[Movie] Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

[Teph]

Who thought it would be a good idea to let supes "die". It really did build up a lot of tension for the last scene. Would have never guessed that he is still alive. Wow.

[Kelimbror]

I guess it is slightly misleading but I was coming more form an opinion basis rather than fact because i couldn't tell you factually.

Then what's the point of even putting your hat in? If we're not going to discuss facts, wtf are we even discussing? You can't have an opinion on a quantifiable category. You want the most popular character, there is a way to gauge that...with numbers. We have those numbers. There is no room for opinion.

Superman has been a shit hero for a long time because no one knows how to write him. His power set and typical villain/plot makes him boring. He's invincible and faces almost no conflict. Their idea to make him 'interesting' is to make him dark and edgy. But alas, that's already taken by Batman. So there's nothing really left for him. He's best as an ensemble piece and used sparingly.

Everyone wants to be superman for the same reason they want to travel in time or be a vampire, because they think they could do anything they want. It has nothing to do with the character himself which is why no one really likes him. Superman is boring AF.

[Gemini Soul]

This should of been split into 2 movies, Batman with Lex pulling strings and other movie about Doomsday.

Superman vs Batman and Superman vs Doomsday are 2 of his more iconic and popular fights, they put both into a blender hit frappe and poured us this one movie.

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Who thought it would be a good idea to let supes "die". It really did build up a lot of tension for the last scene. Would have never guessed that he is still alive. Wow.

Doomsday kills Superman and Superman comes back to life after a while, its cannon iirc from before this movie came out.

[Mace]

Then what's the point of even putting your hat in? If we're not going to discuss facts, wtf are we even discussing? You can't have an opinion on a quantifiable category. You want the most popular character, there is a way to gauge that...with numbers. We have those numbers. There is no room for opinion.

Superman has been a shit hero for a long time because no one knows how to write him. His power set and typical villain/plot makes him boring. He's invincible and faces almost no conflict. Their idea to make him 'interesting' is to make him dark and edgy. But alas, that's already taken by Batman. So there's nothing really left for him. He's best as an ensemble piece and used sparingly.

Everyone wants to be superman for the same reason they want to travel in time or be a vampire, because they think they could do anything they want. It has nothing to do with the character himself which is why no one really likes him. Superman is boring AF.

boring is your opinion (which I defintiely don't share- that's another discussion though), but i do agree he is much harder to write because of his attributes, which are also what make him so amazing and appealing too.. and also why I would not have been surprised if they finally killed off superman solving that problem.

but we can't use the facts we have available to conclude who's most popular, there is always going to be an element of gut feeling which is opinion based, the so-called cold hard facts only show what they show, but any realist would correctly admit, that it could and probably is way off.

You'd have to be able to honestly factor in everyone's opinion. Because who's more widely known, more highly regarded and more liked has the last two entirely opinion based, and the first just a matter of who's heard. And we're talking worldwide, not just who you might think matters.

So on that basis, how else can we do this? All I can do, like I mentioned earlier is say, I think Superman's the most popular, and draw that based on my experiences where I have been around the world in my decade, and 80s kids, may think differently from 90s kids and differently from 00s kids - and those before like 60s/70s would be very different still yet.

But overall, I feel Superman's the #1, Spiderman is #1 for revenue and distribution, I also think he's the 7-15 year old favourite amongst boys. But Superman's the most revered, and I definitely feel more in the world know him.

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This should of been split into 2 movies, Batman with Lex pulling strings and other movie about Doomsday.

Superman vs Batman and Superman vs Doomsday are 2 of his more iconic and popular fights, they put both into a blender hit frappe and poured us this one movie.

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Doomsday kills Superman and Superman comes back to life after a while, its cannon iirc from before this movie came out.

i suspect it feels that way now, but it would make more sense when we are further along in the release titles.

Am I the only one that felt Doomsday (Zod 2.0) was quite a spectacular debut, and that we've not heard the end of him only the very beginning?

But maybe I'm so positive about the movie becasue I really liked it and finding it hard to agree with much of the criticism, and seems I have a lot of time on my hand to type this.

[Skulltaker]

Am I the only one that felt Doomsday (Zod 2.0) was quite a spectacular debut, and that we've not heard the end of him only the very beginning?

I don't know much about Doomsday, but I think he suffers a lot from the problem that he has very little character. He's the Hulk minus Bruce Banners Brain. It's hard to write a story around him. I know they have tried to give him a story, but that would need it's own movie with background, and that has passed. Either they give the character an overhaul in regards of his backstory and make him more then a mere beast, or he's justa force of nature. You could have an orgy of special effects battle, though. I'd hope they go for the more interesting villains, though. Steppenwolf's(?) appearance in the uncut version might be an indicator towards that.

[Mace]

I don't know much about Doomsday, but I think he suffers a lot from the problem that he has very little character. He's the Hulk minus Bruce Banners Brain. It's hard to write a story around him. I know they have tried to give him a story, but that would need it's own movie with background, and that has passed. Either they give the character an overhaul in regards of his backstory and make him more then a mere beast, or he's justa force of nature. You could have an orgy of special effects battle, though. I'd hope they go for the more interesting villains, though. Steppenwolf's(?) appearance in the uncut version might be an indicator towards that.

here's hwo i think they might do it, also knowing nothing about the character.. he seems to be a fusion of Zod and some sort of alien, Lex scene talks about a metamorphosis, a fusion that was forbidden - isn't his backstroy Zod's then and the alien process that causes him to be?

so all you'd need is a little history lesson on the tech and whatever alien species concerns him, and you can show that in flashback scenes, narrative scenes, as for the rest, well all we saw was birth and power, and it was enough for this, ifh eis also a super intelligent being, then the new character can be fleshed out later in subsequent movies that involve him right?

i don't see the problem there

[Chaosinciter]

here's hwo i think they might do it, also knowing nothing about the character.. he seems to be a fusion of Zod and some sort of alien, Lex scene talks about a metamorphosis, a fusion that was forbidden - isn't his backstroy Zod's then and the alien process that causes him to be?

so all you'd need is a little history lesson on the tech and whatever alien species concerns him, and you can show that in flashback scenes, narrative scenes, as for the rest, well all we saw was birth and power, and it was enough for this, ifh eis also a super intelligent being, then the new character can be fleshed out later in subsequent movies that involve him right?

i don't see the problem there

The biggest issue with Doomsday's appearance/"birth" in the film was (least compared those who know of his origin story) almost all of Doomsday's origins have him as a creature that was created/born on Krypton during it's ancient times (far before Superman) whose only emotions pretty much are of Destruction and Hatred. And in New 52 as someone who even fought Zod and was defeated by Zod. That's the main reason why his appearance in BvS is so jarring and odd to those who are fans of DC.

[ringpriest]

2. He character was absolutely annoying. I think Jessie wanted to play Joker but they werent going to give him Joker. Or maybe in some obsure early draft Luther was the Joker (which you make the story make a bit more sense but ruin the Joker they have for Suicide Squad so I guess you have to decide which Joker you want more). They though they could change the Joker into Luthor Jr but we see how that worked out...

3. Lex was completely unhinged at this point, of course his actions were illogical. They didn't do a good job at explaining anything about Lex though. I also wouldn't be surprised if Darkseid wasn't manipulating Lex, alluded to by some of the final scenes.
...

Remembers Lex's philosophical equation where he said God can be All-Powerful or All-Good but not both. He wanted to force Superman to pick one. Of course Lex was insane.

I walked out of the theater with the impression that at some point in its backstory, the script had both the Joker and Lex Luthor as villains, but that for whatever reason, a decision had been made to merge willy-nilly them into a single Luthor role - it's the only thing I can come up with to explain this bizarre take on Luthor; of course, the whole film (with the exception of Wonder Woman who is excellent, perhaps by virtue of being as little connected to the plot as possible while still being in the movie) is a bizarre take on what such a film (even a dark version) should be like.

[Mace]

The biggest issue with Doomsday's appearance/"birth" in the film was (least compared those who know of his origin story) almost all of Doomsday's origins have him as a creature that was created/born on Krypton during it's ancient times (far before Superman) whose only emotions pretty much are of Destruction and Hatred. And in New 52 as someone who even fought Zod and was defeated by Zod. That's the main reason why his appearance in BvS is so jarring and odd to those who are fans of DC.

hmm.interesting, so it appears they've changed the story? or maybe they just didn't explain enough or well enough what exactly was happening in that space craft, that Lex was waking up this creature, but this creatures rebirth needed kryptonian dna to revive it?

[zerocarbs]

Since when was one of the ship's functions to create monsters? All we saw was Lex add his blood to Zod and the goo. Why did the monster need Lex's blood? Was there something explained that I missed? It was so odd.

[Chaosinciter]

hmm.interesting, so it appears they've changed the story? or maybe they just didn't explain enough or well enough what exactly was happening in that space craft, that Lex was waking up this creature, but this creatures rebirth needed kryptonian dna to revive it?

Yeah they changed the story for it to make sense of how Doomsday was able to get to Earth as from his corresponding story arc, at this time he should've been still banished to the Phantom Zone and the way he escapes is cause the walls of the Phantom Zone are failing. It's typically what happens when dealing with anything in the cinematic universe, story is altered sometimes minorly (this case was a pretty large change) to bring in villains for the main cast to fight.

From what I understood from the scene is that the "Genetic Chamber" or whatever it was called was kind of a genetics altering bay, so requiring Zod's body as organic matter for the host body, then a second source of DNA (Lex's blood) as a mutator, but in such a case where the two materials are incompatible it always results in Doomsday being created (again this is just the best explanation of the events that I could figure to explain the scenario that happened.)

[Deleted]

That movie was trash. I thought the critics might have been being harsh but holy shit.

[Mace]

Yeah they changed the story for it to make sense of how Doomsday was able to get to Earth as from his corresponding story arc, at this time he should've been still banished to the Phantom Zone and the way he escapes is cause the walls of the Phantom Zone are failing. It's typically what happens when dealing with anything in the cinematic universe, story is altered sometimes minorly (this case was a pretty large change) to bring in villains for the main cast to fight.

From what I understood from the scene is that the "Genetic Chamber" or whatever it was called was kind of a genetics altering bay, so requiring Zod's body as organic matter for the host body, then a second source of DNA (Lex's blood) as a mutator, but in such a case where the two materials are incompatible it always results in Doomsday being created (again this is just the best explanation of the events that I could figure to explain the scenario that happened.)

So this thing is kinda Lex and Zod's son. I bet it was done this way to change or mutate the role of Lex

that might possibly explain why Lex is portrayed as so unhinged, it gives Doomsday a very mad edge too - but they shouldn't need that for an unhinged doomsday - an abomination is normally explanation enough

[Deleted]

Since when was one of the ship's functions to create monsters? All we saw was Lex add his blood to Zod and the goo. Why did the monster need Lex's blood? Was there something explained that I missed? It was so odd.

Ship had some kind of Genesis Chamber and they could actually make those monsters, but it was forbidden. This is what wikipedia says, but in the movie this wasn't explained at all. Lex just brings Zods body to that chamber and next time we see that ship, doomsday hatches.

Zack Snyder also said, that they will tell Doomsday origins in JL movie (Good that they explain it, but why didn't they do it in this movie instead >.<)

[pateuvasiliu]

Great film. My main issue was with Lex, who was a clown. I thought the whole bubbly thing was just to get people on his side but he was like that even when he was being his true self. And that's... really weird. I'm used to that evil, smooth guy from the JL cartoons and the deep voice he had.


Apart from that, everything felt great. Batfleck is great, Wonder Woman was awesome and the battle scenes were really good.

7-8 for sure.

[Mace]

Ship had some kind of Genesis Chamber and they could actually make those monsters, but it was forbidden. This is what wikipedia says, but in the movie this wasn't explained at all. Lex just brings Zods body to that chamber and next time we see that ship, doomsday hatches.

Zack Snyder also said, that they will tell Doomsday origins in JL movie (Good that they explain it, but why didn't they do it in this movie instead >.<)

it was explained in the movie. Ship tells Lex this is forbidden by the Kryptonian Council and even explains a little. Lex makes an off comment like "and where is the Kryptonian Council now..." and tells the ship to proceed

[Chaosinciter]

Great film. My main issue was with Lex, who was a clown. I thought the whole bubbly thing was just to get people on his side but he was like that even when he was being his true self. And that's... really weird. I'm used to that evil, smooth guy from the JL cartoons and the deep voice he had.


Apart from that, everything felt great. Batfleck is great, Wonder Woman was awesome and the battle scenes were really good.

7-8 for sure.

It's important to remember that this isn't Senior, this is Junior, whom the only Lex Luthor Jr. I remember is the one from Earth 3 who aged really fast and had control over both matter and anti-matter. But in either case he does come off as a bit odd, but he does bring forward a interesting performance none the less which a majority seems to not like yet in the grand scheme of the movie was one of the only characters who portrayed emotions properly in regards to who they were (was him, Batman and Alfred for me everyone else seemed to just be playing a role instead of being the character).

[Mace]

Great film. My main issue was with Lex, who was a clown. I thought the whole bubbly thing was just to get people on his side but he was like that even when he was being his true self. And that's... really weird. I'm used to that evil, smooth guy from the JL cartoons and the deep voice he had.


Apart from that, everything felt great. Batfleck is great, Wonder Woman was awesome and the battle scenes were really good.

7-8 for sure.

yes, i thought it was great too, the D.C men to the marvel boys Avengers. And i'm more in favour of MARVEL. LEx does come off as a clever genius, in many more ways than he has been shown in the past though, here he is not just a brilliant strategist, but sceintist/techie too. But he does have that insane Joker vibe to him, which makes me wonder a bit, I don't mind them showing Lex as unhinged behind the scenes, but a little, such megalomaniacs are often unhinged anyway, but this was more insane Joker/Riddler like

maybe it was an attempt to make him more a Batman villain typeset, given that Doomsday I have since found out is also a Superman villain. But it was un-necessary, given who Superman is, it's obvious that he'd have the grander villains to deal with.

[pateuvasiliu]

Lex is definitely insane but he's the '' I'm the savior of mankind and you just don't get it '' insane not the '' oh let's do crazy shit and laugh about it ". From my understanding of Lex Luthor he's more likely to ally with Superman than Darkseid (which.. he kinda does in the cartoons) because at the end of the day both he and Supes want humanity's best. Lex's way of achieving it is just evil/morally questionable.


So Lex being happy about Darkseid coming to fuck shit up is atypical. I'd rather see him start plans to combat his imminent invasion.

[Deleted]

I enjoyed as a film as I went in with little expectations but I didn't notice some plot holes like when did lex finds out who batman and superman are? And was Gotham always so close to metropolis