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  1. #41
    you are fighting against culture, one that has intentionally kept most of its population ignorant and uninformed to retain power over masses of uneducated and low poverty individuals. western viewpoints of individual freedoms be they religion or financial simply are at odds. even our concepts of family structure are different, hell half of what i believe is probably just as false about 3rd world countries as what they believe about western countries. there is no incentive to learn as neither really cares what the other wants.. they just want what they want and they will do what it takes to get it.. that goes for both sides..

    Personally i cant wait for an alternative energy source that's viable so we can pull out of the whole mid-east they don't want us there meddling in their affairs, regardless of how we see things from the western point of view.. we will always be at odds because our base cultures are incompatible.. let alone religions.

  2. #42
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    Even though I dont like the man, he has a point here.
    Not particularly.

    The culture is still "stuck" somewhere in medieval times. And that's why trying to integrate them into the 21st century doesn't work out very well, as seen all over Europe.
    And yet it worked out just fine in the United States. Could it be that the US is just fundamentally better at something, seeing as "shariah law" hasn't descended upon Dearborn, Michigan (Arab population, 40%,) or some such?

    Weird.


    The vast majority of pretty much all people, first and foremost largely rural subsistence farmers, want fuck-all to do with something happening in a country thousands of miles removed from where they live. You're confusing terrorists with not-terrorists again.

    As for the "immigrant" problem, sounds a lot like scapegoating to hide the fact that European governments completely botched the situation themselves. "Oh the immigrants didn't assimilate despite us taking no measures to ensure that was the case?! Well they must just be troglodytes, that's what it is!"
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Not particularly.



    And yet it worked out just fine in the United States. Could it be that the US is just fundamentally better at something, seeing as "shariah law" hasn't descended upon Dearborn, Michigan (Arab population, 40%,) or some such?

    Weird.


    The vast majority of pretty much all people, first and foremost largely rural subsistence farmers, want fuck-all to do with something happening in a country thousands of miles removed from where they live. You're confusing terrorists with not-terrorists again.

    As for the "immigrant" problem, sounds a lot like scapegoating to hide the fact that European governments completely botched the situation themselves. "Oh the immigrants didn't assimilate despite us taking no measures to ensure that was the case?! Well they must just be troglodytes, that's what it is!"
    Lets blame everyone but the people them selfs, that usually works.

  4. #44
    I am Murloc! Ravenblade's Avatar
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    It's ironic that Blair of all is saying that even though he should have thought before he acted back then. You reap what you sowed.
    WoW: Crowcloak (Druid) & Neesheya (Paladin) @ Sylvanas EU (/ˈkaZHo͞oəl/) | GW2: Siqqa (Asura Engineer) @ Piken Square EU
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  5. #45
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    Lets blame everyone but the people them selfs, that usually works.
    Well you can either blame the people, which apparently does nothing, or do something about it.

    Or just keep doing nothing and complaining. Which is annoying. I mean if you aren't going to do anything, don't complain; you have no right to.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #46
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylv_ View Post
    At the end of the day, Muslim is not a race but a religion; you cannot be racist to a religion.
    But you can be bigoted. I don't see why people keep making this "you cannot be racist against a religion" point.
    Putin khuliyo

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Well you can either blame the people, which apparently does nothing, or do something about it.

    Or just keep doing nothing and complaining. Which is annoying. I mean if you aren't going to do anything, don't complain; you have no right to.
    What would you like me to do?
    Go out with my gun (which I don't own) and start shooting people that might or might not be a terrorist?
    How will I know if someone is a terrorist?
    I don't mingle in the communities that are the nr1 supplier of terrorists at this moment in time so how can I "find out" while not being part of that community?

    Again, what would you like me to do?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    But you can be bigoted. I don't see why people keep making this "you cannot be racist against a religion" point.
    Being bigoted is nothing more then not agreeing with the views of the person calling you a bigot these days.
    The word it self has lost its meaning.

  8. #48
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    Being bigoted is nothing more then not agreeing with the views of the person calling you a bigot these days.
    The word it self has lost its meaning.
    Being bigoted is automatically being against someone based on prejudice.

    Which I see a lot of in every thread about Muslims.

    People seem to forget that Muslims are individuals (much like Christians) of varying beliefs (much like Christians) and of varying degrees of zealotry (much like Christians.)

    And much like Christians, the violent ones are the minority.

    The problem is, the violent ones are loud right now. Islam has such a problem with terror that Christianity lacks because Islam is based out of poverty ridden countries where illiteracy and desparation is a high, which makes people vulnerable to extremism and radicalized ideas, whereas Christianity is mostly found in the developed Western nations where people are far more difficult to radicalize due to there being more wealth and education.

    It's not the religion that is the problem. Both religions have their violent texts and their zealots. It's a problem of geopolitics.

    People need to understand, Muslims aren't terrorists. Not all of them. Not even most of them. They are people. There are good ones, bad ones, and ones in between. Just as there are with Christians, Buddhists, atheists and any other large group of people.
    Putin khuliyo

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Being bigoted is automatically being against someone based on prejudice.

    Which I see a lot of in every thread about Muslims.

    People seem to forget that Muslims are individuals (much like Christians) of varying beliefs (much like Christians) and of varying degrees of zealotry (much like Christians.)

    And much like Christians, the violent ones are the minority.

    The problem is, the violent ones are loud right now. Islam has such a problem with terror that Christianity lacks because Islam is based out of poverty ridden countries where illiteracy and desparation is a high, which makes people vulnerable to extremism and radicalized ideas, whereas Christianity is mostly found in the developed Western nations where people are far more difficult to radicalize due to there being more wealth and education.

    It's not the religion that is the problem. Both religions have their violent texts and their zealots. It's a problem of geopolitics.

    People need to understand, Muslims aren't terrorists. Not all of them. Not even most of them. They are people. There are good ones, bad ones, and ones in between. Just as there are with Christians, Buddhists, atheists and any other large group of people.
    I have worked in Amsterdam for 7.5 years and worked in offices that were 70/80% Muslim.
    I worked with 100's of them and one of them I would have called my friend.

    He went and beat the shit out of a white guy because he was dating a Muslim (Turkish) girl in his community.

    You say "some people actually work with Muslim's and know they are nice people".
    I worked with 100's and I met 0 decent Muslims.

    I did however meet a few Christians that I would call "decent", not decent enough to actually call friends and meet on a regular basis.

    I wish people would stop making excuses for others.
    The number one supplier of terrorists in this day and age is the Muslim community, they kill and murder in the name of Islam and all you people do is "they are not true Islam" and continue to put your fingers in your ears so you don't have to hear any of the bad stuff.

    You can call me a bigot all day every day.

  10. #50
    Deleted
    Mr Blair!
    Who created the fundemental Islam? I will tell you, it started with USA supporting Taliban in Afganistan against Soviet. Then after 9/11 you listened to Sharon's claim that Iraq have weapons of mass desctruction. Then you invaded Iraq. Wasn't really Iraq better during Saddam Hussein? You was one of the main reasons the middle east is now blown up. Another information where did ISIS start, wasn't it in Iraq. You can blame muslims but the west is the main reason why there are a lot terrorists out there. No need to talk about your support for the Apartheid state Israel.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekingziko View Post
    Mr Blair!
    Who created the fundemental Islam? I will tell you, it started with USA supporting Taliban in Afganistan against Soviet. Then after 9/11 you listened to Sharon's claim that Iraq have weapons of mass desctruction. Then you invaded Iraq. Wasn't really Iraq better during Saddam Hussein? You was one of the main reasons the middle east is now blown up. Another information where did ISIS start, wasn't it in Iraq. You can blame muslims but the west is the main reason why there are a lot terrorists out there. No need to talk about your support for the Apartheid state Israel.
    Yeah! Lets blame everyone on this planet except for the Muslims communities and the terrorists them selfs!
    Because logic!

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    We have plenty of backwards people in the US too, you know who you are. The difference between these Americans and radical Islam is that radical Islam can be much more dangerous.

    I do believe we are headed for a big attack aimed at killing thousands. People stop being impressed by little attacks so terrorists have to constantly up their game.

    A pretty basic tenet is that there should be no separation between church, judiciary, armed forces and the political state: religion is supreme and the ultimate word in every dispute. The separation of powers is a pretty fundamental element of the modern world, and centralisation around a doctrine - monarchy, totalitarianism, theocracy, militarism - has had endless experiments, all of them a failure. You can see where a modernising Islam goes - where the Lebanon might have gone - but each attempt to realise this has been pinched off by retreat into more or less overt monarchy, tribal dictatorship or theocracy. Or chaos.

    -- some reddit guy



    many-millions-of-muslims-fundamentally-incompatible-with-the-west-says-tony-blair-a6954796.html

    Tony Blair has said that "many millions" of Muslims hold a viewpoint that is "fundamentally incompatible with the modern world."

    Rejecting arguments that Isis is simply "tens of thousands of brainwashed crazies," he continued: "[Isis] does not seek dialogue but dominance. It cannot therefore be contained. It has to be defeated."

    To mitigate against such attacks, the ex-PM argued for "active on-the-ground military support" for Arab armies, stating that Isis "have to be crushed."

    He also called for the creation of a pan-national anti-terror force, saying: "We must build military capability able to confront and defeat the terrorists wherever they try to hold territory. This is a challenge for the West."

    His comments, made during a Sunday Times interview, come six months after he admitted that the existence of Isis could be blamed on Western intervention in the Arab world during the second Iraq war.

    Asked by a CNN interviewer in October 2015 whether he thought the invasion of Iraq was a "principle cause" of the rise of Isis, he said:

    "I think there are elements of truth in that... Of course you can't say that those of us who removed Saddam in 2003 bear no responsibility for the situation in 2015.

    "But... it's not clear to me that even if our policy did not work, subsequent policies have worked better."

    He warned that "increasingly frequent acts of terrorism" could culminate in an attack "of such size and horror" that it would result in "many more victims" than the recent attack on Brussels or 2015 attacks in Paris.
    reddit guy is wrong about one thing, our society has been worse off de-centralized than it has been when it was centralized under Christian tenants which it was built upon.

    There are stark differences between Islam and Christianity, as even you can now see, Christianity is not about killing people who don't agree with you, even all the fundamental zealous Christians you don't like won't do that, because Jesus Christ preached love your enemies, do good to them that hurt you. Very very different from Islam. Every view point - whether humanism, atheism, communism, Christianity, Buddhism, head religion - will share itself simply because people interact and what you say and do is governed by what you believe is real or true to you, the more robust ones tend to weed out or at least dominate the less ones (but that isn't a hard and fast rule).

    They aren't all the truth you know even though they all contain some truths, one of them is true though ,embracing Christ fully as intended as always changed lives in the most remarkable and beneficial, constructive and good way ever - far more freeing and loving than Islam, warmer and with great meaning and purpose than nihilism, full of grace, humility and selflessness absent from humanism, a balance and effortless God-enabled self control Buddhism lacks, a simplicity and unifying message Hinduism lacks, I've seen lives restored, people find purpose, joy in a real way and that precious thing, hope in full light. What's a fundamental Christian going to do? Love you to death? - what is it you fear from a Christian totally devoted to Jesus Christ? nothing - unless you are corrupt and perverting truth where they will stand against you, but in love - they won't go machete-ing you or blowing you up or gunning you down now would they.

    Your hate against any religion is stupid, because everyone believes in something and so everyone has some sort of faith, the problem has always been what you believe. There is a right and a wrong, a way, and not the way, good and evil, always has been, always will be, the truth is discernible, but not everything is true... many things have elements of truth in them which draw people to them, but there is only one whole truth, you can find that in and/or through Jesus Christ.

    De-centralization or centralization has nothing to do with it, you will still have conflict as long as two people are in disagreement. And disagreement or agreement is not the be all and end all, because if you are all in agreement over the wrong thing or a lie, that is even more dangerous.

    The only thing that will work is when all people are in agreement, willingly over the real truth - until that happens, de-centralization is a better than being united over nonsense and arrogant vanity

    The avoidance of conflict is not the be all and end all, Islamic Jihad has been raging since the inception of the religion, the global movement gaining converts primarily through force and economic lockdown, or simple reproduction - never been won on the merits of its ideology, or the authenticity of its doctrine. In Christianity, it's not about theoretical ideology mainly - the proof of the pudding is actually your meeting and relating to God both on a spiritual and mental level, God-awareness, the supernatural, is accompanied by evidence of your faith in your everyday life, it's the God Himself that makes all those words so authentic, and all have found believing truly in the message of the Jewish Apostles as always led to a genuine encounter - this is why they have fought injustice, stood up for rights, helped people, campaigned for peace against unjust wars, fought for corruption and at the heart of it, the spreading of this truth of Christ at much personal cost to themselves, their whole lives lived that way and often willingly died for it. Have they gone out killing others and terrorizing others or threatening them like islamists and atheist do? NO! Have they rallied people to go blowing up others "destroy the infidels?" No - the sacrifice has never been you, it's always been them, all the risks taken on by them for you - there is a huge huge difference and it matters.

    As we can see, sometimes it is necessary to fight, avoidance of conflict is not the be all and end all, but why you are fighting has everything to do with it, a real Christian doesn't go blowing up people and shooting or stabbing them as a part of their faith - even if people don't agree, Christianity is not about that at all, however if someone is going around killing and murdering people or raping people and won't relent, you put them down. Avoiding conflict is not the end-goal of Christianity or purpose of Christianity, it is continuous and everlasting fellowship and oneness with God Himself, and it would be important never to forget that.

    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    what does it matter? EU leaders will continue to bury their heads in the sand and act like nothing is happening in Europe. As long as the right keeps gaining popularity in Europe there is still hope.
    Tony Blair definitely helped create this mess though
    That's cos of all the money and oil they get by pandering to Islamic leaders in the middle east instead of standing for justice or truth and what they actually know openly. Leaders don't even stand up to explain to people the legitimacy, legality and right of Israel the nation to be when Palestinian and Islamic nations constantly spewing a load of lies and using it justify killings, with more condemtnation over Israel sneezing than on the acts of the terrorists klling in the name of Allah - they're often not even regarded as the terrorists they actual are with some of you even viewing them as freedom fighters - thanks to them using the same spin on you that you have used to justify un-just wars in the past-- you'd never have fallen for it if you had been taught how to seek and treasure truth which is why you often get confusion or indifference rather than overwhelming support for the nation of Israel that is the only free society in the middle east, because the leaders who should be ironing out this gross lies about them in the public face are afraid of losing the revenue from middle eastern leaders who will be offended if they're shown to be too friendly to Israel.

    The reason leaders are so PC and afraid of offending people is because that's how most of you are in society, you are so afraid of offending people to the extent that you would keep quiet when someone is lying or really in the wrong - but only for select few issues. This is what happens when politicians are far more concerned about whether people like them than they are about truth, justice and actually doing what's right for the people they govern.
    Last edited by Mace; 2016-03-29 at 09:10 AM.

  13. #53
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    Yeah! Lets blame everyone on this planet except for the Muslims communities and the terrorists them selfs!
    Because logic!
    I don't say terrorists are blameless because they kill innocent people but west aren't angels like you might think. They are a big part what is happening right now. Specially Blair and Bush.

  14. #54
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by thekingziko View Post
    I don't say terrorists are blameless because they kill innocent people but west aren't angels like you might think. They are a big part what is happening right now. Specially Blair and Bush.
    No shit, everyone knows that the shit the west did in that shit hole in the middle east did not help but you said they and only they are to blame which is a load of bullshit.
    You then start to blame Israel and not blame palatine or any of their "helpful" neighbors for their disgusting actions.

    The fault lies with many different parties, the ones that can clean up this mess without killing half the planet are all living in the Islam communities though.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    Actually, the primary difference isn't that radical Islam can be much more dangerous than, say, radical Christians. History has shown that radical Christians are also just as capable of atrocities.

    The primary difference is that the radical Islam has no power. Similar to the Irish conflicts between the Catholics and the Protestants, much of the atrocities are being committed in the area where they want power, and some of the atrocities are happening against those that they see as supporting the enemy (so, the IRA committed acts of terror in the UK as well).

    In the US, despite all the saber rattling, the vast majority of Christian extremists understand that they actually have much of the power despite the gains by other groups to achieve equality. However, even despite having much of the power here, remember that Christian terrorism occurs right here in the US, but it just doesn't get labelled as such by the US media. The planned parenthood shootings and bombings (much less things like the Atlanta Olympic bomb) are as much terrorism as what you see in the Middle East and in Europe today. Yes, the scale is smaller, but it is an artifact of most extremist Christians understanding that they have power. Take away that power and actually make them oppressed (or if the rhetoric level gets high enough to convince them of that despite reality), and you will see Christian extremists ratchet it up to the same levels that you are seeing from the Islamic extremists today.
    Sorry, I'm going to put on my theology hat now.. if you don't want to hear me talk about faith, please skip this post because I'm going in.

    Most people assume Catholics = Christians. That is wrong. When the Roman Catholic Church arose, they put a wrinkled Emperor Palpatine on a gold and marble pedestal and proclaimed that he's now the holy father, the head of the church, and vicar of Christ, titles reserved for the trinity Godhead of the Holy Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit alone.

    The Commandment "Thou shalt not kill" was turned by the Roman Catholics on its head to mean "Start the crusades, also torture and burn on the stake everyone who refuses to worship the wrinkled old man in the Vatican"

    The Catholic church made pretty much the exact same entrance unto the world stage that Muhammad made, both came in the name of peace.. both shed their sheeps clothing and started murdering their opposition left and right. Unlike the Catholic Church however, who stopped their crusades and inquisitions, Muslims still obey faithfully their call to jihad over a thousand years later.

    Christians must _never_ kill. Never. As Christians our highest commandments are to love our God Jesus Christ, and love your neighbor as yourself. To love the same Father Almighty who keeps the Law, and as we all are breakers of his Law sentence us to die for our sins, but grieving for us and filled with mercy he came down from the heavenly throne to walk the earth as a man of flesh and blood, with the name Jesus Christ.

    To live a life fulfilling his own Law to the letter, which no man can endure, for we ate the forbidden fruit and our hearts became evil, so we all are rebels by heart. Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead, being kind and just in all his ways, a gentle God in flesh. Now was ready to tip the scale and even out all sin. A God who willingly laid himself onto the altar, the cross, and sacrificed himself for us.

    So that all who believe in him, Jesus Christ, in his death and resurrection, and repent with their mouth and their own words to him that they have sinned, may be instantly forgiven once and forever. And be freed once and for all from the shackles of darkness and fear that bind us to death, and instead inherit light in our hearts and eternal life. For whom the Son sets free, is free indeed. Such is his will for all of us, that all may come to repent and come to believe in the sacrifice and resurrection of his son Jesus Christ.

    Muhammad and the popes were simple men of flesh and blood, as sinful as the rest of us. They are not gods, they die and are buried. They have no power to rise from the dead, nor raise anyone from the dead, nor to forgive the sins of all mankind. Their gift to mankind was murder, not mercy.
    Last edited by Calamari; 2016-03-29 at 09:12 AM.
    Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
    .

  16. #56
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by thekingziko View Post
    Mr Blair!
    Who created the fundemental Islam? I will tell you, it started with USA supporting Taliban in Afganistan against Soviet. Then after 9/11 you listened to Sharon's claim that Iraq have weapons of mass desctruction. Then you invaded Iraq. Wasn't really Iraq better during Saddam Hussein? You was one of the main reasons the middle east is now blown up. Another information where did ISIS start, wasn't it in Iraq. You can blame muslims but the west is the main reason why there are a lot terrorists out there. No need to talk about your support for the Apartheid state Israel.
    What you said isn't wrong. Except for one thing. Fundamental Islam was created by Mohammad, not by USA.

  17. #57
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
    Most people assume Catholics = Christians. That is wrong. When the Roman Catholic Church arose, they put a wrinkled Emperor Palpatine on a gold and marble pedestal and proclaimed that he's now the holy father, the head of the church, and vicar of Christ, titles reserved for the trinity Godhead of the Holy Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit alone.
    Just because you don't understand the office of the pope doesn't mean that a group of Christ-worshippers from the sect Christianity originated from, doesn't mean they aren't Christian. Catholics do not worship the pope or consider him a part of the Trinity. The Pope leads the Church on earth but is not God. He is considered to be divinely inspired by God, but not God. The Pope is human and has always been treated as human. Popes are bad, popes are good and popes are in between.

    <--- Atheist Ex-Catholic.

    Sorry but that misconception irks me.
    Putin khuliyo

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    No shit, everyone knows that the shit the west did in that shit hole in the middle east did not help but you said they and only they are to blame which is a load of bullshit.
    You then start to blame Israel and not blame palatine or any of their "helpful" neighbors for their disgusting actions.

    The fault lies with many different parties, the ones that can clean up this mess without killing half the planet are all living in the Islam communities though.
    You know you just destroyed your argument by bringing Israel into this when it wasn't even mentioned. Nor did he imply that the western world was the "only" cause. This is not about facts but rather a deep rooted hatred inside of you; You've already made up your mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
    Sorry, I'm going to put on my theology hat now.. if you don't want to hear me talk about faith, please skip this post because I'm going in.

    Most people assume Catholics = Christians. That is wrong. When the Roman Catholic Church arose, they put a wrinkled Emperor Palpatine on a gold and marble pedestal and proclaimed that he's now the holy father, the head of the church, and vicar of Christ, titles reserved for the trinity Godhead of the Holy Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit alone.

    The Commandment "Thou shalt not kill" was turned by the Roman Catholics on its head to mean "Start the crusades, also torture and burn on the stake everyone who refuses to worship the wrinkled old man in the Vatican"

    The Catholic church made pretty much the exact same entrance unto the world stage that Muhammad made, both came in the name of peace.. both shed their sheeps clothing and started murdering their opposition left and right. Unlike the Catholic Church however, who stopped their crusades and inquisitions, Muslims still obey faithfully their call to jihad over a thousand years later.

    Christians must _never_ kill. Never. As Christians our highest commandments are to love our God Jesus Christ, and love your neighbor as yourself. To love the same Father Almighty who keeps the Law, and as we all are breakers of his Law sentence us to die for our sins, but grieving for us and filled with mercy he came down from the heavenly throne to walk the earth as a man of flesh and blood, with the name Jesus Christ.

    To live a life fulfilling his own Law to the letter, which no man can endure, for we ate the forbidden fruit and our hearts became evil, so we all are rebels by heart. Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead, being kind and just in all his ways, a gentle God in flesh. Now was ready to tip the scale and even out all sin. A God who willingly laid himself onto the altar, the cross, and sacrificed himself for us.

    So that all who believe in him, Jesus Christ, in his death and resurrection, and repent with their mouth and their own words to him that they have sinned, may be instantly forgiven once and forever. And be freed once and for all from the shackles of darkness and fear that bind us to death, and instead inherit light in our hearts and eternal life. For whom the Son sets free, is free indeed. Such is his will for all of us, that all may come to repent and come to believe in the sacrifice and resurrection of his son Jesus Christ.

    Muhammad and the popes were simple men of flesh and blood, as sinful as the rest of us. They are not gods, they die and are buried. They have no power to rise from the dead, nor raise anyone from the dead, nor to forgive the sins of all mankind. Their gift to mankind was murder, not mercy.
    Why? Why so much hatred?

    You're so confident about the love and peace that Christianity and Jesus Christ preaches but you won't even give Muslims a chance (a little research) to see that they preach the same thing?

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangean View Post
    Didn't realize it was a binary thing. Either or. Silly post is silly.
    Unfortunately for many 'Refugees welcome' Europeons it is.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lareeyon View Post
    You know you just destroyed your argument by bringing Israel into this when it wasn't even mentioned. Nor did he imply that the western world was the "only" cause. This is not about facts but rather a deep rooted hatred inside of you; You've already made up your mind.



    Why? Why so much hatred?

    You're so confident about the love and peace that Christianity and Jesus Christ preaches but you won't even give Muslims a chance (a little research) to see that they preach the same thing?
    Maybe you should learn to fucking read?:

    Quote Originally Posted by thekingziko View Post
    Mr Blair!
    Who created the fundemental Islam? I will tell you, it started with USA supporting Taliban in Afganistan against Soviet. Then after 9/11 you listened to Sharon's claim that Iraq have weapons of mass desctruction. Then you invaded Iraq. Wasn't really Iraq better during Saddam Hussein? You was one of the main reasons the middle east is now blown up. Another information where did ISIS start, wasn't it in Iraq. You can blame muslims but the west is the main reason why there are a lot terrorists out there. No need to talk about your support for the Apartheid state Israel.

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