[Pre-Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Baelroc]

I am happy and super excited that they finally decided to give Blade Dance a second look and what possibly seems like an identity.
Also happy that Demonic is max level talent. Its power was significant and the change was logical. Demon Blades woooo free fury without losing Demon Bite.
They looked into Havoc and took some serious decisions. The only thing I think could be avoided was removing the extra targets for Throw Glaive trait. That was actually a nice trait for aoe and bloodlet.

It seems the Demon Blades change is simply a tooltip change. It actually still replaces Demon's Bite. Not sure if intended.

[bloodkraven]

I am happy and super excited that they finally decided to give Blade Dance a second look and what possibly seems like an identity.
Also happy that Demonic is max level talent. Its power was significant and the change was logical. Demon Blades woooo free fury without losing Demon Bite.
They looked into Havoc and took some serious decisions. The only thing I think could be avoided was removing the extra targets for Throw Glaive trait. That was actually a nice trait for aoe and bloodlet.

The tooltip for Demon Blades is wrong right now in the current build as it still removes Demons' Bite.

[Baelroc]

RotI seems to be working right now as it grants you a buff when you have FotI active. I really do hope they rework both of these traits as they just seem to fall flat compared to what other specs get. I mean AoE damage is nice and all but when its active it just feels really meh.

Agreed. When I saw "Havoc Artifact traits revised" I was really hoping they would get more into revamping FotI and RotI. I won't complain that Blade Dance is finally on the artifact though, but was hoping for alot more.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Since I apparently can't let go of this class, here's an interesting tidbit I found:

They are redesigning the Mythic armor, it seems. Looks totally different from new icons than in the model previews of T19 Mythic.

[Baelroc]

Since I apparently can't let go of this class, here's an interesting tidbit I found:

They are redesigning the Mythic armor, it seems. Looks totally different from new icons than in the model previews of T19 Mythic.

These look good. I liked the old ones also though. Hopefully they will be available as well.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

There's also the small likelihood this might be T20. But who knows.

[TheLimonTree]

Agreed. When I saw "Havoc Artifact traits revised" I was really hoping they would get more into revamping FotI and RotI. I won't complain that Blade Dance is finally on the artifact though, but was hoping for alot more.

I keep hoping they change FotI back to the one where you leap to the target or similar, as the current design is just boring.

[neck deep]

I keep hoping they change FotI back to the one where you leap to the target or similar, as the current design is just boring.

pls no. that steaming pile of shit is rotting where it belongs.

the current fury of the illidari may not be the worlds most interesting button press but it's damage per time spent casting, with roti is one of the best in the game. SINGLE TARGET. when you use it to aoe and the subsequent aoe explosion hit's a single target, like ring padding now, it's going to be absolutely monstrous. changing the visual and the terrible mechanic in which it's aoe oscillates is more than enough of a fix for foti.

[Factor]

pls no. that steaming pile of shit is rotting where it belongs.

the current fury of the illidari may not be the worlds most interesting button press but it's damage per time spent casting, with roti is one of the best in the game. SINGLE TARGET. when you use it to aoe and the subsequent aoe explosion hit's a single target, like ring padding now, it's going to be absolutely monstrous. changing the visual and the terrible mechanic in which it's aoe oscillates is more than enough of a fix for foti.

Coming from a class (Warrior) with an essentially identical spell to FotI in Ravager I can say it is going to end up being a very frustrating ability to use.

[pixelated senpai]

There's also the small likelihood this might be T20. But who knows.

Most likely, would be strange if they did a full 180 on gear design that drastically. Kneecap boots!!!

[neck deep]

Coming from a class (Warrior) with an essentially identical spell to FotI in Ravager I can say it is going to end up being a very frustrating ability to use.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...kdeep/advanced

ravager is fine, and ravager is also more like death and decay than fury. fury shares more in common with mirror of the blademaster, and that trinket is phenomenal. i really don't think it's going to be an issue, and i say that as someone who has managed to put a ravager on the roof of nearly half the boss rooms in hfc.

[Baelroc]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...kdeep/advanced

ravager is fine, and ravager is also more like death and decay than fury. fury shares more in common with mirror of the blademaster, and that trinket is phenomenal. i really don't think it's going to be an issue, and i say that as someone who has managed to put a ravager on the roof of nearly half the boss rooms in hfc.

I would be fine with a visual update. It looks like garbage right now. Make it a fel green whirl that is anchored on your character (instead of placed), and I would be happy.

[Factor]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...kdeep/advanced

ravager is fine, and ravager is also more like death and decay than fury. fury shares more in common with mirror of the blademaster, and that trinket is phenomenal. i really don't think it's going to be an issue, and i say that as someone who has managed to put a ravager on the roof of nearly half the boss rooms in hfc.

Its the potential to use an important long CD ability who's use can be negated by boss/mob movement that I find frustrating. There are times when I love Ravager and there are times when I put it down only to have the tank make an adjustment and now the boss is just out of its range.That's why I champion having the blades orbit around you the player instead of a non-moving swirl. The ability becomes more about you and your time on target than praying the mob stays in its AOE for the spells entirety.

[neck deep]

Its the potential to use an important long CD ability who's use can be negated by boss/mob movement that I find frustrating. There are times when I love Ravager and there are times when I put it down only to have the tank make an adjustment and now the boss is just out of its range.That's why I champion having the blades orbit around you the player instead of a non-moving swirl. The ability becomes more about you and your time on target than praying the mob stays in its AOE for the spells entirety.

i mean that idea is fine especially since it makes more sense to use your glaives as a hula hoop but it's not the end of the world in either scenario. i think skillfully placing aoe like ravager, dnd, and now fury is part of the depth of the spell, and part of why it's also balanced in how much damage per cast it can do. ravager doesn't do any damage, so the reward feels like it's not there. fury on the other hand, does fantastic damage when taking in to account rage, which you should because everyone will eventually max artifacts. i'd be fine with them making the glaives orbit you but i also feel like we'd be trading off some damage potential for that change, and i personally don't like losing damage potential.

[Baelroc]

i mean that idea is fine especially since it makes more sense to use your glaives as a hula hoop but it's not the end of the world in either scenario. i think skillfully placing aoe like ravager, dnd, and now fury is part of the depth of the spell, and part of why it's also balanced in how much damage per cast it can do. ravager doesn't do any damage, so the reward feels like it's not there. fury on the other hand, does fantastic damage when taking in to account rage, which you should because everyone will eventually max artifacts. i'd be fine with them making the glaives orbit you but i also feel like we'd be trading off some damage potential for that change, and i personally don't like losing damage potential.

I totally understand this point, I guess my contention comes in that (barring results from this new build), Havoc would not be unjustified in just getting a baseline damage buff as they are fairly low to middle of the pack damage wise. So keeping its damage the same, while making it anchored to the player wouldn't be too much.

But I agree, if I had to choose between keeping it targeted vs losing damage, I would keep it targeted. (But please change the animation)

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Seeing a couple people say that VR now vaults back much faster now, and that it actually makes animation cancelling better? Could someone clarify how exactly? Genuinely curious.

Also, First Blood seems to indicate that it makes Blade Dance attack a few more times instead of just increasing it's damage: can anyone confirm if that's true or not and if there's any kind of animation change to go along with it?

Based on what someone said a bit ago, Fel Barrage is working, it's actually channeling too. Channel time stays the same and always hits 5 times but increases in damage per stack according to @Warstar at least. Did it get a graphical update? Is the channel really only 1 second?

[Warstar]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...kdeep/advanced

ravager is fine, and ravager is also more like death and decay than fury. fury shares more in common with mirror of the blademaster, and that trinket is phenomenal. i really don't think it's going to be an issue, and i say that as someone who has managed to put a ravager on the roof of nearly half the boss rooms in hfc.

I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate Mirror of the Blademaster. Hate it. Hate it so much. Same thing as when playing on my mage with prismatic crystal. It's a really good trinket. So I want it to do the damage that it's supposed to do. Except stupid dumb retarded tanks just love to drag mobs out of it. Big group all grouped up so I assume "Hey time to use my Blademaster trinket!" and then seconds after I pop it the tank drags all the mobs out.

[neck deep]

Seeing a couple people say that VR now vaults back much faster now, and that it actually makes animation cancelling better? Could someone clarify how exactly? Genuinely curious.

Also, First Blood seems to indicate that it makes Blade Dance attack a few more times instead of just increasing it's damage: can anyone confirm if that's true or not and if there's any kind of animation change to go along with it?

Vengeful retreat sends you almost directly backwards faster than current hunter disengage where previously you kinda vaulted backwards at a slower, more "floaty" pace. i'd make a video but i'm lazy and vanyali will probably do it anyways.

first blood just deals triple damage per instance of damage now, even though the tooltip states more instances of damage are happening. i'd have to log it to be sure but it doesn't appear to be 9 hits and 3 hits vs 3 hit and 1 hit, just that each hit deals triple damage. animation is the same.

[Warstar]

Seeing a couple people say that VR now vaults back much faster now, and that it actually makes animation cancelling better? Could someone clarify how exactly? Genuinely curious.

Also, First Blood seems to indicate that it makes Blade Dance attack a few more times instead of just increasing it's damage: can anyone confirm if that's true or not and if there's any kind of animation change to go along with it?

Based on what someone said a bit ago, Fel Barrage is working, it's actually channeling too. Channel time stays the same and always hits 5 times but increases in damage per stack according to @Warstar at least. Did it get a graphical update? Is the channel really only 1 second?

VR does launch you back at what feels like twice as fast. But the cancel macro still works the same was as it has when I used it the first day that alpha was out (after the initial DH only wave).

Read the tooltip again for First Blood. All it does is add a X3 modifier to the first mob hit so it does the same as always. But I might be crazy but I swear that the animation for BD goes a lot faster now. [(75% + 2 * 75% + 225%) * (300/100)]. Aka 1 hit for 75% then 2 hits for 75% then 1 hit for 225% and then multiple all of that by 3.

http://imgur.com/8mRrnGY

That's Fel Barrage. Shoots out 5 green fireball looking things.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Does anyone ever use Fel Mastery? Seems like a really bad talent.