Why do you believe in Socialism?

[Banshee Prince]

I don't believe in socialism because I'm not some foodstamp-hoarding leech.

[Deleted]

Is that so? Meh...your avatar tells me you are really trying to bait people. But...yeah...never in the history of man has anybody been rich and squandered their fortune based on the pure fact that they inherited money. Never in the history have people made money on warcrimes. They all made their fortunes fair and square by working hard 12 hours a day and being clever. They never cheated, exploited...knew people who know people. You can justify all that by " they're smart". I mean..being smart kinda covers everything

So ancedotal evidence, and antagonism is all you have.

Predictable.

[belfpala]

and how did the billionaire become a billionaire

what kind of responsibility does a billionaire have when he's in charge of a corporate empire?

how important is he compared to the person 'working much harder'

Probably inherited it. And/or made it on the backs of the people working much harder. And he's just as important as his checkbook, unless he's like a Steve Jobs and adds value just by his presence and vision.

[Revi]

The scaling isn't the issue, it could "work" in the US. The problem is that Nordic policies are not conducive to a hegemonic power that needs business, military, and technological advantages to stay that way.

That's probably true. Scandinavian countries has managed to gain a fair amount of influence for their size in different areas, but through charity and diplomacy and other kind of good will, not through brute power. Nordic countries definitely rely heavily on business and technological advantages in their major fields, but could not sustain that kind of military without cutting social spending to cover it.

The question is if the US really needs the military industrial complex that it currently supports. It might very well do, or at be stuck needing it now with the way things have evolved though. That money drain is possibly the largest obstacle.

[Orbitus]

The base idea of socialism is giving people who are in trouble a helping hand, and asking those who have lots to chip in a little more.

What about that could possibly be unappealing?

You may disagree with execution - but how can you stand against that premise?

Because they are gullible. They think that they would be the ones that would be chipping in more in taxes if they are working for $40k a year simply because the millionaires and politicians that would be actually chipping in that money are telling them they would be and they believe it.

[Kellhound]

Cuz I likes to get me free stuffs that I didnt hafta work four.

[PC2]

I hate socialism because roads and fire departments are dumb.

The productivity roads create pay for themselves through taxes. However, if you give food stamps to a poor person, there is no guarantee they will use that nutrition to lead a productive life. Some will, some wont. Regardless, neither of those specific examples cost that much, thus they are no-brainers.

[Gamdwelf]

The productivity roads create pay for themselves through taxes. However, if you give food stamps to a poor person, there is no guarantee they will use that nutrition to lead a productive life. Some will, some wont. Regardless, it neither of those specific examples cost that much, thus they are no-brainers.

And some people use roads for illegal Street racing.

[Orbitus]

and how did the billionaire become a billionaire

what kind of responsibility does a billionaire have when he's in charge of a corporate empire?

how important is he compared to the person 'working much harder'

More than likely that billionaire was willed a bunch of money to start off their "empire", unless they started something during a tech boom like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg did.

[Deleted]

And some people use roads for illegal Street racing.

Everybody needs roads. I certainly don't need food stamps, nor do most people.

The US already has a lot of socialism going on, no need to punish people that actually pull their weight even more by increasing taxes so welfare queens can afford another flatscreen.

[leigonlord]

I don't believe in either frankly. As long as the governing body is comprised of fallible, imperfect, corruptible humans the system will never be perfect or fair. At current democracy/capitalism is the only system that drives humanity to ever greater heights in both science and knowledge and technology. Until the day comes when we can trust a Skynet or HAL 9000 to be our governing agent to maintain fairness democracy/capitalism it shall have to be.

skynet for president

[PC2]

And some people use roads for illegal Street racing.

We should arrest them.

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Everybody needs roads. I certainly don't need food stamps, nor do most people.

Right. SS and health care are the massive expenditures people should focus on.

[Gamdwelf]

We should arrest them.

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Most people don't, SS and health care are the massive expeditures.

How are you for ng to pay for that without disturbing wealth to a police department?

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Everybody needs roads. I certainly don't need food stamps, nor do most people.

The US already has a lot of socialism going on, no need to punish people that actually pull their weight even more by increasing taxes so welfare queens can afford another flatscreen.

#notallpeople.

[Jaylock]

I think you are just grasping to short and totally do not allow for people fucking the system and benefiting from exploits, nepotism ...whatever. You think "working hard" makes you rich? So...a nurse working hard, wiping shit off demented people's arse 12 hrs a day just lives barely surviving and at the same time people like Kim Kadashian being...a daughter of...something and posting tits and ass pictures living the life is not even the same thing..no..the tits and ass showing celebrity is making a million dollars more per day?

That is what you believe in to be fair and proper? We can have it all by just working hard? Seriously..another guaranteed bait topic by the yours truly Jaylock?

I think you know good and well what I mean when I talk about working hard and earning high incomes. Your example of kardashian is an extreme example that is a result of media attention, and people everywhere who want to see what happens next in her life. And shes done a pretty damn good job capitalizing on people's unseeming interest in her life.

Your example of a nurse? Really? The nursing profession is a pretty damn good one, with avg salaries in the 60-90k range in the US. And to become a nurse requires a lot of hard work and schooling.

Getting back to the OT, why do you believe in socialism? I guarantee you people in Canada (using our neighbors as an example) have to pay taxes out the ass to pay for their social services and the entitle welfare state over there. The same is true for other highly socialized nations, and its slowly seeping into the US as well, which sickens me.

Why are you okay with living in a society who collectively thinks its bad to get ahead? Bad to be successful? I mean, a lions share of the posts I see on this very forum demonize and show a lot of contempt for people who are wealthy, yet they don't even note the hard work many of them (most of them) did to get there. You think the CEO of a fortune 500 company got there just by being a lazy entitled idiot? No. They got there often by doing things that the majority of people around them wouldn't do. They worked hard to get there. And now that they are there, people demonize them for making millions of dollars? Thats just wrong.

Look up the story of Chris Gardner. Please.

[PC2]

How are you for ng to pay for that without disturbing wealth to a police department?

You understand we have a mixed economy with all these services right?

Limiting socialism =/= Anarchy

[A dot Ham]

This is a genuine question, as it somewhat baffles me why people would allow themselves to believe in this concept.

Why do you believe in Socialism?

What is it about the idea of wealth redistribution that is so appealing to you?

I have always subscribed to the idea that if one works hard, educates themselves, become part of a business or cause, and or builds their own business that they should be rewarded for their efforts.

Is this line of thinking not popular or appealing anymore? The risk vs reward idea. The lazy vs proactive and hard working. What is it about Socialism that appeals to you so much?

Go play Monopoly and tell us what you learn about capitalism.

[Gamdwelf]

You understand we have a mixed economy with all these services right?

Limiting socialism =/= Anarchy

Well op was talking about any socialism at all.

[PC2]

Go play Monopoly and tell us what you learn about capitalism.

We have regulations against monopolies.

[Vyxn]

Socialism has nothing to do with redistribution of wealth.

so then what do you call it taking wealth from the ones that created it and giving it to others that didn't if that isn't wealth redistribution?

[Deleted]

Yeah...I mean it is cool if you believe that all it takes in a 24 hrs day to be a millionaire vs living at the minimum wage is "hard work". I am sure thousands of social workers, nurses, police men, fire brigade men etc apprechiate that they just don't work hard enough according to your standards.

They're not my standards. They're reasonable standards established by the way our money system works. The more import you have the higher your wage, it is not rocket science.

Everybody gets what they're actually worth and that's fair.

Messing with that system, by punishing the people who are more important to society and giving their money to the ones who are less important is fundamentally unfair. We already do that, to a point. And if you ask me, that's already too much. Taxes are way too high.

If you want more money, become more useful to society. Don't demand handouts.