Which Overwatch heroes would you make gay/lesbian/bi/attack helicopter?

[Obelisk Kai]

This is true, but I'm wondering why it's such a big deal to force this into the game rather than just wait for it to happen by Blizzard (if it does). Some people just want it to be in everything, some people want nothing to do with it. Why the push?

I wager you already the answer. Without explicitly stating it, people will automatically assume everyone is heterosexual. More to the point, they will then tend to leap down the throats of anyone who attempts to speculate about the sexuality of a character by saying there is no evidence to support their potential homosexuality and that it exists only in the minds of those who wish for it to be there.

We see this quite regularly in WoW when people bring up Anduin and Wrathion for example.

So, it is the attitude of the people who don't wish to see it which makes it all the more imperative that character's sexuality is displayed...because those who don't wish to see it aren't in favor of 'neutrality'. As discussed, in a story where sexuality is left opaque, everyone assumes every character is default hetero. At that point, it becomes exclusionary.

As to why it is necessary to be done...well, sexuality is an intrinsic part of who we are. It is one of the defining aspects of our humanity. You cannot make a good character without determining their sexuality. That isn't even just a matter of who they are attracted to, but what quirks turn them on, what they are interested in...what they pursue. In the majority of cases, the answer will be the character is heterosexual. In a few though, the character will be LGBTQ.

[Deleted]

But it is... just because it isn't getting press coverage doesn't mean it is/wasn't news. My entire point here... is if its in the story fine. But the very fact they have to announce, "Oh and btw we have a gay character." Why can't he just be gay... why do we need to point it out?

They didn't announce it. Someone at Blizzcon asked if there would be any gay characters and they said "yeah, multiple actually. But we're going to let that unfold naturally." That was it. Blizzard didn't make a big deal out of it but you can't stop gay fans from being happy about the news.

Its like when J.K. Rowling came out and said she always imagined Albus Dumbledore as being gay. and... how does that effect the story in any way shape or form? Why does it even need to be said?

Well this is actually a specific example around which there was some controversy. A lot of gay people aren't overly happy with JK announcing Dumbledore's sexuality outside the story because they saw it as her trying to get "progressive points" without actually writing about gay representation. But at the same time it was actually pretty relevant to the plot - Dumbledore's relationship with Grindleward was a huge part of his backstory.

I don't define myself by my sexuality... if I was getting to know you (Protar) I wouldn't ever ask, or assume gay or straight. You could be transgender. I wouldn't know. It also wouldn't effect our relationship because it wouldn't be how I define you as a person. Why do you want to be normal? What is normal? Normal is boring... But regardless, homosexuality is normal... brown hair is normal... light skin, dark skin... its normal.

Well I don't identify myself solely on my sexuality. There are a million other things that I am. But at the same time it is a part of my identity. If we were friends it wouldn't be the first thing I mention to you, but it would come up eventually. I think it is a little naive to speak from your - presumably heterosexual - viewpoint and say that one's sexuality is a complete non issue. It is an issue, for a lot of people. When I say we want to be seen as normal I mean that I want to stop LGBTQIA folks being bullied, having their rights taken away, sometimes even killed. Media portrayal is vital to normalisation in our media immersed culture.

Are we/they writing a piece of fiction? Or are we writing an allegory? Is the intent to entertain or tackle social issues?

Why not both? Fiction has always been used to disseminate ideas, push agendas and deliver allegories. And that's a good thing. The best stories both entertain and then deliver and idea and make you think.

Don't think I didn't notice how you gloss over what would representative of myself... and how that wouldn't be a fun character. What do I get? Roadhog? I don't identify with that.

Well I have no idea who you are so I can't say whether you're being represented in the media or not.

Again why? I can't think of story (particularly a video game) that had a decent romance subplot. It would almost be better if it just didn't exist.

Force Unleashed: Starkiller/Juno
God of War: You know he had wife/kids (now dead) and then of course a hetero sex scene each and every game... [but honestly does it need to be there? does it contribute to the story? I never see any of this elements as the cherry on top... the last thing the game needed to make it complete. "You know what... I just feel like its missing something... lets add a minigame of Kratos fucking offscreen"]

Well...that's just your opinion. Millions of people love romance stories, even in stories that aren't romance dedicated. Romance is part of life. Fiction, no matter how fantastical it gets, reflects life. Ergo it should have romance and some of that romance should be between people of the same sex.

I guess I can't speak for THIS game. But if we are going to require or demand that every work of fiction from here on out is a reflection of census data, and has a correct ratio of "minorities" then you inevitably going to end up with token characters because writers will begin to resent the fact that so much of their fantasy is being dictated to them.

Who said anything about requiring anything? Did I mention census data? Blizzard are including diverse characters quite voluntarily.

BOLD: This is really my entire point here. Do we need to know? Gay or straight does it effect the story? Gameplay? No... then why expand on it?

You also never addressed how it effected the story/gameplay when sexual orientation had nothing to do with the game... CoD... Halo...

It affects the story if the writers say it does. It's that simple. If there's a story where sexuality is completely irrelevant then there's no need to go into it. But if the writers decide to write a romance subplot then obviously the character's sexuality is going to come up. Just because you personally dislike romance stories, doesn't mean it's pointless.

[LiiLoSNK]

Girls: Zarya obvious lesbian. Total butch. I could see Pharah/Mercy being obnoxiously strict parents in a lesbo couple. I wouldn't be surprised if Mei was bi.

Guys: Lucio is pretty gay. And then Roadhog might be bi since he seems like he's down for sex with anyone/any thing with the whole "bondage gimp" look.

None of the rest are dead giveaways. Winston probably has a reverse bestiality fetish for humans.

[Obelisk Kai]

Girls: Zarya obvious lesbian. Total butch. I could see Pharah/Mercy being obnoxiously strict parents in a lesbo couple. I wouldn't be surprised if Mei was bi.

Guys: Lucio is pretty gay. And then Roadhog might be bi since he seems like he's down for sex with anyone/any thing with the whole "bondage gimp" look.

None of the rest are dead giveaways. Winston probably has a reverse bestiality fetish for humans.

I disagree about Zarya and would be a disappointed if that was the case. Because it is so stereotypical, as you said she's the 'obvious' one. Not to mention that they've already made the tough, strong, muscular woman Russian...which is also a bit of stereotype (Mother Russia in Kick Ass 2 is another example of this trope).

Zarya should not be a walking tropefest.

Your other examples I could definitely see with the exception of Roadhog.

[LiiLoSNK]

It's too stereotypical to not bee true though. Super buff with a pink uppercut hairstyle. I imagine her as the type of person that if we were in the same locker room after some rec league sports game, she'd be talking about where we should go for the best chicks and beer.

[A dot Ham]

Well this is actually a specific example around which there was some controversy. A lot of gay people aren't overly happy with JK announcing Dumbledore's sexuality outside the story because they saw it as her trying to get "progressive points" without actually writing about gay representation. But at the same time it was actually pretty relevant to the plot - Dumbledore's relationship with Grindleward was a huge part of his backstory.

I actually didn't read the books... as for the film I don't think it would have made an iota of a difference.

Well I don't identify myself solely on my sexuality. There are a million other things that I am. But at the same time it is a part of my identity. If we were friends it wouldn't be the first thing I mention to you, but it would come up eventually. I think it is a little naive to speak from your - presumably heterosexual - viewpoint and say that one's sexuality is a complete non issue. It is an issue, for a lot of people. When I say we want to be seen as normal I mean that I want to stop LGBTQIA folks being bullied, having their rights taken away, sometimes even killed. Media portrayal is vital to normalisation in our media immersed culture.

Media portrayal is a reflection of society. Change society and the media will follow... not the other way around.

Well I have no idea who you are so I can't say whether you're being represented in the media or not.

It wasn't a question about whether I am, or whether I'm not. It was a question about entertainment... my "Avatar" or representation of myself would not be marketable, not fun, not interesting. Why would I want myself represented there? Why should those creating content represent me? Hypothetically speaking, society views homosexuality as normal... so why expand upon that? How does that make a fun or interesting story?

Well...that's just your opinion. Millions of people love romance stories, even in stories that aren't romance dedicated. Romance is part of life. Fiction, no matter how fantastical it gets, reflects life. Ergo it should have romance and some of that romance should be between people of the same sex.

Now hold up... I never said I didn't like romance. I love "chick flicks" LOVE them... more than my wife does. SciFi, Fantasy, Action... and romance. Those are my favorite genres...
I mentioned specific examples of poor and insignificant additions of romance subplots that really did nothing, and had no effect on story or gameplay.

Who said anything about requiring anything? Did I mention census data? Blizzard are including diverse characters quite voluntarily.

Less they be accused of bigotry. Its trendy right now... No one is being forced to include minorities. But, if you aren't voluntarily doing so, you are eventually going to be ridiculed for it. Look at what J.J. Abrams is doing with his film studio. He is doing just that. Affirmative action everywhere...

It affects the story if the writers say it does. It's that simple. If there's a story where sexuality is completely irrelevant then there's no need to go into it. But if the writers decide to write a romance subplot then obviously the character's sexuality is going to come up. Just because you personally dislike romance stories, doesn't mean it's pointless.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. But going back to Dumbledore I don't see his sexuality as being relevant, and thus didn't need to be said.

[Deleted]

Media portrayal is a reflection of society. Change society and the media will follow... not the other way around.

I disagree. I think that the feedback goes both ways. Movements spring up in society in response to injustices or controversies and one of the ways to push those movements forward is through fiction and the media.

It wasn't a question about whether I am, or whether I'm not. It was a question about entertainment... my "Avatar" or representation of myself would not be marketable, not fun, not interesting. Why would I want myself represented there? Why should those creating content represent me? Hypothetically speaking, society views homosexuality as normal... so why expand upon that? How does that make a fun or interesting story?

Well call me crazy but I think that writing about characters from diverse walks of life is interesting. Now I don't know who you are so I have no idea why you seem to think that a character like you would be uninteresting. Why not?

Now hold up... I never said I didn't like romance. I love "chick flicks" LOVE them... more than my wife does. SciFi, Fantasy, Action... and romance. Those are my favorite genres...
I mentioned specific examples of poor and insignificant additions of romance subplots that really did nothing, and had no effect on story or gameplay.

Well you were sounding a lot like you were just trashing entirely on romance. But my point still stands - whether a romance is pointless or not is incredibly subjective. Unless the focus of a story is incredibly narrow I pretty much always like a good romance subplot because that reflects real life.

Less they be accused of bigotry. Its trendy right now...

Just as interracial marriage starting becoming trendy. Or female voting. Social progress is not "a trend." Plus you're acting like gay representation is great in the media. It's getting better but it's still fairly abysmal. How many gay leads are there? Blizzard could have no LGBTQIA characters in OW and while there would be a minority complaining, it would cause them no large controversy.

No one is being forced to include minorities. But, if you aren't voluntarily doing so, you are eventually going to be ridiculed for it. Look at what J.J. Abrams is doing with his film studio. He is doing just that. Affirmative action everywhere...

Well I don't think anyone should be forced to include gay characters either. But that then begs the question - if your story has no gay characters, why is that? Now it could be just that the writer happened not to think about including gay characters, and that's fine if there is a limited cast. But Blizzard's franchises are all expansive settings with dozens, even hundreds of named character. The fact that not once did they think to put in an explicitly non-straight character across thousands of total characters troubles me a lot.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. But going back to Dumbledore I don't see his sexuality as being relevant, and thus didn't need to be said.

Well again, in the books it would have been very relevant to mention it. It's a huge part of Dumbledore's character (which the movies did a poor job of going into) and that's where the controversy stemmed from: it would have been perfectly natural to just state outright that Dumbly loved Grindleward but instead Rowling just tweeted about it.

Anyway. I think in general this attitude that a character's sexuality must be relevant to be bought up is very damaging. Fiction is based on real life and in real life we do not have the sexualities we do for any particular purpose. We just happen to be what we are. So I think it's very important that in fiction the same is true. Like yes we need stories about being gay or bi or trans* etc. but we also need stories where that's just a passing thing.

[Deleted]

This also reminds me of retards who complained about Witcher games being "too white" - well, sorry, we didn't had black people in medieval Poland :PPPPPP. It's a game based on local, Slavic and pagan myths.

So yeah.. if a game doesn't have representation of some sort of minority (being it sexual or racial) it doesn't mean developers are homophobes or racists - sometimes it just fits the setting - that's it.

Also, when games try "too hard" to appease this retarded progressive movement they end up looking pretty stupid. And I hope we will be able to put people in to jails for committing affirmative action - I don't think there is a thing in the world as discriminatory as hiring someone JUST because they have skin color or "gender" that a particular company/gov lacks. Fuck competence, skin color/sexual orientation is more important than your skills it seems.

[Nibelheimy]

It adds personality

That's stupid.

If you can't make a character with a interesting personality without having to include some kind of 'cool' new sexuality then don't be inventing characters.

Absolutely nothing wrong with creating a character with a different sexuality, but don't try and say that it gives them personality by being so. Nah. Nah. Nah.

[Archon14]

I think widowmaker should be bi, based on the whole "she's a professional assassin that will even use her body as means to achieve an end". She's supposed to be as attractive as she is deadly, so her being interested in (or atleast doing the seduction part for) both genders seems a correct choice to me.

Zarya might look like a stereotypical lesbian to you guys, but I'm not convinced. Maybe if I see more of her story-wise I'd be able to make a reasonable assumption.

Bastion seems to be into the beastiality stuff, as he seems to like nature, pigeons and whatever. (Real answer - he doesn't struck me as a type of robot that could even experience romance)

I think Genji is a straight dude, he will just have a problem getting anywhere, having a cybernetic body and all.

The others seem pretty much straight to me (with some characters I'm not quite sure of, like Pharah or if Zenyatta is even into romance, someone with better knowledge of the lore can correct me on this). Winston and Tracer seem to have a more platonic relationship than something actually happening between them at all.

[Deleted]

This also reminds me of retards who complained about Witcher games being "too white" - well, sorry, we didn't had black people in medieval Poland :PPPPPP. It's a game based on local, Slavic and pagan myths.

So yeah.. if a game doesn't have representation of some sort of minority (being it sexual or racial) it doesn't mean developers are homophobes or racists - sometimes it just fits the setting - that's it.

Also, when games try "too hard" to appease this retarded progressive movement they end up looking pretty stupid. And I hope we will be able to put people in to jails for committing affirmative action - I don't think there is a thing in the world as discriminatory as hiring someone JUST because they have skin color or "gender" that a particular company/gov lacks. Fuck competence, skin color/sexual orientation is more important than your skills it seems.

You know that gay people are in every culture right? There's no setting where gay people "don't fit." We're everywhere.

[Dug]

Also, when games try "too hard" to appease this retarded progressive movement they end up looking pretty stupid. And I hope we will be able to put people in to jails for committing affirmative action - I don't think there is a thing in the world as discriminatory as hiring someone JUST because they have skin color or "gender" that a particular company/gov lacks. Fuck competence, skin color/sexual orientation is more important than your skills it seems.

trying "too hard" to you is trying at all. Y'know with "obnoxious pro-gay campaigns" and all that. But I'm not homophobic I swear!

[Sett]

Spoiler alert: Heterosexuality has existed in video games for a long time. I know, it's tough to accept. I'm still in shock.


lol I love how people try to justify their homophobia. Just own up to it. Stop dancing around that you give ten shits about 'sexuality shouldn't be in games' or that 'it doesn't make sense to have a gay character'.

[Mormolyce]

Bastion seems to be into the beastiality stuff, as he seems to like nature, pigeons and whatever. (Real answer - he doesn't struck me as a type of robot that could even experience romance)

To a robot I imagine sex with humans seems like bestiality anyway :P

I disagree about Zarya and would be a disappointed if that was the case. Because it is so stereotypical, as you said she's the 'obvious' one. Not to mention that they've already made the tough, strong, muscular woman Russian...which is also a bit of stereotype (Mother Russia in Kick Ass 2 is another example of this trope).

Zarya should not be a walking tropefest.

Your other examples I could definitely see with the exception of Roadhog.

Maybe. On the other hand, representations of lesbians in fiction always swerve towards lipstick lesbians. Depicting a butch (sorta) lesbian would be fairly representative.

I really hope we never find out what Roadhog is into. Burgers mostly, I imagine.

Its like when J.K. Rowling came out and said she always imagined Albus Dumbledore as being gay. and... how does that effect the story in any way shape or form? Why does it even need to be said?

It didn't, which is why it wasn't in the actual story. Unless you read it that way.

She only brought it up when asked about it point blank by fans if he'd ever found love. The answer was yes, with Grindelwald. Which makes sense if you think about it.

[Deleted]

You know that gay people are in every culture right? There's no setting where gay people "don't fit." We're everywhere.

Statistically you're prob right - I mean, current gender movement didn't invent homosexuality, it's with us since the humanity existed. But realistically? Nope. Just like genders gravitate to particular jobs/environments etc, same with people with particular sexual orientation within particular community/nation.

You have pretty high chance of finding a gay person in US army - not so much in Polish military. So putting gay person in a movie "Karbala" about Polish soldiers in Iraq would be very, very unrealistic and not connected to the setting :P. Topic is close to me cause I've served in the army. Sorry, but there are plenty of places/settings where finding a gay person is as likely as finding a unicorn.

[Traveler Voltin]

Widowmaker is totally bi

[BreathTaker]

Anyone who's not gay/whoever unusual constantly thinking of gays/whoever unusual is a bloody pervert.
It's getting worse and worse every day with lots of people sticking their noses into other's pants. Come on! I can only hope this does not go further than the internet.

[Mormolyce]

Anyone who's not gay/whoever unusual constantly thinking of gays/whoever unusual is a bloody pervert.
It's getting worse and worse every day with lots of people sticking their noses into other's pants. Come on! I can only hope this does not go further than the internet.

I can't deny that I'm a pervert.

[CookieEater]

Its so fucking irrelevant. How can people give a shit about this utter irrelevant crap? Whats next? Are we gonna start discussing what Hanzos favourite colour is? How about what Pharahs favourite breakfast drink is?

This would actually be much more interesting for me personally, and easier to make idle-talk voice-over of.

I don't bond with people over sexual preference, I bond with people over things like food or games they like... although I'm not really a breakfast drink person, I prefer cereal.

[Fenixhart]

Exactly. Nothing. Which is why they added gay characters to it. To catter to a very, very small minorty and to look good in the eyes of PC culture.

Fighting for LGBT rights is one thing, however that part is over, most countries in the western world allow gay marriage now. Now it's a complete shitstorm. If you're white and male you're a racist and sexist piece of shit, if you're straight then you're homophobic.

Adding gay characters adds absolutely nothing other than cattering to the PC (I WUNT TO BE REPRESENTED HURR DURR) CROWD. Especially considering they aren't even 1/3 of the human population.

Suggest that gay people exist.

Internet loses it's godamn fucking mind.

You people are hilarious.