Legion - Subtlety discussion

[Smaxy]

The only reason to press is it (PvE) is that it does damage but doesn't cost energy. It does slow for PvP too. Woo!!!!

It's awful, though. I very much hope it's revamped.

[Deleted]

Can anyone confirm whether or not Shadowy Duel can be trinketed?

No you cannot trinket the effect it produces as it is a LOS effect, just think of it like a giant smoke bomb that you can't get out of or anyone else can't see into.

Oh and @Ula forgot to add to our covo earlier, SD will be fucking awesome for RBG's tho mate, it has a hilarious amount of utility possible for capture the flag matchs etc. I can see it being used a lot over the damage talents, as rogues have pretty niche roles in that type of pvp.

[Skarzog]

You could probably just macro Goremaw's Bite into your other abilities in most cases. Just use it on CD, its completely inconsequential, no reason to think about it, just use it... Thats it... How the fuck is this an ability?

[Smaxy]

You could probably just macro Goremaw's Bite into your other abilities in most cases. Just use it on CD, its completely inconsequential, no reason to think about it, just use it... Thats it... How the fuck is this an ability?

Why would you do this it's on the GCD

[Deleted]

Why would you do this it's on the GCD

If it wasn't so sad that this shit ability still has not been changed, it would be hilarious, the fucking thing doesn't even build combo points lol.

Gotta be getting changed, i mean even if they just make it give 2cp that would improve it 100% and actually be worth casting.

[Deleted]

Switch out gloomblade with symbols of death. So gloomblade is baseline, and symbols of death is a talent, and give me back slice and dice. Then i'd be the happiest person.

[Smaxy]

Enveloping Shadows baseline is the way to go I think guys.

[maddnesskhaz]

Switch out gloomblade with symbols of death. So gloomblade is baseline, and symbols of death is a talent, and give me back slice and dice. Then i'd be the happiest person.

I'd love to see them move Gloomblade baseline if they won't remove positional requirements on Backstab, and I think a hybrid Physical / Shadow damage basis for Sub may not be a bad thing anyway.

SnD is kind of required if Shadow Blades is to have any kind of value sadly.

Enveloping Shadows baseline is the way to go I think guys.

For me it feels like our passive CP generation is too high with this, I'd rather more energy to use for active CP generation instead of having passively generated CP and more downtime in the rotation (outside of the mash Shadowstrike during Dance window(s)).

[Smaxy]

I like the idea of investing 5-6 cp for additional combo points down the road, gives more of a bursty feel and because of the nature of pandemic threshold, you can kind of plan ahead for periods of high damage required and that's cool IMO. Also I like timing combo points from ST/ES; but I do see your point.

With ES baseline we'd likely need back Relentless Strikes in WoD functionality, though. I mean, I think we need it already for AoE but I digress..

Anyone else excited for next build? A little optimistic?

[maddnesskhaz]

I like the idea of investing 5-6 cp for additional combo points down the road, gives more of a bursty feel and because of the nature of pandemic threshold, you can kind of plan ahead for periods of high damage required and that's cool IMO. Also I like timing combo points from ST/ES; but I do see your point.

With ES baseline we'd likely need back Relentless Strikes in WoD functionality, though. I mean, I think we need it already for AoE but I digress..

Anyone else excited for next build? A little optimistic?

I enjoy the timing combo points part of resource management, I think it's one of the key parts of Sub with HaT (in a raid) being a consistent source of CP, it just feels like we're getting too much passively and not using our abilities to generate them - just my opinion though.

Relentless Strikes really does need to return to WoD functionality I agree, the bonus energy doesn't mesh with SD being a CD again, and the rotation feels energy starved because of it.

I'm intrigued as to what / any changes we see, it's been a few weeks since the previous build which suggests this could be a reasonably large one with lots of changes, remains to be seen though!

[Smaxy]

I enjoy the timing combo points part of resource management, I think it's one of the key parts of Sub with HaT (in a raid) being a consistent source of CP, it just feels like we're getting too much passively and not using our abilities to generate them - just my opinion though.

Relentless Strikes really does need to return to WoD functionality I agree, the bonus energy doesn't mesh with SD being a CD again, and the rotation feels energy starved because of it.

I'm intrigued as to what / any changes we see, it's been a few weeks since the previous build which suggests this could be a reasonably large one with lots of changes, remains to be seen though!

Personally, I like the dynamic in that of our resources, we generate less energy but more CP passively. Makes the spec feel unique when compared to Assn, and fits our Mastery. There has to be a balance, though.

And I agree about energy- For me, the thing I'm trying to stress related to energy regen/Master of Shadows/Relentless Strikes on the official forums is how it's broken with our AoE setup. Because although I dislike it for ST, the flow of the spec REALLY feels flawed in its current state for AoE. Really awkward.

And yeah, really looking forward to the changes.

[Zoulis]

I swear these design notes are hurting me. If it's only the lvl30 talents,, I can't understand what these guys are thinking... And the part about artifact traits... Our shitty aoe trait and on-use ability better be part of those. I'm waiting for the datamined info, but so far the anticipation I had for this patch got rekt.

[Deleted]

At level 10, you spec into subtlety. What button do you press to kill things? Now that hemo isn't a thing. Maybe i'm missing something obvious, this really confuses me. You literally have no spell to build CP's(except for backstab, but you can't really), till you can spec into gloomblade? What in the world is this. Okay so you get dance at level 10.. Meaning you'll only be able to kill stuff using dance? Eh, i know i shouldn't worry about how sub plays at level 10.. But this is still really silly. Just make gloomblade.. Baseline.

[elfporn]

I swear these design notes are hurting me. If it's only the lvl30 talents,, I can't understand what these guys are thinking... And the part about artifact traits... Our shitty aoe trait and on-use ability better be part of those. I'm waiting for the datamined info, but so far the anticipation I had for this patch got rekt.

I will be pulling out the popcorn (and participating) when beta hits and its forums go live...and that subtlety feedback thread gets bombed.

we need to be vocal about all the main issues, all the time. Sort out a list of the main grievances we're seeing and shove it down their throats, and we need to do it while being unified, all for one and one for all.

[maddnesskhaz]

I swear these design notes are hurting me. If it's only the lvl30 talents,, I can't understand what these guys are thinking... And the part about artifact traits... Our shitty aoe trait and on-use ability better be part of those. I'm waiting for the datamined info, but so far the anticipation I had for this patch got rekt.

Patch data is downloadable now (almost a 6GB patch) so we'll find out soon enough what all the build changes are.

There's a distinct lack of much of anything listed for Sub, let alone the other 2 specs, so I'm not filled with confidence if the major highlights are bug fixing the Level 30 talents.

[Willoughby]

At level 10, you spec into subtlety. What button do you press to kill things? Now that hemo isn't a thing. Maybe i'm missing something obvious, this really confuses me. You literally have no spell to build CP's(except for backstab, but you can't really), till you can spec into gloomblade? What in the world is this. Okay so you get dance at level 10.. Meaning you'll only be able to kill stuff using dance? Eh, i know i shouldn't worry about how sub plays at level 10.. But this is still really silly. Just make gloomblade.. Baseline.

You can Backstab from the front in legion, it just does 30% less damage. Blizzard likes to call it 30% bonus damage from behind, but we all know what it is.

[maddnesskhaz]

Well... The level 30 talents, SoD duration and nightblade damage are about it.

[Smaxy]

Well... The level 30 talents, SoD duration and nightblade damage are about it.

Not like I expected anything else. They're virtually ignoring all feedback.

I should clarify that they are ignoring it not in the sense that they aren't receiving/reviewing it, but that they aren't making changes consistent with our feedback.

SoD to 35 energy and 35 Seconds...

[Christhammer]

Some solid changes this build, but STILL no energy regen!

[Deleted]

There are some changes that weren't catched up by MMO patch note: in Sub spec Shadow Focus is only a 20% energy reduction and Nightstalker is a 15% damage bonus to abilities