[FIRE] Legion Beta Megathread

[Recom]

Idk man, they're neglecting Mage pretty hard. Frost has been practically untouched since release so I'm very skeptical. They might keep this laughable 12s duration.

They might, they might not, there's no way to tell therefore there's no need to complain. Whinning isn't feedback.

[Polarthief]

They might, they might not, there's no way to tell therefore there's no need to complain. Whinning isn't feedback.

I like how any amount of negative discussion is always seen as whining or crying. I'm sitting here laughing at an uncontrollable bomb with a 12s duration. They could have easily changed the duration this build as well.

[Recom]

I like how any amount of negative discussion is always seen as whining or crying. I'm sitting here laughing at an uncontrollable bomb with a 12s duration. They could have easily changed the duration this build as well.

Don't get me wrong, complaining about the duration is 100% fine but backing that with shit like "mage is neglected" isn't because it's in no way constructive.

Yeah they could have, that's true and fair, but if they change it next build, does it matter ?

[Nihiel]

I've been playing around with fire on the alpha, any mention of the flame orb hovering above one's shoulder being removed? It's not appearing for me at least, despite having 1-3 charges of Phoenix's Flames. And damn the new Flamestrike animation is sexy as hell - too bad the demonic Phoenix's Flames animation still looks like it came out of Melisandre's womb...

[Deleted]

I tested the LB behaviour.
1. It does NOT explode/spread if you refresh it right before the explosion
2. It does NOT explode/spread if the current target dies.
3. The cooldown is reduced by haste.

Bad.

I've been playing around with fire on the alpha, any mention of the flame orb hovering above one's shoulder being removed? It's not appearing for me at least, despite having 1-3 charges of Phoenix's Flames. And damn the new Flamestrike animation is sexy as hell - too bad the demonic Phoenix's Flames animation still looks like it came out of Melisandre's womb...

I guess the flame orbs got removed because we actually do no longer have a stack for Phoenix Flame as It's a new spell with charges now.

[Imnick]

They could have had an orb per charge instead, that's how I assumed it would work. A shame if they are just gone.

- - - Updated - - -

To be honest they should have use Kael'Thas' other talent instead, where Flamestrike applies living bomb >_>

[whisperingsage]

They could also make it so Flamestrike spreads it instead of Inferno Blast. But either way, why have flame patch in that case?

[Zenny]

Don't get me wrong, complaining about the duration is 100% fine but backing that with shit like "mage is neglected" isn't because it's in no way constructive.

Yeah they could have, that's true and fair, but if they change it next build, does it matter ?

Maybe neglecting is harsh, but Mages keep getting very little changes as builds go by, I think the only significant change to Arcane since it was made available has been Arcane Explosion. The lack of changes to some of the oldest looking core spell animations is also disappointing.

Now we have this half baked living bomb change, that appears to have very little thought put into it, I think feeling frustrated at this point is quite justified.

[Rothex]

Kinda sad about the Flame Orb thing getting removed, it was a cool visual. Considering that it was only 1 orb for months on end, I'm gonna assume they might not have been able to get multiple orb visuals to work properly with the charges so just found it easier to remove them entirely.

Don't get me wrong, complaining about the duration is 100% fine but backing that with shit like "mage is neglected" isn't because it's in no way constructive.

Given the amount of feedback that has been given over the last 3-4 months about the large quantity of concerns and problems with certain spells/talents/etc, very little has actually been changed or addressed. When the majority of feedback is ignored and every other class is getting a ton of revision every single build while Mages are getting next to nothing, it's pretty valid to feel like Mages are getting neglected.

I'm gonna assume the only changes over the next couple of builds will be about fixing Living Bomb and again not addressing the other concerns.

[Recom]

Maybe neglecting is harsh, but Mages keep getting very little changes as builds go by, I think the only significant change to Arcane since it was made available has been Arcane Explosion. The lack of changes to some of the oldest looking core spell animations is also disappointing.

You can't expect major things to happen all the time. Arcane, overall, was heavily changed and in the right direction. They could do more, sure, but it's already one of the most successful overhaul of Legion and you can't dismiss that.

Now we have this half baked living bomb change, that appears to have very little thought put into it, I think feeling frustrated at this point is quite justified.

Or they're just trying to see if they are happy with the idea before tweaking it ? It's Blizzard we're talking about, they iterate a lot, and they don't do it for us, they do it for them. If they like it, they'll keep it and then we can start asking for QoL tweaks. Unless it's a critical issue, which it is not.

[Imnick]

Mages have absolutely had concerns listened to.
Ice Block stopped being a talent and they verbatim took player suggestions to turn the artifact ability into a separate button from Pyroblast, to name just two examples.
Once you've tried the new living bomb and dislike it, tell them. That's literally what this testing phase is for.

[Recom]

Given the amount of feedback that has been given over the last 3-4 months about the large quantity of concerns and problems with certain spells/talents/etc, very little has actually been changed or addressed. When the majority of feedback is ignored and every other class is getting a ton of revision every single build while Mages are getting next to nothing, it's pretty valid to feel like Mages are getting neglected.

I'm gonna assume the only changes over the next couple of builds will be about fixing Living Bomb and again not addressing the other concerns.

Tons of revision ? We must have looked at different patchnotes then, besides DH, Survival and Demonology, other classes/specs had changes of the same magnitude as Mage.

Let's sum up what we got :
- arcane's mastery was changed which completely changes the rotation flow, AoE was changed as well (unfinished imo but still)
- combustion was changed which affects the rotation heavily, in addition IB in itself makes the rotation like no other and you can't really see it until you try it AND the artifact is a core rotational spell (the only one of the kind IIRC)
- frost wasn't changed as much besides FO reset (still big to me) but at leasts most of the talents are ok

Arcane and Fire talents are still a problem and weren't changed as much as say DK or Shaman but that's because DK's and Shaman's were never changed before (unlike Mage's) and were dog shit (unlike Mage's).

I mean look at Balance, they only get number changes, SP is still a shitfest. Sure mage needs some work (especially on talents) but we're looking VERY good compared to other range/casters.

[Rothex]

I wasn't talking about the initial revamp of each spec. Yes, most specs got a bit of an overhaul which is great. But I was talking about afterwards once everything was available for testing and feedback starts to come in about the changes they've made. This is what I was referring to.

Only a few changes have been made to the initial revamp; like Ice Block returning, old Shimmer changing, separating Phoenix, and a few of the passive talents have been changed, for example. These have mainly been about big issues that lots of Mages have complained about. However, there have been concerns raised about Cinderstorm, tier 15, tier 75, Cauterizing Blink, defensives, GI/Invisibility, and more, for like at least 3-4 months and nothing has been addressed with those. Yes, Blizz have made definitely listed to some concerns in the last couple of months and made some appropriate changes but there's been a lot of stuff they have, in my opinion, just ignored. All of those changes they made were months ago and it feels like Blizz is coming to the conclusion of "Mages are done" when there's still feedback being given that isn't being addressed.

[Synadrasa]

Mages have absolutely had concerns listened to.
Ice Block stopped being a talent and they verbatim took player suggestions to turn the artifact ability into a separate button from Pyroblast, to name just two examples.
Once you've tried the new living bomb and dislike it, tell them. That's literally what this testing phase is for.

You don't need people to test the new living bomb to know it is worse than before.

[Polarthief]

You don't need people to test the new living bomb to know it is worse than before.

Now if the timer was 3s, and the death explosion spread the bomb too, and the bomb refreshed itself on the main target, and the bomb could endlessly spread, then it'd be better.

There's pretty much no other way to keep the new mechanic and make it on par/better than the old version.

[pyrostorm9001]

However the old LB is kinda shit too. You dont take it for single target (UM and blastwave are miles better) and using IB to spread it meaningfully means missed opportunity for converting a heating up proc. Spending IB on heating up means poor use of LB.

Not having to worry about spreading LB is quite welcome for me. New LB with shorter duration and explosion death would be perfect for me.

[Sarm]

I know not many people care about it, but one thing I like about the current Living Bomb is that it's a fantastic tool for tagging multiple enemies from a distance. And by the time they get to you, a good chunk of the duration has already gone by so they've set themselves up for group explosions. The Legion LB looks like that'd be impossible to make work, because you'd have to rely on 20+ seconds of enemies grouped up and aggroed on you just to get it to spread around and blow up. It makes the ability seem like it'd be much more limited to me.

After the buff to fire's crit early in the expansion, Living Bomb spreading was rarely a problem to me. I'd crit just often enough that I'd put it up whenever, and just rely on my next Heating Up proc so I'd get my next Pyro at the same time I'd spread it around.

Edit: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742985839#15

Bomb's still meant to detonate and spread on target death. At least now nobody will have to worry about stuff dying too early. Now it's just hoping you don't bomb the last-living enemy.

[Rothex]

and using IB to spread it meaningfully means missed opportunity for converting a heating up proc. Spending IB on heating up means poor use of LB.

While this can happen, it's not a massive problem IMO. The fact that we sometimes have to sacrifice a Heating Up to spread LB does not make the spec completely unfunctionable. Fire still works and is not disadvantaged by having this. Yes it can be disappointing to waste a proc but now we'll soon have 2 charges of Inferno Blast, meaning the probability we'd get screwed over by the proc or spread dilemma wont be as bad. Heck, even with Flame On we're even less likely to be impacted by it.

Tbh, I prefer having the control over LB. It makes it feel more meaningful over when and where I spread it. This makes me feel like I've played it correctly and I get a feeling of reward from that. Simply pressing it and forgetting about it for 24 seconds because it does it automatically without being able to be controlled sounds pretty boring and sometimes frustrating to me if it gets screwed up by someone else (like the tank moving the LB add away, messing up the chain).

I know not many people care about it, but one thing I like about the current Living Bomb is that it's a fantastic tool for tagging multiple enemies from a distance.

Yeah I like this function too. It makes running old content/raids/dungeons easier and quicker when I can just spam LB on everything non-stop without having to go outta the way to manually cast on them to pull them.

[Deleted]

I did some heroic dungeons and fire damage seems really low compared to other specs. I'm stuck at ~ 110k dps while others do more than 200k single target with >1mio crit (and fire just ~100k crits). You can't even match up with trash groups. /sad.

[Polarthief]

Don't worry about (damage) numbers. Tuning hasn't really happened yet. Right now we need to get LB fixed up, as well as, well, a lot of other Fire problems (CB and PI for example).