First PC Build!

[Fascinate]

RAM has less of an impact as it used to, i'd be more concerned with getting ram with a good performance index, and while OP's is pretty low at 160, it's also only $62, and there isn't much better in that range.



Marketing nonsense, i doubt anyone seriously uses stuff like that, nobody buys a high performance motherboard because of a piece of software bloat that comes with it. Builders select motherboards based on quality, and specific features(like m.2 or sli). Nobody cares about the extra nonsense anytime other than when they are justifying the purchase to themselves. The shear amount of stupid crap asus puts on their boards just to have a bigger feature list is why a lot of builders are moving away from asus towards brands that keep their boards simple, simple systems run faster.

also, software overclocking? really? really?



modern systems use quiet fans at static speeds, its less disruptive than fans that rev up constantly, and the parts are efficient enough now its easy to get away with on most builds



OT, but this is why you're still single.

This isn't your everyday software overclocking. Asus's implementation is built into a hardware level, literally exact same as if you went into the bios and did it yourself (you can actually uninstall the software after the OC is complete and the bios setting will save). There is a HUGE market for people that want the fastest rig possible but aren't exactly comfortable going into a bios and messing with settings they would have to watch a tutorial on. Just because its not exactly useful for you or me does not mean there isnt a market for it (i would def use the fan xpert tho, being able to turn case fans off at idle is a very cool thing).

5 million people play WoW, WoW loves high clock speeds.....surely you can wrap your head around the fact most would enjoy a FPS boost but dont have the time nor interest to go in the bios. I know i sound like a broken record there, but WoW is a great example of how useful a piece of software can be as purchasing factor for someone. This is why i like to suggest asus boards to people on here, especially people doing first builds. Its just a great value add.

[Remilia]

A couple things, fan control on most boards is nothing like what fan xpert can accomplish (look it up seriously, its a game changer). As for PSU efficiency curves, check out this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPvj1cs77qA

The 1500w unit actually was the MOST efficient on a system that drew ~350w from the wall. And yes you DID say it was "harmful" (you said bad, not sure how anyone could translate that any differently) to run a PSU at 5-30% of its max output.

It's a titanium load drawing at 20% of it's capacity which is 92%. Low load is talking about 40W~. Idle load.

Everything you say is either incorrect or makes no sense lol. (the PSU comment about it being harmful to run at 5-30% is just laughable, sorry you have no clue how PSU's or efficiency curves work).

Well, no. Efficiency as by 80+ is 20-50-100%. Gold @115V input for example is 87-90-87%. Platinum is 90-92-89%. Low load efficiency for an 80+ Gold at average is about 80%~ with some better units at 84%~. Again remember, 115V and 230V AC are different efficiency curves.
The best efficiency you want is 50%, period. Aging components come from heat mostly, but lower efficiency exacerbates it.

[Drunkenvalley]

Etc.

a. You've no idea who you're talking to lol. You're the fresh meat here, not Cyanotical.
b. Software overclocking only really does what going into the BIOS and hitting one toggle already does.
c. You seriously need to remember who you're throwing shit-talk at.

[Fascinate]

a. You've no idea who you're talking to lol. You're the fresh meat here, not Cyanotical.
b. Software overclocking only really does what going into the BIOS and hitting one toggle already does.
c. You seriously need to remember who you're throwing shit-talk at.

Excuse me? How in any way could you equate my post to shit talking? If anything the opposite is true, i am trying to show how good of a value add asus's AI suite is and gave examples where a ton of people could benefit from this software. I bet there are thousands of unlocked K sku machines out there with aftermarket heatstinks running at stock because they were either intimidated to go into the bios or just forgot about it altogether. Im sure that happens all the time, they ask for advice on a forum like this and either build it themselves, have a friend do it, or more than likely take the parts to a microcenter/frys/geek squad and put down 100 bucks for them to do it.

They get the thing home and it runs good, and think they have no need for overclocking cause its running fine or maybe they just say "ill maybe OC it later". This happens a lot more than you would think. A piece of software like this is just plain simple for the casual gamer, and it lets you get the most from your unlocked CPU (asus will get 200-400 mhz higher OC than any other boards competing "preset" OC buttons because its the same as if you did it manually, it runs through stress tests just as you would and pushes the CPU very close to the max a seasoned overclocker could get it).

[Cyanotical]

This isn't your everyday software overclocking. Asus's implementation is built into a hardware level, literally exact same as if you went into the bios and did it yourself (you can actually uninstall the software after the OC is complete and the bios setting will save). There is a HUGE market for people that want the fastest rig possible but aren't exactly comfortable going into a bios and messing with settings they would have to watch a tutorial on. Just because its not exactly useful for you or me does not mean there isnt a market for it (i would def use the fan xpert tho, being able to turn case fans off at idle is a very cool thing).

5 million people play WoW, WoW loves high clock speeds.....surely you can wrap your head around the fact most would enjoy a FPS boost but dont have the time nor interest to go in the bios. I know i sound like a broken record there, but WoW is a great example of how useful a piece of software can be as purchasing factor for someone. This is why i like to suggest asus boards to people on here, especially people doing first builds. Its just a great value add.

the thing is, if someone is not comfortable overclocking, software isn't going to help, software is notorious for overvolting its clocks, especially asus software, and while that might be fine at low clocks (100-200mhz), the vast majority of the people you think are going to love that software are likely going to turn the speed up until their system either crashes or fries the CPU.

wow is not as dependent on clock speeds as it used to be, with the engine revamps from WoD and the option of a less complete combat log means you don't need the uber high IPC rate that you used to. wow has always liked IPC rate, not clockspeed, its why a 4Ghz 4790k runs epic circles around a 5Ghz 9590.

also, the software suite doesn't do anything to get around the fact that the leaner your system the faster it is. the less nonsense you have on your board and the less background software you have the faster your system runs, in fact this is the reason i switched from large expensive 6-8 core 4 gpu builds to quad core single gpu. when the build is streamlined and simple as possible, you focus on improving whats left, the result is a system that is significantly faster in the eyes of the user, benches don't really matter so much anymore. asus with its 800 features and 400mb of extra software doesn't really fit that.

[Lathais]

the thing is, if someone is not comfortable overclocking, software isn't going to help, software is notorious for overvolting its clocks, especially asus software, and while that might be fine at low clocks (100-200mhz), the vast majority of the people you think are going to love that software are likely going to turn the speed up until their system either crashes or fries the CPU.

wow is not as dependent on clock speeds as it used to be, with the engine revamps from WoD and the option of a less complete combat log means you don't need the uber high IPC rate that you used to. wow has always liked IPC rate, not clockspeed, its why a 4Ghz 4790k runs epic circles around a 5Ghz 9590.

also, the software suite doesn't do anything to get around the fact that the leaner your system the faster it is. the less nonsense you have on your board and the less background software you have the faster your system runs, in fact this is the reason i switched from large expensive 6-8 core 4 gpu builds to quad core single gpu. when the build is streamlined and simple as possible, you focus on improving whats left, the result is a system that is significantly faster in the eyes of the user, benches don't really matter so much anymore. asus with its 800 features and 400mb of extra software doesn't really fit that.

One of the reasons I absolutely love ASRock boards. They are basically ASUS boards without all the extra crap that is not needed in the least. I mean hell, that's how they got their start. They were a spin-off company of ASUS in order to compete with cheap brands like Foxconn as ASUS did not want to put anything out that cheap with their name on it. They are currently owned by someone else, but that really only made them better as they could start to compete with ASUS at that point and were not left to deal with only the low end.

As to his point of people with K CPUs that are not OCed, well, they are still seeing gains over a non-K CPU as the K versions have higher Turbo speeds. So even without a manual OC, they are basically already stock OCed. The i5-6500 f.ex has a turbo of 3.6 whereas the 6600k has a turbo of 3.9.

I also have to second the fact that OCing does not make that much if a difference anymore. My wife and I both have 4690k's, which also turbos at 3.9. Mine however is OCed at 4.4, which is the highest I could get it and remain stable. There is no discernible difference in how our PCs run games other than mine having shorter loading times due to the SSD. The systems are otherwise identical, including lot numbers on all the parts being very close together, as all parts were purchased at the same time.

So for all those people out there with unlocked CPUs that have not OCed them, they are really not missing anything.

[Fascinate]

the thing is, if someone is not comfortable overclocking, software isn't going to help, software is notorious for overvolting its clocks, especially asus software, and while that might be fine at low clocks (100-200mhz), the vast majority of the people you think are going to love that software are likely going to turn the speed up until their system either crashes or fries the CPU.

wow is not as dependent on clock speeds as it used to be, with the engine revamps from WoD and the option of a less complete combat log means you don't need the uber high IPC rate that you used to. wow has always liked IPC rate, not clockspeed, its why a 4Ghz 4790k runs epic circles around a 5Ghz 9590.

also, the software suite doesn't do anything to get around the fact that the leaner your system the faster it is. the less nonsense you have on your board and the less background software you have the faster your system runs, in fact this is the reason i switched from large expensive 6-8 core 4 gpu builds to quad core single gpu. when the build is streamlined and simple as possible, you focus on improving whats left, the result is a system that is significantly faster in the eyes of the user, benches don't really matter so much anymore. asus with its 800 features and 400mb of extra software doesn't really fit that.

Its a shame you didn't watch JJ's tutorial which i linked. Asus limits the voltage to around 1.35v on skylake, it was 1.3 on haswell. This is real engineering here folks, a ridiculous amount of money and manpower was put into this. Again had you watched the video you would have seen you can literally uninstall the program and the overclock is saved in bios just as if you had done a manual OC.

[Keyimin]

Gotta say, I really had no intention of OCing unless something appeared to need a boost. If all runs smoothly out of the box for my purposes, why start pushing the hardware? What's the need?

[chazus]

Gotta say, I really had no intention of OCing unless something appeared to need a boost. If all runs smoothly out of the box for my purposes, why start pushing the hardware? What's the need?

A couple things.
1) If you play wow, it makes a difference.
2) If you pay for the OC Hardware, you're literally wasting money by not
3) If you pay for the OC Hardware, you get a free performance boost effectively
4) It's not hard to do. It's really not. People are hemming and hawing over it, but you can get a 4.2ghz OC -very- easily. It literally takes like 30 seconds, software or no.
5) It's not dangerous, it's not 'pushing'. It's pretty standard operation these days for higher end systems.

[Fascinate]

Gotta say, I really had no intention of OCing unless something appeared to need a boost. If all runs smoothly out of the box for my purposes, why start pushing the hardware? What's the need?

SEE this is what im talking about lol. No you are right there isnt any need for it, but you spent the money on it why not? You won't visually see any differences in gameplay with your CPU at 4.0ghz compared to 4.6ghz, but again why are you spending money on a 6600k and a 220 dollar z170 board? If you aren't going to OC save 150+ dollars and grab an i5 6500 and b150 board? . This gets right back to my point, there are TONS of rigs out there that people did exactly this, got a sweet rig ready to be overclocked, spent the extra money for the features and they simply dont use them lol.

Now do you guys see what im saying? The example i gave of people buying these overclockable components and not taking advantage is right here in this thread. Im not giving you crap at all to be clear, there is really no huge advantage's (aside from decent gains in MMO's) to overclocking but there are also no real downsides either with todays components.

Here is a i5-6500:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-563-_-Product

Quality b150 board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3938566&SID=

[chazus]

You won't visually see any differences in gameplay with your CPU at 4.0ghz compared to 4.6ghz

The 6600K stock will play at about 3.7. 3.7 to 4.4 is actually pretty significant, especially in MMO's.

If you aren't going to OC save 150+ dollars and grab an i5 6500 and b150 board?

Not sure about the $220, but you can get the OC setup for $50 more (30 for the K, 20 for a cpu cooler). The 6500 clocks at about 3.4. Again, going from 3.4 to 4.4 is pretty massive. There's definitely reasons to OC, and I really, really think that opting for a 6500 is a bad choice.

Really, the -only- CPU's I recommend these days are pretty much the high clocked i3's, or a 6600K/4690K

[Keyimin]

A couple things.
1) If you play wow, it makes a difference.
2) If you pay for the OC Hardware, you're literally wasting money by not
3) If you pay for the OC Hardware, you get a free performance boost effectively
4) It's not hard to do. It's really not. People are hemming and hawing over it, but you can get a 4.2ghz OC -very- easily. It literally takes like 30 seconds, software or no.
5) It's not dangerous, it's not 'pushing'. It's pretty standard operation these days for higher end systems.

Well, if it will make a difference for WoW, then I'll definitely do it straight away regardless lol. As far as the waste, I didn't mean to suggest I'd never do it; having the ability to do so is precisely why I got that type of motherboard. I guess I just looked at it as a "room to grow" factor rather than an out-of-the-box use. But yeah, fair points and good to know, thanks!

[Lathais]

A couple things.
1) If you play wow, it makes a difference.
2) If you pay for the OC Hardware, you're literally wasting money by not
3) If you pay for the OC Hardware, you get a free performance boost effectively
4) It's not hard to do. It's really not. People are hemming and hawing over it, but you can get a 4.2ghz OC -very- easily. It literally takes like 30 seconds, software or no.
5) It's not dangerous, it's not 'pushing'. It's pretty standard operation these days for higher end systems.

1) Not as much as it used to though. I was planning on doing a few other quick tests in WoW at some point this week/comong weekend anyway, so maybe I'll do something there too.
2) Not entirely as you still benefit from higher turbo speeds and not wasting money on the stock cooler which usually goes to the garbage anyway.

[chazus]

having the ability to do so is precisely why I got that type of motherboard. I guess I just looked at it as a "room to grow" factor rather than an out-of-the-box use. But yeah, fair points and good to know, thanks!

Honestly, a $90 motherboard these days will do 95% of what a $150 motherboard will do. People talk about m.2 and USB 3.1 and blah blah... That's just enthusiast stuff that really doesn't make a difference. There isn't much 'room to grow' factor. Getting a more expensive board doesn't provide upward mobility. You buy it and in 5 years you get a new system. If you don't use any fancy features now, you probably won't later. Or if you REALLY want it, you can buy a card for it and account for that next time. There's no sense spending money now on features that you likely won't use, or have no real world benefit.

1) Not as much as it used to though. I was planning on doing a few other quick tests in WoW at some point this week/comong weekend anyway, so maybe I'll do something there too.

I haven't heard otherwise, outside that the GPU is getting used more. I'd be interested to hear otherwise.

2) Not entirely as you still benefit from higher turbo speeds and not wasting money on the stock cooler which usually goes to the garbage anyway.

The numbers I was mentioning was including turbo

[Cyanotical]

SEE this is what im talking about lol. No you are right there isnt any need for it, but you spent the money on it why not? You won't visually see any differences in gameplay with your CPU at 4.0ghz compared to 4.6ghz, but again why are you spending money on a 6600k and a 220 dollar z170 board? If you aren't going to OC save 150+ dollars and grab an i5 6500 and b150 board? . This gets right back to my point, there are TONS of rigs out there that people did exactly this, got a sweet rig ready to be overclocked, spent the extra money for the features and they simply dont use them lol.

Now do you guys see what im saying? The example i gave of people buying these overclockable components and not taking advantage is right here in this thread. Im not giving you crap at all to be clear, there is really no huge advantage's (aside from decent gains in MMO's) to overclocking but there are also no real downsides either with todays components.

you're like a desperate salesman who just can't get the sell, thinking that if you say the right things and present facts that OP will inevitably change her mind. Meanwhile everyone else is waiting for you to finally figure out that other people have different motivations than you.

You won't visually see any differences in gameplay

and this is the important part, because it's actually correct. modern systems handle games like wow with ease, and you can assume that as long as you have at least a fairly current quad core and graphics card that you'll be able to run most if not all games on fairly good to best graphics quality. Because overclocking isn't that important anymore, there is absolutely no reason to pick X part over Y part for performance reasons. OP picked the MSI because it has more and better reviews, which is a pretty valid reason to pick one board over another, and pretty much indicates she's looking for reliability and stability. when you combine this with the fact that she has expressed a lack interest in overclocking, any software asus provides is pointless, regardless of how easy it makes overclocking.

[chazus]

I'm not sure where an increase in minimum fps is considered "not important". Going from 30-40 min fps is pretty significant. Especially at little cost.

[Cyanotical]

I'm not sure where an increase in minimum fps is considered "not important". Going from 30-40 min fps is pretty significant. Especially at little cost.

because most people can't comparatively tell if something is an improvement without a benchmark tool anymore. also, much of the demand wow had on systems is gone now, the idea that you need to overclock to get the full performance out of your system is still true, however, the base performance of most systems now is higher than systems were 5 years ago and more often then not, sufficient to run modern games very well. about the only thing that is still difficult to run anymore is benchmark games on a 4k screen, of which wow isn't one of them.

we used to stress having a high IPC rate for your CPU to play wow, but the fact is most systems built in the last 2-3 years are going to play wow fine. if a 3570k at stock clocks and gtx-760 are still capable of running wow well enough for raiders, than there is no reason to think that you need anymore performance, especially considering the engine revamps to the game. even in combat, where 60 FPS used to be the spikes and 30 fps was the norm, now frame rates are more stable, with average frame rates for combat being closer to 60 and only experiencing drops in frame rate occasionally.

and then there is the 4790k and its successor the 6700k, while both chips are an overclocker's dream, most people who own them have found that they don't need to be overclocked, i'm in that group as well, i've got both and i've felt no need to overclock either, the base performance of each chip is so high that the extra 200-300mhz you can get out of them doesn't really make a difference. the biggest performance increase recently has been the NVMe drives and direct to cpu storage instructions included on skylake. this is because it touches on an area that users still see, their wait times.

if you need a benchmark tool to tell you if your new cpu or gpu is only a few hundred points better than your last, an upgrade or overclock isn't going to do much, if anything, the hassle of validating a stable overclock is going to feel like more trouble than its worth if after 3-4 days you're only 2-3 multipliers higher, and while you can see an improvement on whatever bench you use, it won't feel any faster.

essentially, overclocking doesn't do much anymore because the base performance is so high, and upgrading your storage to NVMe will feel like a massive improvement compared to overclocking and is probably the area to be focusing on to improve system performance.

[Drunkenvalley]

Is NVMe noticeable versus regular SSD though? I honestly wouldn't know. I presume yes, because I recall you ran a RAM disc test too to show off.

[Cyanotical]

Is NVMe noticeable versus regular SSD though? I honestly wouldn't know. I presume yes, because I recall you ran a RAM disc test too to show off.

oh yes, especially if you are coming from a sata ssd, im running two in raid0, and aside from capping out bandwidth, the higher IOPS and lower latency from bypassing the PCH are what really make the system feel faster, those are what contribute to programs feeling like they open faster and what not. but even for traditional loads like game load screens, you're running around 6 times faster than a sata ssd and you're not adding latency from going through the PCH.

[Drunkenvalley]

I mean, I know the file transfer speeds. The problem is a lot of software out there isn't capped by file transfers, but by its sluggish code execution. Like Skyrim without mods has major difference between with and without SSD, but Skyrim with mods is nearly identical between the two. Because Skyrim's doing something else that doesn't involve file transfers that slows things down to a crawl.