Pose to be removed from Tracer after complaints of it being too suggestive/sexual

[Hell-Nicø]

Yes, look at all those tusks and neanderthal brows on those romance covers. The spitting image of grommash.

As for muscles in general - why must it be either or? Yes, women often like a good set of abs. But muscles also make a character look tough.

You try to act smart but it's painfully obvious you have not a fucking clue of what the women sexual fantasies are...
And yeah, they got DIFFERENT sexual fantasy than men, because, ya know, the human race is a sexual dimorphic one, and each sex is different.
As a broad generalization : Man like curve and small women, men like strong (muscle) tall men.

[Eleccybubb]

Just preordered Battleborn.

[Hell-Nicø]

Just preordered Battleborn.

HAHA, good one mate, good one.
Why don't we go play Evolve instead ?

[Sinyc]

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overw...83?page=11#210



All I can do is sigh.

Why? That pose contributes nothing to the game. I don't see other female characters with a glute pose, where is your outrage at that?

[Yarathir]

Yes, look at all those tusks and neanderthal brows on those romance covers. The spitting image of grommash.

Yes, and look at all those horns, tails and hooves on them. Surely.

As for muscles in general - why must it be either or? Yes, women often like a good set of abs. But muscles also make a character look tough. Depending on who the character designer is a muscly man could either be a male power fantasy or fanservice.

As can it be for generously-shaped female characters.

You do know that for many women, curves and looking good is an empowering thing, right?

Muscular men are both a power fantasy and fanservice.

As are curvy and good looking female characters.

Because what humans find attractive in men and women differs. For women (and gay men), muscular men are generally appealing. For men (and lesbian women), good looking and curvy women are generally appealing.

Owning that is empowering, and for those who get to see it, it's sexually appealing.

Then we can get to why it is even a power fantasy to look like that? Do you really think the average heterosexual male is really in love with the idea of a strong muscular body because he himself loves the look of abs on a male body? He wants to oil himself up for his own pleasure? Or could it have to do with the fact that being muscular, well-toned appeals to women more than being fat, thin, or whatever does?

And vice versa for women.

[Eleccybubb]

HAHA, good one mate, good one.
Why don't we go play Evolve instead ?

I actually suck at that tbh.

[Hell-Nicø]

Why? That pose contributes nothing to the game. I don't see other female characters with a glute pose, where is your outrage at that?

I don't know ?
Maybe you could read one of the 1280 other post on that topic instead of asking that stupid question ?

[Deleted]

So your interpretation of what is sexy or attractive is the objective one?

There's a lot of people that'd also say draenei are not attractive. Doesn't mean they aren't still barrel-chested hunk-like men. And the fact that orcs aren't entirely human doesn't mean that they suddenly aren't barrel-chested, hunk-like men.

Both draenei and orcs appeal to men and women. But you're not going to accept orcs as a case 1. because it disadvantages you in the whole idiotic "sexual objectificiation vs male power fantasy" myth and 2. because you personally don't find them appealing.

But thanks for inadvertently showing me that.

I just don't think it's a radical statement to say that tusks, huge brows, weirdly small eyes etc. aren't conventionally attractive. Jokes aside, if someone wants to enjoy that then cool but I just don't buy that the devs designed them with fanservice in mind. Obviously we can't definitively know that without asking the devs.

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Yes, and look at all those horns, tails and hooves on them. Surely.



As can it be for generously-shaped female characters.

You do know that for many women, curves and looking good is an empowering thing, right?

Muscular men are both a power fantasy and fanservice.

As are curvy and good looking female characters.

Because what humans find attractive in men and women differs. For women (and gay men), muscular men are generally appealing. For men (and lesbian women), good looking and curvy women are generally appealing.

Owning that is empowering, and for those who get to see it, it's sexually appealing.

Then we can get to why it is even a power fantasy to look like that? Do you really think the average heterosexual male is really in love with the idea of a strong muscular body because he himself loves the look of abs on a male body? He wants to oil himself up for his own pleasure? Or could it have to do with the fact that being muscular, well-toned appeals to women more than being fat, thin, or whatever does?

And vice versa for women.

That's true. But right now the gaming industry is male dominated. That's why the power fantasy thing is bought up so much with male characters. Because they're designed by straight guys who (unless they're doing some fanservicey marketing - which okay they might be) probably aren't designing their male characters with sex appeal in mind.

And look I've said it a dozen times in this thread and others - I like sexy characters. They just don't all need to be sexy. That is the issue. OW is doing a good job at tackling that issue, but it could be doing even better.

[Yarathir]

I just don't think it's a radical statement to say that tusks, huge brows, weirdly small eyes etc. aren't conventionally attractive. Jokes aside, if someone wants to enjoy that then cool but I just don't buy that the devs designed them with fanservice in mind. Obviously we can't definitively know that without asking the devs.

Actually, quite a lot of people like orcs as they are depicted. They're masculine, tough and dominant. Something that appeals to both women (fanservice) and men. (power fantasy)

Besides, if you want to argue from the 'conventionally attractive' standpoint, neither would draenei be. Yet draenei are still popular.

Now, if we were talking about Lord of the Rings orcs, Warhammer orcs, etc. I'd agree with you. But the way orcs in WoW are generally depicted? Not at all out of the ordinary.

I don't even want to get started with the reactions to how Garrosh was shown in the WoD cinematic.

[Austilias]

Why? That pose contributes nothing to the game. I don't see other female characters with a glute pose, where is your outrage at that?

What does any pose contribute to any game, objectively speaking?

[Indigenously Abled]

What does any pose contribute to any game, objectively speaking?

You're scratching deeper than the surface with that one. Might hit the point of no return here pretty soon.

[Halyon]

If the pose really didn't fit her character, then sure, remove it, but at least say that's why you remove it, not that 'ethical reasons' malarky...

Other than that...I've stopped caring. There' no pleasing anyone on these subjects anymore. Everyone knee-jerks over everything if it gets changed from what it was, no matter what.

[Yarathir]

I just don't think it's a radical statement to say that tusks, huge brows, weirdly small eyes etc. aren't conventionally attractive. Jokes aside, if someone wants to enjoy that then cool but I just don't buy that the devs designed them with fanservice in mind. Obviously we can't definitively know that without asking the devs.

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That's true. But right now the gaming industry is male dominated. That's why the power fantasy thing is bought up so much with male characters. Because they're designed by straight guys who (unless they're doing some fanservicey marketing - which okay they might be) probably aren't designing their male characters with sex appeal in mind.

And look I've said it a dozen times in this thread and others - I like sexy characters. They just don't all need to be sexy. That is the issue. OW is doing a good job at tackling that issue, but it could be doing even better.

It doesn't matter who they are designed by. What matters is what they are. Bayonetta was designed by a woman, and that didn't keep people from bitching that she was oversexualized, so that's obviously not it.

In the end, who cares who makes a thing? I don't, because it appeals to everyone who isn't sex-negative in one way or another.

Going "b-but a white male made this char." doesn't make you look clever or "woke", it makes you look silly.

There is nothing inherently wrong with sexualized characters because by their nature, they're there to appeal to more than just one audience. Playing a sexy, curvy female character is empowering to women, as is playing a muscular male hunk.

At the same time, all these character designs are also appealing to the opposite sex (as well as those with differing sexual orientations)

And the entire reason they're so empowering to both men and women is especially because they do the above, which is, appealing to the opposite sex (as well as those with different sexual orientations)

[Hell-Nicø]

That's true. But right now the gaming industry is male dominated.

Yeah and the fashion industry is female dominated.

It's like ... men and women (fuck these terrible "female and male" shit, we are not animals) have different center of interest ?

[Deleted]

I just had to create an account for this ...
Is Blizz actually kiddin'? Thousands of WoW-players are flooding the Forums with their (legit) complaints about this fucking content drought we're currently facing ... For months we've asked them to do something about it and to give us at least something to do ... They lost MILLIONS of players already ... and what did we get? Nothing. Excuses and stupid sayings like "It's done when it's done"!
And now they are caving because one femnazi complains about some stupid pose of some stupid character from a game that isn't even released yet?
That's what really pisses me off!

[Kallisto]

It was my favourite pose for Tracer, so I am very disappointed in this decision. Jeff may mean well, but man, he really messed up here. Even his second response to the issue did not help things, since the damage was already done. Keeping the pose in the game as it is is frankly the only thing Blizzard could do to fix this mess.

But what if (and this is highly likely) it is the reason they are changing her is that they don't think it fits her design and were changing it anyway? Isn't keeping that pose to keep the extreme on the other side happy also going against their artistic wishes?

[Hell-Nicø]

I just had to create an account for this ...
Is Blizz actually kiddin'? Thousands of WoW-players are flooding the Forums with their (legit) complaints about this fucking content drought we're currently facing ... For months we've asked them to do something about it and to give us at least something to do ... They lost MILLIONS of players already ... and what did we get? Nothing. Excuses and stupid sayings like "It's done when it's done"!
And now they are caving because one femnazi complains about some stupid pose of some stupid character from a game that isn't even released yet?
That's what really pisses me off!

Are you really serious ?

Like, you're complaining that a OVERWATCH GUY answer about a stupid shit on the OVERWATCH forum, because the WOW GUYS don't answer to the important stuff on the WOW forum ?

That sjw pandering is disgusting, but let's not mix stuff that have nothing to do here.

[Yarathir]

But what if (and this is highly likely) it is the reason they are changing her is that they don't think it fits her design and were changing it anyway? Isn't keeping that pose to keep the extreme on the other side happy also going against their artistic wishes?

I don't even want it changed back. Call it throwing the toys out of the pram as you wish, but I don't need that. If they wanna change it now: change it. All I want is for Blizzard to stop wilting like flowers at the slightest hint of "s-sexism!" and bend over backwards to appeal to people who complain.

Also, what doesn't fit Tracer? Sexual appeal?

[Gib Lover]

I just had to create an account for this ...
Is Blizz actually kiddin'? Thousands of WoW-players are flooding the Forums with their (legit) complaints about this fucking content drought we're currently facing ... For months we've asked them to do something about it and to give us at least something to do ... They lost MILLIONS of players already ... and what did we get? Nothing. Excuses and stupid sayings like "It's done when it's done"!
And now they are caving because one femnazi complains about some stupid pose of some stupid character from a game that isn't even released yet?
That's what really pisses me off!

This is, huh. Wow.

[Mythbredor]

What does any pose contribute to any game, objectively speaking?

We already went too far with this in general. It's a game why do we care how the characters pose? But since we are obviously following a self destructive line of thinking lets just remove all poses, emotes, play of the game thingys, flavor text. Anything that "Doesn't contribute the game" and lets remove the storyline too. Next step is to make all the characters genderless and completely flat everywhere and make sure they have a generic voice.