Protection legion Discussion

[shyguybman]

someone plz explain this.

http://beta.wowdb.com/items/139037-t...the-windseeker
http://beta.wowdb.com/items/139000-damaged-thunderfury

[Deleted]

Not really. They fixed Vengeance, looks like. Only prot change I see that's not just a tooltip update.

check out indomintable, it now has "increases IP by 25%" tagged onto it, effectively making it just as good as before they removed sta scaling again.

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You are making an awful lot of assumptions here. And unless they change their entire Stam/str scaling paradigm, which has never happened, then this is absolutely a scaling issue, not a tuning issue. They can always adjust and do often adjust spell tuning. Spells are single items. What they almost never do is adjust scaling across wide sections of gear - stat scaling. Could they overhaul the stat scaling? Sure. Will they? History says no. The economy of design says no.

Moreso, though, it's a design issue. I simply started this whole conversation that Stam scaling was better because of the synergy with existing spells and people decided to argue with me. I still can't understand why anyone is defending this change. Would you really rather have a less interesting class to play? Do you hate spell synergy? Or are you just arguing for the sake of argument?

AP and sta on gear both scale liniearly with ilvl, but AP has more percentage increases from talents/passives/mastery/etc then sta does, so wouldn't IP scale stronger with AP then sta? not that it really matters what it scales off blizz will just math it to scale how they want anyways.

indomitable now has the IP increase again though, and yeah it was nice to have it on last stand but i guess 60% health increase is strong enough on it's own.

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someone plz explain this.

http://beta.wowdb.com/items/139037-t...the-windseeker
http://beta.wowdb.com/items/139000-damaged-thunderfury

Thunderaan is the new elemental lord of wind i think, so might have somehting to do with that though i would be surprised if they updated the old questline.

[EricN]

1) Concerning FR - It would be insane to wait till 3 stacks to slam right? We are just going to slam as much as we can within block uptime, and free damage is free damage?

2) What do we think of the Level 90 talents, specifically Vengeance? I think the decision between FR'ing and IP will be something we make during dps pushes in progression - I think this lets the two seemingly polar abilities work better together. My issue though is... why is this a talent? I should have this availability all the time to roll IP's while doing reasonable damage with FR rage dumps. Also, how will this compare to Booming Voice? Which is an insane damage increase. My issue with Booming is that it PUSHES players to not make an intelligent decision with their demo, they just roll it on CD.

3) Second Wind is garbage, why is this a talent?

4) Can I get a cheer for heavy reps?? Finally it's back!

5) So.... If i sblock... i get 30% increased damage, I take heavy reps, its 60% increased damage. this shit is going to hit like a truck..... this brings up the question - if I'm single targetting a patchwerk boss... should i even be revenging? At what point is spamming devastate for SS procs something we do?

[Ashenia]

They did change lvl req for some items so currently I was able to equip much better gear (793) and the amounts of stats on them are quite impressive.

337k IP from 270 last time (Indomitable push it to 421k with 1679k hp) with 1343k hp.
25% Haste (7.19sec SS/Rev)


As for your questions about Vengeance it's a great talent by itself. Normally your IP would cost 40 rage but if you manage to spam FR/IP both each time it will cost you 35 rage - 15 for FR, 20 for IP. It's either that or Into the Fray with faster SS/Rev depending on amount of targets which is a really great idea. I don't really like Booming Voice for it's high CD as other talents will give way more between each casts of DS.

Also if you seen:
http://legion.wowhead.com/item=138489

[Deleted]

Also if you seen:
http://legion.wowhead.com/item=138489

i always wondered how, or rather who, wipes kargaths butt.

[mindw0rk]

This legendary is so much worse then rage > healing legendary

[Ashenia]

Can't say it's an april fool or not but it does not look like so (13h ago post).. Our last shield was supposed to be found in files:

https://youtu.be/i9QAXOwaTgU?t=187

[Cylunaria]

Testing went well, did both fights.

Damage-wise we are preeeeetty strong. I definitely felt like I was able to contribute more than other tanks in that regard so it won't surpise me if we get tuned down slightly there (artifact ability does so much damage and is effected by battle rage for it to crit every single tick).

Defense-wise it's hard to tell how on point the tuning was. Boss melee'd pretty hard but adds barely hit for anything on Cenarius. Then on Tichondrius it was the other way around, boss isn't bad and the adds hit like trucks when they were all up.

Kinda wish I had found a group for testing that was really in their stride. I just joined a random one and it went ok but not crazy good or anything.
Tichondrius logs | Cenarius Logs

Edit: I'm still going over logs, anything I say in this post is pretty much just based on feeling alone from doing it and not actually looking into it yet.

[Ashenia]

Can confirm the above specially with damage wise where I was sometimes top 4 (Tich, because of bloods). As for damage wise, just took Never Surrender and it did the job nicely with some scary moments of going low on adds while pillars were spawning. Compared to druid I tanked with? Pretty even, just more damage we do. That might be tho, because my artifact is quite highly advanced compared to his (with all this dmg inc). I guess the best test would be both plain tanks that just got artifacts.

Only additional thing I could say is:
- almost never used FR
- had SB as much as I could and always IP up, felt like spamming sometimes in high dmg situation, but it holds
- not taking HR for Ravager makes it so annoying, but nothing we cannot handle
- blood lust is a god buff

Assuming nobody comes with a different story that we both can agree on, we are quite settle for the run. Sorting little gaps mentioned in class feedback topic would solve everything and we could only look towards tuning (hopefully nerfs won't be that much included, specially to NS).

[Cylunaria]

I stuck with indomitable for the test just for consistency sake. On Cenarius I definitely see NS being stronger, probably gonna be fight dependent. I think Indom was probably a better option on Tich for example.

[Ashenia]

Tich - could be, only could see huge potential for it (NS) on bloods if rage is consistent and situation where someone screw up dot spreading. On boss it was barely needed due to no damage as you mentioned.

So far I'm quite positive and happy, but let's not get too hyped as there is always a backlash that comes after.

[mindw0rk]

When prot uses IP, there are 2 IP buffs shown - one lasting 5 seconds, and one - about 14s. Can somebody explain whats that and how they differ?

[Ashenia]

its a talent that increase dmg after using IP. Its called Renewed Fury.

[Beardyface]

They should just prune some of these so-so talents (Second Wind, Inspiring Presence, maybe Booming Voice or Best Served Cold) and make a Heroic Strike tier:

Revert Heroic Strike to the way it is on live with less damage and then make a tier like this:

Talents, lvl 30:

Heroic Strike: Causes your Heroic Strike to consume 30 rage to and cause your next autoattack to deal 200% additional damage. No cooldown, Unaffected by the global cooldown

Focused Rage: Causes your Heroic Strike to focus your rage on your next Shield Slam, causing it to deal [Attack power * 175 / 100 * (1 + $versadmg)] additional damage, stacking up to 2 times. Unaffected by the global cooldown - same as alpha, but 2 stacks and same damage at 2 stacks as it is on alpha currently (and I'm sure my math is wrong here, I'm not a math guy).

Raging Strike: Causes your Heroic Strike to focus your rage on your next special ability, causing it to do 20% increased damage. Unaffected by the global cooldown.

These aren't the best examples, but something along these lines. I'd prefer something that changes the rotation somewhat, ala the lvl 60 Ret talent tier, but I feel like they're reserving the additional complexity like that for the DPS specs.

[Deleted]

They should just prune some of these so-so talents (Second Wind, Inspiring Presence, maybe Booming Voice or Best Served Cold) and make a Heroic Strike tier:

Revert Heroic Strike to the way it is on live with less damage and then make a tier like this:

Talents, lvl 30:

Heroic Strike: Causes your Heroic Strike to consume 30 rage to and cause your next autoattack to deal 200% additional damage. No cooldown, Unaffected by the global cooldown

Focused Rage: Causes your Heroic Strike to focus your rage on your next Shield Slam, causing it to deal [Attack power * 175 / 100 * (1 + $versadmg)] additional damage, stacking up to 2 times. Unaffected by the global cooldown - same as alpha, but 2 stacks and same damage at 2 stacks as it is on alpha currently (and I'm sure my math is wrong here, I'm not a math guy).

Raging Strike: Causes your Heroic Strike to focus your rage on your next special ability, causing it to do 20% increased damage. Unaffected by the global cooldown.

These aren't the best examples, but something along these lines. I'd prefer something that changes the rotation somewhat, ala the lvl 60 Ret talent tier, but I feel like they're reserving the additional complexity like that for the DPS specs.

Good idea, man, but please prune the pruning part of your post

Inspiring Presence is a good reason to bring in a Protection Warrior in the raid. (Is there any other class who provides this buff?)
Booming Voice is very good for Protection PvP or situational PvE, it seems awesome! Come on, don't you even dare saying it has to be pruned!
Best Served Cold is good for farming dungeons and off-tanking waves of adds. Not sure if "2 rage per add" is good enough since the other 75 talents are a very strong competition.

The current version of Second Wind is an embarrassment for the Blizzard class design team.

[Beardyface]

Good idea, man, but please prune the pruning part of your post

Inspiring Presence is a good reason to bring in a Protection Warrior in the raid. (Is there any other class who provides this buff?)
Booming Voice is very good for Protection PvP or situational PvE, it seems awesome! Come on, don't you even dare saying it has to be pruned!
Best Served Cold is good for farming dungeons and off-tanking waves of adds. Not sure if "2 rage per add" is good enough since the other 75 talents are a very strong competition.

The current version of Second Wind is an embarrassment for the Blizzard class design team.

Yeah, those talents aren't that bad (aside from Second Wind), but I feel like we could lose Second Wind and at least another couple of talents. I wonder how the rage gain from the extra haste from Into the Fray compares to the rage gain from Best Served Cold. I feel like in the majority of group mob situations (2-3 mobs), the two talents would be comparable. Best Served Cold only looks like it would shine on 3+ mobs. I'm not a math guy, and don't have access to the alpha, so that's just a guess.

As for other talents to replace? Maybe lose Vigilance and make it baseline. Anger Management, maybe - it's a little dull on live. Maybe Bounding Stride. Also, Warbringer seems a little redundant with Shockwave in the same tier.

Or, just leave all the talents the way they are and bring heroic strike the way it is on live. I like what they're trying to do with Focused Rage, but not the way they're doing it. Focused Rage would be fun if it didn't stack and worked on all our damaging spells (except Devastate).

Also can't say I'm not jealous of the options some of the other classes have in their talents - Paladin preferably. Our choices pale in comparison.

I would post this in the feedback, thread, but, like a lot of us, I don't have alpha access. If you do have access and haven't posted yet, post away:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742815798

[Hornnopolis]

Weakest Talents in my opinion. Second Wind, Crackling Thunder and Potentially double time, since we all ready have (2) charges base. There Beardyface freed up (3) talents for you :-)

Heroic Strike tier does sound neat, Still would like to see a Raid Utility Tier, With Demo Banner, Inspiring Presence, and something else, perhaps Vig.

[Khelon]

Crit is not supposed to give parry for prot on alpha right? Would like that ability to come back so battlecry would have some defensive meaning aswell. Would have to increase the cooldown to make it balanced I assume.

[Hornnopolis]

Critical strike still grants parry on alpha just like live, Battle Cry does not effect parry just Damage, no rating value associated with it just percent chance.

[Khelon]

Critical strike still grants parry on alpha just like live, Battle Cry does not effect parry just Damage, no rating value associated with it just percent chance.

Kinda lame now that the ability grant 100% crit instead of giving it to your special attacks. Would still like to see some defensive aspect with it, just like how avenging wrath still gives prot pally 20% more healing.