1. #1661
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbydude65 View Post
    2.) I believe you're still able to switch talents before the match starts.
    I'm not invested in this argument whatsoever, but I'd be very surprised if this is the case come release.

  2. #1662
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    I'm not invested in this argument whatsoever, but I'd be very surprised if this is the case come release.
    Why would they not allow you to change PVP talents before a match? That sounds like awful design.

  3. #1663
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalopy View Post
    The fact you don't think casters will be viable (they never haven't been) basically just tells me you don't actually PVP and your opinion on the necessity of spell reflect is basically invalid.

    You can't make it so spell reflect isn't needed for warriors. It's not a defensive cooldown that they can balance something else around, we have no other button comparatively to it that we can use to avoid CC, except arguably bladestorm which isn't even a direct comparison.
    Of course casters will be viable, that's the whole point of this game. Please don't put words in my mouth. I said Wizard Cleave might not be a thing, I never stated casters would be unviable.

    What I'm not getting from your arguement is that it's a means to avoid CC. The whole point of making it an OPTIONAL choice as opposed to a tool a Warrior will always have, is to cut back on CC and counter CC. That's 90% of the reason we've seen such sweeping removal of crowd control abilities. That's why grounding totem isn't baseline for Shaman any more. That's why not all priests have Shadow Word Death. That's why Rogues don't have Smoke Bomb. That's why Druids don't have Cyclone. That's why Spell Reflect is a PVP talent.

    We're not the only ones losing something or having something we had made into a PVP talent. It's a sweeping change, and you can't look at the fact we don't have this ability baseline in a vacuum.
    Curoar, Arms Warrior of 15 years.

  4. #1664
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweeden View Post
    I'm Sorry Yassy, but you obviously haven't pvped a lot. Spell Reflect if used correctly wins/turns games the spell it pretty useless if you just use it randomly on CD you save if for the Cyclone or the potential hoj/deep or Chaos bolt perhaps. It's one of those few abilties that determine great Warriors from mediocre once. As it currently looks in the Pvp tier it's a lot more noob friendly having said that it will still basically function the same, use it at the very last ½ second of the clone cast.

    I just don't understand how you can not want abilties like these in the game that highers the skill cap of the class, your maybe fine with being a dull damage bot but i most certainly am not.
    What? Did you read my post? I said the problem isnt that X spell is a necessity, the bigger problem is that the class design feels regressive. I'm not saying the ability isnt useful.

    Also keep in mind were getting back Spell Reflect, not Mass. Mass Spell Reflect is substantially more useful than Spell Reflect in the current meta. Most of your examples point to Mass Spell Reflect anyway. You're not going to Spell Reflect a Deep/Hoj Poly/clone. You need Mass for that.
    Last edited by Yassy; 2016-03-31 at 11:39 PM.

  5. #1665
    They made Dauntless affect Execute, but now it is completely bizarre. Something is really wrong with it.

    Executing on 100 rage with dauntless should spend 32 rage, it is spending 28, the variable cost only drains 19 rage.

    Execute's variable rage cost still is not affected by Precise Strikes, only the initial rage cost, which drops from 8 to 6 with 1 point on it (-15% rage cost)

    I made a more complete post on the forums, Dauntless on Execute = Full Spaghetti.
    Last edited by Ferozan; 2016-04-01 at 12:44 AM.
    US-Azralon Rise Above
    Main: Ferozan

    FFXIV: Lannile Polebows

  6. #1666
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferozan View Post
    They made Dauntless affect Execute, but now it is completely bizarre. Something is really wrong with it.

    Executing on 100 rage with dauntless should spend 32 rage, it is spending 28, the variable cost only drains 19 rage.

    Execute's variable rage cost still is not affected by Precise Strikes, only the initial rage cost, which drops from 8 to 6 with 1 point on it (-15% rage cost)

    I made a more complete post on the forums, Dauntless on Execute = Full Spaghetti.
    Pretty sure it's due to the way it does reduction. At least when in my testing of prior builds, due to Executes conversion mechanic, it consumes excess rage and refunds the remainder (ie: Execute cost reduced from 10 -> 8; have 20 rage, Execute consumes all 20 rage, refunds 2 points).

    It's definitely quirky though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    cc:

    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    New/Updated Warrior Legendaries.

    http://legion.wowhead.com/items=4.4?filter=ub=1;qu=5
    http://legion.wowhead.com/items=4?fi...y=-3%3A-2%3A-4

    The Whirlwind belt in particular looks extremely powerful, both for AoE and synergy with Wrecking Ball.
    MS as a generator is now a bracer, which is a very good change to not interference with tier.

  7. #1667
    MS as a generator is now a bracer, which is a very good change to not interference with tier.
    The only thing it needs to do is disappear. It's entirely too powerful to exist in the game.

  8. #1668
    Quote Originally Posted by Caargon View Post
    The only thing it needs to do is disappear. It's entirely too powerful to exist in the game.
    Not really, the expectation is that the player will acquire all of the legendaries over time (how exactly they are going to accomplish this is TBD, but the point has been made). The only imbalance comes from the period of time in which some players have it and some don't. That's definitely problematic, but not an issue of the piece itself being too powerful; most of the legendaries create the same imbalance.

  9. #1669
    All indications are that they intend legendary effects be roughly as strong as a talent. The MS and execute effects are far stronger than that. I really have yet to see a legendary for another class even nearly as strong as these two.

  10. #1670
    Quote Originally Posted by Caargon View Post
    All indications are that they intend legendary effects be roughly as strong as a talent. The MS and execute effects are far stronger than that. I really have yet to see a legendary for another class even nearly as strong as these two.
    I have, but regardless, that's a balancing concern. Despite popular opinion, balancing is easy. If the expectation is to have the item, it really doesn't matter if the item is stronger or weaker than it's siblings, so long as the end result is balanced.

    That said, as before the major concern is how to handle the imbalance created between those that get lucky enough to get such an effect early, and those who don't. We haven't gotten much concrete information on this so far, so it isn't worth passing judgment just yet.

  11. #1671
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbydude65 View Post
    Of course casters will be viable, that's the whole point of this game. Please don't put words in my mouth. I said Wizard Cleave might not be a thing, I never stated casters would be unviable.

    What I'm not getting from your arguement is that it's a means to avoid CC. The whole point of making it an OPTIONAL choice as opposed to a tool a Warrior will always have, is to cut back on CC and counter CC. That's 90% of the reason we've seen such sweeping removal of crowd control abilities. That's why grounding totem isn't baseline for Shaman any more. That's why not all priests have Shadow Word Death. That's why Rogues don't have Smoke Bomb. That's why Druids don't have Cyclone. That's why Spell Reflect is a PVP talent.

    We're not the only ones losing something or having something we had made into a PVP talent. It's a sweeping change, and you can't look at the fact we don't have this ability baseline in a vacuum.
    Food for thought: with all the cc in the game currently, there's not as much significance to actually landing/defending. You may have reflected the cyclone, but that didn't stop the poly--and here comes the rogue for a stunlock.
    The fact that there's so much of this garbage in the game makes it just plain stupid, and I was alright with losing spell reflect if it meant this stupid cc chain garbage would get curbed as well.
    considering it a damage bot is fine with me since warrior isn't much more than that anyway. Give me more tools to do damage and I will be much more satisfied than struggling to deal with maximum cc comps.

  12. #1672
    Quote Originally Posted by Bleaklord View Post
    Food for thought: with all the cc in the game currently, there's not as much significance to actually landing/defending. You may have reflected the cyclone, but that didn't stop the poly--and here comes the rogue for a stunlock.
    The fact that there's so much of this garbage in the game makes it just plain stupid, and I was alright with losing spell reflect if it meant this stupid cc chain garbage would get curbed as well.
    considering it a damage bot is fine with me since warrior isn't much more than that anyway. Give me more tools to do damage and I will be much more satisfied than struggling to deal with maximum cc comps.
    They returned some of these abilities because the spec without those extras has a 10 minute learning curve and there's no way to get "better" past that. That's why at least a few situational abilities are important. Gameplay where it's easy to be awesome can be fun for a little while, not so much when you've got a hundred hours logged at cap and nowhere left to go.

  13. #1673
    Legion ARMS imo.

    - The damage is there, okay.

    - Defensives are meh, choosing between d stance and dbts is dumb, we are glass cannons in general (ye the class identity Kappa).
    Not like other classes are immortal, but defensives in general have been pruned so much that basically all you can do to survive is go def stance or heroic leap away and pray for heals.

    - Dont have that feeling of Warrior without charge stun. I feel like all this remove charge stun cuz Warriors are too disruptive was the worst idea that hit this class, like seriously blizz, that was the problem back in MoP where we had shit loads of cc that has been taken away patch by patch anyway.
    Still dont understand why u decided to keep Storm Bolt over our so damn iconic Charge Stun - Its obvious our disruption became too reliable when u added a mongo stun who overyone just macro's /focus healer anyway, on top of charge was just too much and thats true.

    - Storm Bolt, ability never fit this class, like it has 0 logic behind it, a pure melee physical class can throw a magic hammer to stun ur opponent from range - W T F?

    - Just replace it with throwdown give it that 1 sec longer duration to make up a little for the range loose (throwdown was melee) and you'll have free space of adding charge stun back.

    - No idea why things like Spell Reflect or Intervene (or whatever its called now) are talents.

    - Defensives - Kinda misses the idea of Warrior to be a glass cannon isnt it?

    - PvP in general is a total fail, like honestly when legion hits live you'll notice everyone above 2k will be playing on the same level. There are no decisions to make, no possibilities, nothing. You just smash ur rotation buttons untill you can press that dumb Storm bolt macro on healer, pop cds and pray somebody dies. - And that is my friends Legion PvP.

  14. #1674
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Pretty sure it's due to the way it does reduction. At least when in my testing of prior builds, due to Executes conversion mechanic, it consumes excess rage and refunds the remainder (ie: Execute cost reduced from 10 -> 8; have 20 rage, Execute consumes all 20 rage, refunds 2 points).

    It's definitely quirky though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    cc:



    MS as a generator is now a bracer, which is a very good change to not interference with tier.
    Not sure I'm happy about the whole legendary world drop formula... I quit playing Diablo because I got tired of it's randomness in loot drops and it just didn't appeal to me and now they're bringing it into wow....... I'm not feeling it....

  15. #1675
    Quote Originally Posted by AboikoS View Post
    - Storm Bolt, ability never fit this class, like it has 0 logic behind it, a pure melee physical class can throw a magic hammer to stun ur opponent from range - W T F?
    Stormbolt was an iconic ability from the Mountain Kings in Warcraft III; most notably Muradin Bronzebeard. They also had access to Avatar and Thunderclap. It makes total sense that we have access to this ability.
    Curoar, Arms Warrior of 15 years.

  16. #1676
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalopy View Post
    Why would they not allow you to change PVP talents before a match? That sounds like awful design.
    This is blizzard and PvP

    Its almost nothing but bad design decisions.

    For instance putting spell reflect on a tree to make the decision "difficult" isnt good design, its bad design since we need the skill period, its to needed of a skill to be a talent. And if anything its just making it a must pick.
    Last edited by Toppy; 2016-04-01 at 03:22 PM.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  17. #1677
    Is this confirmed you can't change talents on Alpha? Because you can 100% change talents in the prep zone right now on live. No reason at all why they should change that.

  18. #1678
    When Blizzard don't know what they will do with a spec, they introduce the promised lands of RNG.

  19. #1679
    About Storm Bolt, i agree 100% that throwdown should be the arms stun/knockdown. I liked storm bolt when it was a single target nuke on immune to stun targets though.
    US-Azralon Rise Above
    Main: Ferozan

    FFXIV: Lannile Polebows

  20. #1680
    Throwdown was worse than storm bolt and shockwave in every way except for being unable to trinket out. No.

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