constitution. Need I say the new government is just as corrupt, if not more, than the old one? It is very sad.

[Shalcker]

So why doesn't he go back and rule ukraine? Is it because they'll actually bother to impeach him then and then charge him with this corruption?

In fact Yanukovich and his family were reportedly suing Ukraine over sanctions in October 2015, and last week were reported winning their case, with EU court obliging Ukraine to pay them 240 000 $ as compensation for EU sanctions...

So, it appears "charging with corruption" thing was just rhetorical and never actually materialized.

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1. alexander litvinenko, Alexander Khodzinsky,Kazbek Gekkiev,Timur Kuashev Valeryin Donskoy , Anna Politkovskaya to name a few. Boris Nemtsov indeed is also one. And these are only the ones i know by name. https://larussophobe.wordpress.com/putinmurders/

That's what, one every two years even if you believe each and every one is done on Putin's direct order? Every three?

How does it compare to 10-20 a year for Ukraine?
Hell, remember Muzichko (Sashko Beliy)? Two years since his murder by Avakov goons happened recently... things obviously went downhill from there.

2. Twisting words are we. Not falling for that. Allot of the rebels ARE Chenchens. They supported AND are a part of the problem there.

Chechens live everywhere, they are not confined to Chechnya.

Also, Chechens aren't magical warriors that can be everywhere all the time. Majority of rebels are local.

3. Again twisting words. They will not kill. They are cowards and spineless. The worse they do is call each other dogs....
And give them money to kill people.....are you insane. Thats the dictators way of doing stuff.

Again, West just gives them money "to fight Russians", and then they go and "eliminate" opposition (or those who try to expose their corruption). By whatever means they see fit.

[FireVoodoo]

So why doesn't he go back to his homeland? Again, there's not much point in having a show trial to try someone in absentia.

It’s like… ..Imagine, you go back in time, like in Nov. 1963, warn Kennedy that elements in CIA, FBI, military-industrial complex are going to kill him in Dallas, show him Zapruder movie, he flies somewhere in Switzerland, and then you ask him why wouldn’t he go back to “Homeland?” Well because Yanukovich was warned, he was going to be assassinated, because prime minister’s car was shot, because he is not a martyr, he is just yet another Ukrainian oligarch with tons of money, he would rather live than die, that’s why.
Actually, that’s such a silly question. You can’t be serious asking it

[Ripster42]

It’s like… ..Imagine, you go back in time, like in Nov. 1963, warn Kennedy that elements in CIA, FBI, military-industrial complex are going to kill him in Dallas, show him Zapruder movie, he flies somewhere in Switzerland, and then you ask him why wouldn’t he go back to “Homeland?” Well because Yanukovich was warned, he was going to be assassinated, because prime minister’s car was shot, because he is not a martyr, he is just yet another Ukrainian oligarch with tons of money, he would rather live than die, that’s why.
Actually, that’s such a silly question. You can’t be serious asking it

Of course I'm not serious in asking it. He became a pariah in his own country. If he went back to ukraine they'd actually try him for corruption. It's pretty impossible to say you're still the leader of a country when you 1) flee the country, 2) if you ever return you're going to be arrested, 3) your term was over anyway if you'd stayed in the country.

If you're not sure, this whole line goes back to someone saying yan is still the rightful pres of ukraine.

[Shalcker]

Of course I'm not serious in asking it. He became a pariah in his own country. If he went back to ukraine they'd actually try him for corruption. It's pretty impossible to say you're still the leader of a country when you 1) flee the country, 2) if you ever return you're going to be arrested, 3) your term was over anyway if you'd stayed in the country.

That doesn't stop Saudi Arabia from trying to prop up ousted president in Yemen (with basically everything you're saying matching)...

If you're not sure, this whole line goes back to someone saying yan is still the rightful pres of ukraine.

Not "rightful", simply "legal" president. According to Ukrainian laws that noone is bothering to uphold.

[Ripster42]

That doesn't stop Saudi Arabia from trying to prop up ousted president in Yemen...

Not "rightful", simply "legal" president. According to Ukrainian laws that noone is bothering to uphold.

What's your point about saudi arabia? I'm not sure I'd equate russia with a place many people feel is a shit hole if you're trying make russia look good here.

His term would be up anyway as of last month so he's not the rightful or legal president anymore no matter if he'd stayed or not.

[baskev]

In fact Yanukovich and his family were reportedly suing Ukraine over sanctions in October 2015, and last week were reported winning their case, with EU court obliging Ukraine to pay them 240 000 $ as compensation for EU sanctions...

So, it appears "charging with corruption" thing was just rhetorical and never actually materialized.

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That's what, one every two years even if you believe each and every one is done on Putin's direct order? Every three?

How does it compare to 10-20 a year for Ukraine?
Hell, remember Muzichko (Sashko Beliy)? Two years since his murder by Avakov goons happened recently... things obviously went downhill from there.

Chechens live everywhere, they are not confined to Chechnya.

Also, Chechens aren't magical warriors that can be everywhere all the time. Majority of rebels are local.

Again, West just gives them money "to fight Russians", and then they go and "eliminate" opposition (or those who try to expose their corruption). By whatever means they see fit.

Lol you are funny. You are really a word twister are you not. Making stuff up/twisting things to your liking. I said those are the ones i know from the back of my head ( its a saying, meaning without putting much tought or research into it). So if i would do some research i will no doubt find more.

http://en.apa.az/xeber_sashko_beliy_...d__209001.html You mean this guy wanted by both party's for murder of atleast 20 russian soldiers...???? And yes it could look like a bad arrest, or a planned arest/murder. ill give you that.

Chechen's live everywhere...really thats your response? And they are indeed not magic. Both if i see proof of them being there. And being there on mass.

And the money you mean the money to pay the gas bills of russia??? And again eliminate opposition....we are not some dictator ship like you think we are.

You are really insane. Thinking that. Believing in james bond like assassins that kill all our enemy's....if that where so allot more people would be dead. Do you really think we want to waste more money in a other country like that?? we are paying for the middle east and there problems with their refugee's. We are paying for the greeks because they can not vote and voted for a government who did some idiotic economic moves.

[Shalcker]

Lol you are funny. You are really a word twister are you not. Making stuff up/twisting things to your liking. I said those are the ones i know from the back of my head ( its a saying, meaning without putting much tought or research into it). So if i would do some research i will no doubt find more.

No doubt? Well, it's quite obvious you "do not doubt" your propaganda.

But you should doubt. Because you clearly have no idea :P

http://en.apa.az/xeber_sashko_beliy_...d__209001.html You mean this guy wanted by both party's for murder of atleast 20 russian soldiers...???? And yes it could look like a bad arrest, or a planned arest/murder. ill give you that.

"Bad arrest" where he was shot in the heart twice with his hands tied behind his back? Yeah, right.

And those former Party of Regions officials in Winter/Spring 2015? It was totally suicide! All 10 of them, each and every one!

And Buzina died totally not because he was critical of government actions... so much for "freedom of press".

Chechen's live everywhere...really thats your response? And they are indeed not magic. Both if i see proof of them being there. And being there on mass.

"In mass" - how many exactly do you think are there? Thousands? Tens of thousands?

And the money you mean the money to pay the gas bills of russia??? And again eliminate opposition....we are not some dictator ship like you think we are.

Yes, you're oligarchy. And yes, you eliminate opposition.

Believing in james bond like assassins that kill all our enemy's

That's your own delusions. No, truth is much more simple then that.

[Ripster42]

No doubt? Well, it's quite obvious you "do not doubt" your propaganda.

But you should doubt. Because you clearly have no idea :P

"Bad arrest" where he was shot in the heart twice with his hands tied behind his back? Yeah, right.

And those former Party of Regions officials in Winter/Spring 2015? It was totally suicide! All 10 of them, each and everyone!

"In mass" - how many exactly do you think are there? Thousands? Tens of thousands?

Yes, you're oligarchy. And yes, you eliminate opposition.

You are really insane. Thinking that. Believing in james bond like assassins that kill all our enemy's....if that where so allot more people would be dead. Do you really think we want to waste more money in a other country like that?? we are paying for the middle east and there problems with their refugee's. We are paying for the greeks because they can not vote and voted for a government who did some idiotic economic moves.

So you're saying russia doesn't employ assassins to kill people? You really sure you wanna say that? I'm not even ballsy enough to say that about my own country, let alone one we know has used pollonium to assassinate someone.

[Hound Archon]

His term would be up anyway as of last month so he's not the rightful or legal president anymore no matter if he'd stayed or not.

That doesn't make the current administration any more legal, though. It came into power by violating the constitution.

[Ripster42]

That doesn't make the current administration any more legal, though. It came into power by violating the constitution.

Have they held elections since they came into power? I honestly don't know.

[baskev]

No doubt? Well, it's quite obvious you "do not doubt" your propaganda.

But you should doubt. Because you clearly have no idea :P

"Bad arrest" where he was shot in the heart twice with his hands tied behind his back? Yeah, right.

And those former Party of Regions officials in Winter/Spring 2015? It was totally suicide! All 10 of them, each and everyone!

"In mass" - how many exactly do you think are there? Thousands? Tens of thousands?

Yes, you're oligarchy. And yes, you eliminate opposition.

You are really insane. Thinking that. Believing in james bond like assassins that kill all our enemy's....if that where so allot more people would be dead. Do you really think we want to waste more money in a other country like that?? we are paying for the middle east and there problems with their refugee's. We are paying for the greeks because they can not vote and voted for a government who did some idiotic economic moves.

[/QUOTE]


Lol....MR word twister :P. Let me put it in words you understand. If i look, i will find more dead people who opposed etc Russia's current leadership.

propaganda means: Making/twisting news to get people to your cause. I am not twisting news. I state facts: Person a t/m z has some thing bad to say about Russia's leadership and they end up with posion, gun shots etc etc etc etc.

as for the bad arrest part....do you even read what other people write down??? I said it could be bad arrest, or resisting arrest. There are some reports of what you said. And some reports where he shot at the cops while running away. Unlike you. I do not buy into propaganda......

Party of regions officials?? i can not find info that fast. But if 10 of them die. Its most likely murder. But if it happens to "our side" its not. Atleast that is what you are going to say. Because that has been your response to everything.

If she is right...about 50 to 75% of the rebels their are chechens. With russian gear.

We are not a oligarchy....because if our government does not suit us...we do not vote for them. And they are without a job. In several multi party systems in europa its normal to see party's going from 1/3 of the seats in Parliament to 1/8. Russia now thats a oligarchy....putin in power for the last decade. All the money at the top.

[Hound Archon]

Have they held elections since they came into power? I honestly don't know.

Kind of. Didn't hold them in the separatist areas of Donetsk, Luhansk and Donbass because of all the artillery fire (they did not agree with the coup and wanted to join Russia the way Crimea did, but Moscow refused, so they declared independence instead). I am not sure if the results are legal or not if half the country never voted because it was being shelled by the other half.

[FireVoodoo]

Have they held elections since they came into power? I honestly don't know.

They kinda "had" elections. However, keep in mind those elections were worse than infamous “third tour” after the 1st Maidan in 2005. They “held” elections like ones in Krivoy Rog right now (third tour yet again). 2nd Maidan, burning ppl alive in Odessa, shellings of eastern Ukraine cities (50 k killed according to German intel) got some influence you know. Historically (for the last 2 decades) Ukraine is roughly divided in half into “pro-Eastern” and “pro-Western” parts so to speak. Civil war initiated by right wing Ukrainian nationalists, wild propaganda efforts, political killings like the one we discuss here, greatly demoralized eastern Ukrainian politicians and common folks alike. Now balance shifted greatly, results of those elections (highly rigged and disputed even by some pro-western political parties like “Svoboda”) do not represent public opinion at all, that’s why they do not want to held parliamentary elections despite political crisis and stalemate in current “parliament”. I mean current “pro-western” junta government is absolutely hated by most Ukrainians as of right now. Obama is beloved leader compared to Poroshenko and especially Yatsenyuk

[Shalcker]

So you're saying russia doesn't employ assassins to kill people?

It hasn't been proven as modus operandi of Russian government.

Russian oligarchs did it though without any doubt; Berezovskiy had Politkovskaya killed, Khodorkovrsky had mayor of town where he was supposed to pay taxes killed by his employee Pichugin (because that mayor actually wanted them paid!), and Lugovoi was also in employ of Russian oligarchs at the moment of Litvinenko death.

So, if necessary deaths can be arranged, if in a bit roundabout ways.

You really sure you wanna say that? I'm not even ballsy enough to say that about my own country, let alone one we know has used pollonium to assassinate someone.

Litvinenko most likely was killed. However connection of that death to Russian intelligence services/government is tenuous at best.

Check this legal analysis of last inquiry.