Is Taxation Theft?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Taxes are a reality of living in a society. Unless you want to live in a backwards hellhole (or are cheating taxes) you're going to be paying taxes. Some of those taxes are going to go towards things you don't want then to go towards because you live in a society of tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of different people.

If you're poor, you're often supported by taxes. If you're rich, you got there through a combination of your own work and the government that exists within your country. Your work alone did not get you where you are. In Somalia, that work you put in would have amounted to jack shit because there is no government to speak of, no roads, not defense force, no justice system, the poor and destitute often steal because they have no choice if they want to live, and so on. Your taxes go towards paying for a stable and prosperous society. This is the nature behind Obama's "you did not build that" statement. Those who somehow believe it was by their efforts alone that they got where they are, are delusional narcissistic fools.

[Varitok]

Oh god, is this even a question that needs to be asked?

[Underverse]

No it's not theft. I see this line promulgated by ancaps all the time in the typical weakminded fashion. An individual is not bound by law to a country unless they incur a social debt (via murder, for example). In other words: you're free to leave. By being part of a lawful society, you consent to be governed.

[tankbug]

To me taxation is theft when that money is being spent on things other than what the constitution explicitly allows.

Things that are okay uses of tax dollars: Emergency services, the military, the justice system, public buildings

Things that are not okay uses of tax dollars: wealth redistribution, infrastructure, regulation of businesses, non-constitutional agencies

What's with the fixation on the constitution? Why not say that taxes should be spent on what the country, as a democracy, owes and benefits its people?

[Underverse]

Hi, Libertarian here.

"Taxation is theft" usually is associated with income tax.

Which is theft. It's my money, I work for it. Get yer own.

*sigh* another one.

You consent to being governed by law as long as you're a part of society. If you don't consent to being governed by law, you're free to live by yourself on an uncharted island in the middle of the Pacific.

[tankbug]

Hi, Libertarian here.

"Taxation is theft" usually is associated with income tax.

Which is theft. It's my money, I work for it. Get yer own.

Well, if you want anarchy, I hope for your sake you're the biggest badass in town, with the best arsenal at your disposal, because if you don't want taxes to pay for the police and justice system, you're gonna get some mean visitors looking for loot.

Btw, you're not given your money from some greater power in the universe. The society, which has a cost, makes it possible for you to trade your skills for money in safe conditions. Think of it as a maintenance cost, everyone has to pitch in.

[Nefarious Tea]

To me taxation is theft when that money is being spent on things other than what the constitution explicitly allows.

Things that are okay uses of tax dollars: Emergency services, the military, the justice system, public buildings

Things that are not okay uses of tax dollars: wealth redistribution, infrastructure, regulation of businesses, non-constitutional agencies

Infrastructure includes roads, water lines, and the power grid in addition to buildings. Or did you want to walk everywhere, have little drinkable water, and do everything by candlelight?

[SL1200]

Only theft if your family never used public education, or hired someone who was schooled by public education, traveled on public roads, went to a park or any other public venue. Never called a cop or the fire department for anything, . I'm sure there's not a lot of people out there that never used public services.

[tankbug]

If higher taxes work, why not tax 100%? Take everything from everyone. Have the government make every decision.

Because the country needs you to spend some money. Higher taxes work for millionaires, because even after a high tax, they are still millionaires. Take away half the pay of someone getting minimum wage, and they can't live.

[Endus]

Hi, Libertarian here.

"Taxation is theft" usually is associated with income tax.

Which is theft. It's my money, I work for it. Get yer own.

The government worked for their share of that money, too. The amount you owe in taxes isn't your money. That's why you owe it to the government. Your argument is like complaining that your landlord is "stealing" most of your paycheck because you have to keep paying rent, and it's "unfair" because you worked for it and he didn't.

[Underverse]

Only theft if your family never used public education, or hired someone who was schooled by public education, traveled on public roads, went to a park or any other public venue. Never called a cop or the fire department for anything, . I'm sure there's not a lot of people out there that never used public services.

Even then it's not theft. Otherwise one could argue that rich people who pay a lot more than others are being robbed. The reason it isn't theft is because of a social agreement that one consents to by being part of society.

[SL1200]

Even then it's not theft. Otherwise one could argue that rich people who pay a lot more than others are being robbed. The reason it isn't theft is because of a social agreement that one consents to by being part of society.

They're not being robbed, because typicaly they're consuming more resources. When you consume more resources, more energy, more land, more water and other things like that you should pay higher taxes.

[Captain N]

Even then it's not theft. Otherwise one could argue that rich people who pay a lot more than others are being robbed. The reason it isn't theft is because of a social agreement that one consents to by being part of society.

You have to be careful with that argument because you're not taking loopholes in the system into consideration. Despite the couple of shit birds on this forum that scream about the US and it's "Highest in the World" corporate tax rate -- They're effectively paying less percentage wise than your average citizen.

[Firestyle]

Yeah. Is driving your car on a roadway that other taxpayers paid for, thus contributing to the wear-and-tear without paying taxes vandalism?

Apparently not, because half of this country doesn't pay taxes and still uses roads.

[jeleopard]

*sigh* another one.

You consent to being governed by law as long as you're a part of society. If you don't consent to being governed by law, you're free to live by yourself on an uncharted island in the middle of the Pacific.

lol

I didn't say all taxes are theft. There just shouldn't be an income tax.

[alexw]

Apparently not, because half of this country doesn't pay taxes and still uses roads.

Yes you need to get your presidential candidates to call half the population moochers. Preferably live on TV. It worked so wonderfully well last time that you republicans need to repeat it.

[mizeri]

yes and not, paying politicians lifetime of really high pay when they almost does nothing, thats theft

[Chromeshellking]

Yeah. Is driving your car on a roadway that other taxpayers paid for, thus contributing to the wear-and-tear without paying taxes vandalism?

No because you using the road as it was intended and therefore is not vandalism, but if you did something deliberately to damage said highway that is another story.

[Theodarzna]

lol

I didn't say all taxes are theft. There just shouldn't be an income tax.

Why not? The old model was based purely on an entirely agrarian world, now a small square space generates an incredible amount of income but farming is basically an industry that is only profitable because its subsidized.

[jeleopard]

Why not? The old model was based purely on an entirely agrarian world, now a small square space generates an incredible amount of income but farming is basically an industry that is only profitable because its subsidized.

Because I work for my money. Sales tax and living tax should be enough.