Why do you believe in Socialism?

[Kellhound]

This little piece of platitude sounds good whenever someone says they have a college education but can't find a good paying job, but then it turned out that useless fields of study made up a fraction of a percent of all degrees, and that people were having a harder time finding higher paying jobs with what were once considered desirable degrees.

Even being a doctor these days has gotten much more difficult when it comes to earning money, as most hospitals and clinics have cut down the number of doctors they have on staff to the bare minimum required, since RN's do pretty much the same thing as most doctors and you can pay them a fraction of what you pay full PhD doctors.

An EE degree still easily gets you $70k+, and it isnt that hard to find a job. BS degrees often have more practical applications than BA degrees as well.

[Deleted]

An EE degree still easily gets you $70k+, and it isnt that hard to find a job. BS degrees often have more practical applications than BA degrees as well.

$100k is a really average pay for engineer.

[Vash The Stampede]

Why do you believe in Socialism?

For the most part, I don't. I support Socialism because it's a stepping stone to a much better solution for what I see is the inevitable. Think of how Star Trek deals with money in the future, in that there isn't any.

What is it about the idea of wealth redistribution that is so appealing to you?

No jobs? No wealth distribution. Money doesn't trickle down as much as it should, and that's where socialism comes in. The wealthy have gotten so... wealthy that they're practically kings and queens. This is why we had WW2, which was to destroy the old monarchy system for democracy. Socialism is just another step forward where we will continue with wealth distribution.

BTW, not all the wealthy have a problem with this.

I have always subscribed to the idea that if one works hard, educates themselves, become part of a business or cause, and or builds their own business that they should be rewarded for their efforts.

That is not usually the case anymore. A lot of well educated people are now working for minimum wage. On top of that, local jobs are lost to foreign labor. Look at what's going on in California with minimum wage set to $15 by 2022. Already companies are looking to replace people with machines. Not that they weren't going to anyway.

The private sector is by no means in debt to supply you well paying jobs. Their only interest is to make money. Look at the situation with Disney replacing IT workers with H-1B workers. A lot of those educated people will need to be educated again in order to get a better paying job, which they can't afford either. Back in the late 1800's, we made education mandatory, up to high school level. But that made sense back then where the average life expediency of humans was 45. Today, humans live much longer, and therefore education should extend to college as well. And because technology is changing so rapidly, a lot of people will need to be educated again. Having free college education would really solve this problem.

Is this line of thinking not popular or appealing anymore? The risk vs reward idea. The lazy vs proactive and hard working. What is it about Socialism that appeals to you so much?

Remember, it isn't socialism but Democratic socialism. Most first world countries, like America, are democratic socialists. Things like education, garbage, roads, mail, and social security are examples of Democratic socialism. But people tend to overlook this because they're either so stupid, or so well programmed by the media to think Democratic socialism is socialism is communism.

Keep in mind that we can see the future of humanity, and the next 14 years will produce amazing changes. We as a society are not ready for these changes. By the year 2025 automation will certainly have taken a lot of desk jobs, specifically AI. By 2025, very few people will be driving vehicles to deliver goods or transport people, as the vehicles can do this themselves. By the year 2030, we would have cured aging. So those old useless elderly people are probably going to start working again, and jobs by 2030 are a finite amount. George Church claims he can do it in 5 years, and I believe him. By the year 2040, all diseases ranging from HIV to aging will be cured. They were able to use CRISPR to remove HIV from a Cell.

Do you not see the problem by avoiding socialism because a bunch of idiots told you so, and you believe them? Because some believe that the poor want all your money that you worked hard for, and that they're too lazy to get a job to support themselves. Meanwhile, corporations have avoided paying $200B in taxes, because of a loophole.

Look at what Amazon has to replace workers at their shipping facilities. Your job may look secure now, but at some point those robots will replace you, and you'll be looking for free education and free income while you look for a job. Socialism doesn't even fix this problem, just slows the bleeding for now.

[Celista]

An EE degree still easily gets you $70k+, and it isnt that hard to find a job. BS degrees often have more practical applications than BA degrees as well.

I'm not sure how often it needs to be reiterated in this thread, but some people seem to think there is an endless supply of well paying engineering jobs and that an increased supply of individuals with engineering degrees will have no negative effect on wages whatsoever.

[breadisfunny]

either post what you want to say or don't post anything. i'm not dignifying your lazyness by watching that video.

[Deleted]

either post what you want to say or don't post anything. i'm not dignifying your lazyness by watching that video.

Hah! Now I know you are not from Europe

[Kellhound]

You are grossly overstating the cognitive requirements for an engineering degree. Not that it matters, as we cannot have a functioning economy where everyone is an electrical engineer.

Engineering and science classes usually at least require some studying and the ability to reason, which is far above most non-engineering/non-science classes. (In my experience at least.)

True, we need lots of stupid people to do menial work, which is good because the US is full of mostly stupid people.

[breadisfunny]

They do? That's news for me... They are doing well, but not quite on the level of the US.

your right they are doing better because they have a social safety net and don't leave their poor to die on the street like the u.s. does.

[Sury]

Aw geez, do we have to get on a tangent about this? This string is already scattered all over hell's creation.

On the bailouts, it would have had much better results if the banks had been nationalized for a while (a "bank holiday" declared), the bastards responsible thrown in the clink, while the gov't got the markets back on track and reinstituted Glass-Steagall. Not trillions of our money forked over to already super-wealthy thieves and gamblers who fucked up and lost at the Roulette tables.

Capitalism will always survive, because socialism will be there to save it.

No tangent desired here but I am going to pull a Trump for fun by saying, you were serious first! In turn I took a serious approach on the necessity while not exactly fully addressing the ups and downs of the bailout, only that do something out weighed do nothing at that time. Neither of us want to get into a debate about Glass–Steagall and its real impact on the crash. It is ironic though that we are talking about forking over trillions to the super-wealthy in the same topic that folks are talking about wealth redistrobution, scattered indeed. Many people that are talking seriously in this thread do not even understand how much socialism is intertwined with capitalism in the United States. Do not mind me while I go back to just reading the humorous side of this topic and continue to get a good chuckle when I read quotes that call people flatscreen buying welfare queens! Ha!

no need to punish people that actually pull their weight even more by increasing taxes so welfare queens can afford another flatscreen.

[breadisfunny]

Hah! Now I know you are not from Europe

no really! i'm not from europe *gasp* who would have thought that! one does not need to be from europe to know their current situation einstein.

[Kellhound]

I'm not sure how often it needs to be reiterated in this thread, but some people seem to think there is an endless supply of well paying engineering jobs and that an increased supply of individuals with engineering degrees will have no negative effect on wages whatsoever.

No, its the understanding that many, if not most, people really suck at designing things. Most people would fail at being a competent engineer.

[Adam Jensen]

Seriously, what the fuck is up with you Americans and 'socialism'? You are so fucking brainwashed it's crazy. Noone wants to take anything from you. Modern socialism is about caring for people who have nothing at all. It's not Stalin trying to invade, calm your tits.

That in bold is the problem right there. For fifty years it was "Stalin trying to invade." Now we have boomers that are still stuck in a cold war mindset and a skewed definition of socialism holding us down.

[May90]

your right they are doing better because they have a social safety net and don't leave their poor to die on the street like the u.s. does.

Hmm, what I can find in the Internet says otherwise. For example:

http://www.france24.com/en/20150214-...ty-sdf-housing

"According to INSEE, France’s national institute for statistics, some 8.8 million people currently live in poverty, though other estimates put the figure at half the amount. Record unemployment levels and a shortage of homes have compounded the crisis. Last week, a report by the Fondation Abbé Pierre, a highly respected housing advocacy group, said 3.5 million people had “inadequate accommodation” (ranging from unsanitary homes to none at all). Among them, the number of homeless, known in France as “SDF”, has reached 142,000, up 50% from ten years ago. They include a growing number of families, youths, asylum seekers and people suffering from mental illnesses."

[Deleted]

Because life isn´t fair but we can change that, well to a degree.

Such a short answer for such a omplicated topic .. and yet it is right on the point.

Just because you study hard and work your ass off does not mean you will ever have success in life. One single event that you have absolutely no influence on can fk up all your future plans. Wouldn't it be great of a society to not just "put you away" after this but instead give you a little something to live on?

But to answer the question of this topic: I don't, the most successful system is usually a mixed one as any extreme has its major downsides as well.

[Caolela]

No tangent desired here but I am going to pull a Trump for fun by saying, you were serious first! In turn I took a serious approach on the necessity while not exactly fully addressing the ups and downs of the bailout, only that do something out weighed do nothing at that time. Neither of us want to get into a debate about Glass–Steagall and its real impact on the crash. It is ironic though that we are talking about forking over trillions to the super-wealthy in the same topic that folks are talking about wealth redistrobution, scattered indeed. Many people that are talking seriously in this thread do not even understand how much socialism is intertwined with capitalism in the United States. Do not mind me while I go back to just reading the humorous side of this topic and continue to get a good chuckle when I read quotes that call people flatscreen buying welfare queens! Ha!

I see what you did there. (;


Think I'm heading to Taft's place to check out his new welfare flatscreens. Said he'll be playing some old Reagan speeches for demos. D:

[Raamm]

Probably because, it worked for Europe for 50 years until they let the Muslims in now it's all screwed up.

[Deleted]

Hmm, what I can find in the Internet says otherwise. For example:

http://www.france24.com/en/20150214-...ty-sdf-housing

"According to INSEE, France’s national institute for statistics, some 8.8 million people currently live in poverty, though other estimates put the figure at half the amount. Record unemployment levels and a shortage of homes have compounded the crisis. Last week, a report by the Fondation Abbé Pierre, a highly respected housing advocacy group, said 3.5 million people had “inadequate accommodation” (ranging from unsanitary homes to none at all). Among them, the number of homeless, known in France as “SDF”, has reached 142,000, up 50% from ten years ago. They include a growing number of families, youths, asylum seekers and people suffering from mental illnesses."

Well @breadisfunny

where is your goat now

[Slant]

This is a genuine question, as it somewhat baffles me why people would allow themselves to believe in this concept.

Why do you believe in Socialism?

What is it about the idea of wealth redistribution that is so appealing to you?

I have always subscribed to the idea that if one works hard, educates themselves, become part of a business or cause, and or builds their own business that they should be rewarded for their efforts.

Is this line of thinking not popular or appealing anymore? The risk vs reward idea. The lazy vs proactive and hard working. What is it about Socialism that appeals to you so much?

Why do you not understand the simplest sociopoliticla terminology? Here's a hint: You're not using the word right.

[Jokerfiend]

Such a short answer for such a omplicated topic .. and yet it is right on the point.

Just because you study hard and work your ass off does not mean you will ever have success in life. One single event that you have absolutely no influence on can fk up all your future plans. Wouldn't it be great of a society to not just "put you away" after this but instead give you a little something to live on?

But to answer the question of this topic: I don't, the most successful system is usually a mixed one as any extreme has its major downsides as well.

Everything has flaws, as it is made by flawed beings. Someone will abuse the system regardless.

[Slant]

Probably because, it worked for Europe for 50 years until they let the Muslims in now it's all screwed up.

Is there no thread where xenophobia isn't running rampant these days?