Why do we allow lugenpresse to exist?

[Deleted]

I admit to knowing about it from my own experiences with the German press hiding and outright lying about refugees but it is a problem for countries around the globe. Why is it we allow news companies to lie about stories and twist events around in order to support certain political positions?

Should we not make this a serous offense? I understand the value of free speech but with the advent of small mobile recording devices it seems everyday that what people are told happens rarely lines up with what is happening.

Would we not be better served if fiction in the press is clearly labeled as such and trying to pass of fiction as a actual event or purposely misleading people was a punishable offense?

I admit I don't know how such a system would function perhaps a watch dog group or a independent group that would inspect complaints? I don't know what are your thoughts on it?

[Stormdash]

Could even set up a Ministry of Truth to establish what the approved topics and interpretations of events are?

[Underverse]

It would be incredibly hard to legislate against twisting words in media. You can be highly biased without lying a single time.

A better solution might be to vet media for standards of objectivity; give them a stamp of approval if they approach issues objectively. The only problem is that you need to form an objective council that is able to pass these kinds of judgements, and that's no small task. Even our supreme court in the US is largely partisan.

[Deleted]

I admit to knowing my about it with the German press hiding and outright lying about refugees but it is a problem for countries around the globe. Why is it we allow news companies to lie about stories and twist events around in order to support certain political positions?

Should we not make this a serous offense? I understand the value of free speech but with the advent of small mobile recording devices it seems everyday that what people are told happens rarely lines up with what is happening.

Would we not be better served if fiction in the press is clearly labeled as such and trying to pass of fiction as a actual event or purposely misleading people was a punishable offense?

I admit I don't know how such a system would function perhaps a watch dog group or a independent group that would inspect complaints? I don't know what are your thoughts on it?

The problem is the ideologically warped nature of the majority of journalists, what's worse, they seem to have left behind some of the old rules like (accurate representations of reality) - Easiest way to do anything about it, is to reform your 'BBCs' - The majority of them degenerate into left wing lie 'perspectives' spewers in minutes.

[Rukh]

http://www.germerica.com/2015/01/13/...freedom-press/

Its interesting seeing where people get their information from. Very specific word the OP used there.

[Rukh]

So it's like a German version of "liberal media."

Its a german dogwhistle word popular with far-right anti-islamic groups. Interesting to see what brushes off and clings to people when they roam the internet. Clues of where they go.

[Independent voter]

One man's lugenpresse is another man's wahrhaftigpresse.

[Deleted]

Its a german dogwhistle word popular with far-right anti-islamic groups. Interesting to see what brushes off and clings to people when they roam the internet. Clues of where they go.

I guess? would you of tried to derail this less if I just said lying press?

- - - Updated - - -

One man's lugenpresse is another man's wahrhaftigpresse.

Ideally not... I will admit currently that seems to be the case but I blame that more on how bad its gotten over time that people are willing to accept that.

[Skulltaker]

Using the term is pretty weak and usually reflects a poor understanding of the term itself, especially if used in another language. Most people these days rip it out of context. If you cannot express yourself without the use of stimulus words like this it's currently an indicator that you lack arguments.

Say state influenced media, propaganda or biased media. Don't demean yourself by using the terminology of idiots.

[Macaquerie]

People need to stop getting their jimmies rustled over the press. Fundamentally, the press reports what people want to hear, a news outlet that tried to push a sinister agenda that nobody cared about wouldn't get very far. I think people are often in denial about the rapidly changing attitudes in society, and want to believe that the press is responsible for that to make themselves feel better, but the opposite is true.

[Deleted]

People need to stop getting their jimmies rustled over the press. Fundamentally, the press reports what people want to hear, a news outlet that tried to push a sinister agenda that nobody cared about wouldn't get very far. I think people are often in denial about the rapidly changing attitudes in society, and want to believe that the press is responsible for that to make themselves feel better, but the opposite is true.

I can't point my finger on why... but your brand of crazy scares me more then most. Maybe its the whole just drink the kool-aid vibe you give off.

[fooliuscaesar13]

The problem with any kind of press (in my opinion) is that they've strayed from reporting just the facts and entered into an era where an author's "journalistic spin" tends to try to sway a reader instead of just informing a reader.
It is what sells newspapers / pushes web traffic...and therefore, generates revenue. This is why any extreme left / extreme right / whatever style of reporting will never truly be illegal; it's all true (to quote Ben Kenobi) "from a certain point of view".

[Deleted]

because have fun proving that they're lying and not just making 'honest mistakes'

I agree there should be a way to punish them if you can prove they're lying, it's nothing but slander

[Endus]

I guess? would you of tried to derail this less if I just said lying press?

The point is that it's a term with strong ties to Nazi propaganda, and which is predominantly used by right-wing nationalist groups today. Using the English translation isn't making the use of it "better".

If you think that most of the press is "lying", you may want to take a few moments to consider that, just maybe, rather than some global conspiracy, the simplest answer may just be that your viewpoint is wrong.


Edit: Also, since we're basically using the label to apply to "press who say things I don't like/disagree with", talking about whether we should "allow them to exist" is a pretty shocking attack on their freedom of speech.

[Rukh]

People need to stop getting their jimmies rustled over the press. Fundamentally, the press reports what people want to hear, a news outlet that tried to push a sinister agenda that nobody cared about wouldn't get very far. I think people are often in denial about the rapidly changing attitudes in society, and want to believe that the press is responsible for that to make themselves feel better, but the opposite is true.

Also "the press" isn't some sinister omnicorporation that gets together in a giant board meeting of all the news writers and selects their sinister world destroying plan on mondays. It's a whole lot of people with a whole lot of beliefs and motivations. Often contradicting. It just comes off as lazy whenever people start accusing "the press" because reality goes against the narrative they want to exist. Yeah, there's some lazy presswork out there, and sometimes stories are inaccurate or wrong, but that's because a certain person did something less than perfect, not some big "the press" conspiracy.

[Deleted]

The point is that it's a term with strong ties to Nazi propaganda, and which is predominantly used by right-wing nationalist groups today. Using the English translation isn't making the use of it "better".

If you think that most of the press is "lying", you may want to take a few moments to consider that, just maybe, rather than some global conspiracy, the simplest answer may just be that your viewpoint is wrong.
...

Edit: Also, since we're basically using the label to apply to "press who say things I don't like/disagree with", talking about whether we should "allow them to exist" is a pretty shocking attack on their freedom of speech.

If that is the case I need the media to explain why when events are filmed they don't match what they are saying... I can see where you are coming from but it isn't just my view points were I see this happening I can admit to seeing my own ideology using the same tactics

I don't think you should just get a free pass to make shit up that millions of people are going to think its true..

[Macaquerie]

Frankly, media doesn't need to have a sinister motive to do harm.

Yeah but ultimately the responsibility lies with the consumer to not just believe everything they read on the internet and to actually make the effort to get a better picture of the truth. The media just gives people exactly what they want, it may all be a pack of lies, but they are the kind of lies that people want to believe. Maybe we would be better off with stricter standards, but we can never really trust the people enforcing those standards either so we're right back to square one.

[Endus]

If that is the case I need the media to explain why when events are filmed they don't match what they are saying... I can see where you are coming from but it isn't just my view points were I see this happening I can admit to seeing my own ideology using the same tactics

I don't think you should just get a free pass to make shit up that millions of people are going to think its true..

Like Rukh said, "the press" isn't a single entity. If you have an issue with one particular reporter misrepresenting facts, then you get to take issue with that one reporter. And if it's just that you don't agree with their interpretation of the facts, then there's no "lying" involved.

And really, in pretty much every case I've seen people drag out, that's what it amounts to.

There are already libel and slander laws that cover any ACTUAL, deliberate lies. The reason those don't get applied very often is because they almost never apply.

[Deleted]

Yeah but ultimately the responsibility lies with the consumer to not just believe everything they read on the internet and to actually make the effort to get a better picture of the truth. The media just gives people exactly what they want, it may all be a pack of lies, but they are the kind of lies that people want to believe. Maybe we would be better off with stricter standards, but we can never really trust the people enforcing those standards either so we're right back to square one.

I would suggest adding penalties should it be revealed that people were lying. What those penalties be could range from quite sever fines to possible jail time. Give them a reason not too..

[Endus]

I would suggest adding penalties should it be revealed that people were lying. What those penalties be could range from quite sever fines to possible jail time. Give them a reason not too..

These already exist. Libel and slander laws.