California is first state to approve $15 minimum wage

[SinR]

Minimum Wage increase. Goody.

How can this POSSIBLY go wrong?

Step 1) instead of paying fresh out of high school kid whatever California's minimum wage is now, now they make 15 an hour (in 2022)

Step 2) Suddenly McD has to pay more for their labor. How do they make that money back?
A) Cut costs. Buy lower quality goods and sell them at the same prices
B) Cut hours. No more 40+ a week for anyone, no overtime.
C) Raise prices. Suddenly that 1.99 cheapy hamburger is 2.49. You get the idea
D) Cut JOBS. "Sorry Junior we have to let you go. Economy is going to shit after all, sorry Bro."
E) Cut locations. Nothing says I LOVE YOU like closing down an ENTIRE MCDONALD'S.
F) Any combination of the above.

Step 3) The cost of living goes up everywhere.
Step 4) Suddenly people crying "I CAN'T LIVE ON 15/HOUR ANYMORE WAH WAH WAH"
Step 5) Raise Minimum Wage again
Step 6) Go To Step 1


WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG???

[Deleted]

Step 2) Suddenly McD has to pay more for their labor. How do they make that money back?

Oh poor fucking mcdonalds.

[Captain N]

Dude, bro, minimum wage hikes have happened throughout the last CENTURY without catastrophic consequences. Your doomsday theories are baseless.

There was a dude in the last minimum wage thread who was adamant that prices would go through the roof -- He proceeded to link a site that showed the cost of most goods (groceries, cars, housing, etc.) We're all well aware that automobile and housing costs have skyrocketed over the last 40 years but the cost of basic goods has only gone up marginally. Housing and Auto Sales have zero impact from minimum wage anyways.

We know that in 1968 that the minimum wage was the best ever compared to today's dollars and by 1970 we had a minimum wage of $1.60. In 1960 we had a minimum wage of $1 -- The cost of most of those goods despite the 60% increase to the wage was mere pennies...the most expensive being meat costs which rose a whole 8 cents.

[Joresh]

And the rest of the western states rejoice as jobs flee California for their state.

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Oh poor fucking mcdonalds.

You do realize this means they will raise their prices. You can't be stupid enough to think McDonalds is going to willingly take a cut in their profits can you?

[TheTaurenOrc]

Minimum Wage increase. Goody.

How can this POSSIBLY go wrong?

Step 1) instead of paying fresh out of high school kid whatever California's minimum wage is now, now they make 15 an hour (in 2022)

Step 2) Suddenly McD has to pay more for their labor. How do they make that money back?
A) Cut costs. Buy lower quality goods and sell them at the same prices
B) Cut hours. No more 40+ a week for anyone, no overtime.
C) Raise prices. Suddenly that 1.99 cheapy hamburger is 2.49. You get the idea
D) Cut JOBS. "Sorry Junior we have to let you go. Economy is going to shit after all, sorry Bro."
E) Cut locations. Nothing says I LOVE YOU like closing down an ENTIRE MCDONALD'S.
F) Any combination of the above.

Step 3) The cost of living goes up everywhere.
Step 4) Suddenly people crying "I CAN'T LIVE ON 15/HOUR ANYMORE WAH WAH WAH"
Step 5) Raise Minimum Wage again
Step 6) Go To Step 1


WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG???

Meanwhile in the world of burger economics there is perfect balance and harmony between the restaurants and employees.

Look, if you think that Mc Donalds isn't already doing steps 2.A though 2.F now you are delusional. Increasing the minimum wage isn't going to change that, and regardless this is 2022 y'all might think I am joking but those jobs aren't going to exist then.

They're going to automate the shit out of everything with robots.

[Kotori125]

Step 2) Suddenly McD has to pay more for their labor. How do they make that money back?

It's not suddenly. Seriously. It's gradual. If they cannot handle small increases over the next 6 years, that is on them. It isn't suddenly occurring one day from $10 to $15 (in CA), and showering them with all these ordeals.

Besides, wouldn't demand increase, as individuals with more expendable income are purchasing these goods, where this additional demand can effectively makeup the additional business costs? Which in turn can increase supply, generating more jobs and further increasing demand...?

[Yvaelle]

"If you double salaries then costs of everything doubles!" is one of those "It sounds like it makes sense" sort of things that people hear and it just kinda sticks in their minds.

It's also why "Dubya" and his "plain talk" destroyed John Kerry in the debates.

Ya, the only commodity I can think of where the cost is 100% human labour, with no economy of scale, without materials, or rent, or administration, or marketing, or etc - where a doubling in salaries equals a doubling in the cost of goods sold - is blowjobs.

So if 100% of the human population earned the minimum wage, and the only job in the world was the exchange of blowjobs - then the fallacy would be true, for all other circumstances it is nonsense.

[DeadmanWalking]

Oh poor fucking mcdonalds.

And when they increase wages they raise the cost of everything to compensate. They are not going to lose profits over it.

Did you know that fast food restaurants including MCD's lobby government to steadily increase the minimum wage? They get the minimum wage increased and then increase the cost of a value meal to get 1 value meal=1 hour of work= See investors, more profit! The companies you want to pay more are actually working to get you paid more and have been for decades.

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Ya, the only commodity I can think of where the cost is 100% human labour, with no economy of scale, without materials, or rent, or administration, or marketing, or etc - where a doubling in salaries equals a doubling in the cost of goods sold - is blowjobs.

So if 100% of the human population earned the minimum wage, and the only job in the world was the exchange of blowjobs - then the fallacy would be true, for all other circumstances it is nonsense.

Oh, and Blowjobs will cost double too.

Actually no, People don't really look for prostitutes to give blowjobs like they use to because women are more willing to do that for their men than previously in history. Hell the reason why many men went to prostitutes was specifically because you could pay them to do the things their wives wouldn't. That's all changed, the worlds oldest profession has a harder time getting paying johns these days than it use to.

[alexw]

Ya, the only commodity I can think of where the cost is 100% human labour, with no economy of scale, without materials, or rent, or administration, or marketing, or etc - where a doubling in salaries equals a doubling in the cost of goods sold - is blowjobs.

So if 100% of the human population earned the minimum wage, and the only job in the world was the exchange of blowjobs - then the fallacy would be true, for all other circumstances it is nonsense.

One has to wonder what Yvaelle has planned for this Friday evening......

[DeadmanWalking]

It's not suddenly. Seriously. It's gradual. If they cannot handle small increases over the next 6 years, that is on them. It isn't suddenly occurring one day from $10 to $15 (in CA), and showering them with all these ordeals.

Besides, wouldn't demand increase, as individuals with more expendable income are purchasing these goods, where this additional demand can effectively makeup the additional business costs? Which in turn can increase supply, generating more jobs and further increasing demand...?

Actually in terms of Fast food Demand actually goes up when people have less money. Its cheap and its fast. Mcdonalds traditionally does better in a down economy than an up economy. When people have more money they tend to buy better meals (groceries) and complain that McD's food isn't healthy. When the economy is down complaints are far less because people can't afford to eat healthier.

[Jtbrig7390]

You think it's all so simple, like you understand the entirety of the economic system

I guess we can only be glad the people posting here today aren't the ones leading countries.

So you do ignore history then...

No wonder we have to keep repeating it.

[neocount]

At $15 an hour, and rounding the national full time average hours down to 2000 hours, annual salary would be $30,000.

Now, look at the chart below:

Basic Pay for Active Duty Soldiers
<2 Years Experience
Rank: Private (E1) $18,378.00
Rank: Private (E2) $20,602.80
Rank: Private First Class(E3) $21,664.80
Rank: Specialist or Corporal (E4) $23,994.00
Rank: Sergeant (E5) $26,172.00
Rank: Staff Sergeant (E6) $28,569.60
Source: goarmy.com

This means that burger flipping teenagers in California will be making more than our soldiers will.

[TheTaurenOrc]

At $15 an hour, and rounding the national full time average hours down to 2000 hours, annual salary would be $30,000.

Now, look at the chart below:

Basic Pay for Active Duty Soldiers
<2 Years Experience
Rank: Private (E1) $18,378.00
Rank: Private (E2) $20,602.80
Rank: Private First Class(E3) $21,664.80
Rank: Specialist or Corporal (E4) $23,994.00
Rank: Sergeant (E5) $26,172.00
Rank: Staff Sergeant (E6) $28,569.60
Source: goarmy.com

This means that burger flipping teenagers in California will be making more than our soldiers will.

Are Mc Donalds also giving its employees full room, board, clothing and medical care too? Stupid comparison.

[Captain N]

At $15 an hour, and rounding the national full time average hours down to 2000 hours, annual salary would be $30,000.

Now, look at the chart below:

Basic Pay for Active Duty Soldiers
<2 Years Experience
Rank: Private (E1) $18,378.00
Rank: Private (E2) $20,602.80
Rank: Private First Class(E3) $21,664.80
Rank: Specialist or Corporal (E4) $23,994.00
Rank: Sergeant (E5) $26,172.00
Rank: Staff Sergeant (E6) $28,569.60
Source: goarmy.com

This means that burger flipping teenagers in California will be making more than our soldiers will.

Do you know how a Federal Minimum Wage works? Perhaps you're going to allow all those burger flippers to have access to all the same benefits one achieves through the Armed Forces as well?

It's like people completely forget all the benefits one receives being in the military. I mean free college, free medical, three hots and a cot...and all I have to do is make it through the hard part of basic training? And then I can feign a back injury and collect disability from the government while complaining about all them other freeloaders....don't laugh...we have that guy here.

[neocount]

Which - again - is a problem with the pay in the army, then. Not a problem with the wages in California.

Oh, no, I agree the military needs higher pay. I'd love to see government spending on Military to go up to 5% of GDP from the current 3.5%

[DeadmanWalking]

I will also say this, Yes, Corporations make enough money to pay more (They won't and you will.) but it absoutely crushes mom and pop shops and start ups. Corporations may make billions but start ups and mom and pop shops barely make it by in the hopes to get picked up as a chain by a corporation. While small businesses do have an extra year or two to pay lower wages they will have to sooner than later match the minimum wage of bigger companies, and in the mean time why would I work for your mom and pop shop for $12 when McD's pays $15?

That being said you are pretty much assuring that only existing corporations can be successful and ensures that you could never start a business to one day become a billionaire corporation of your own.

People complaining about corporate greed sure do seem eager to make it so corporations don't face any competition.

[Kujako]

Oh, no, I agree the military needs higher pay. I'd love to see government spending on Military to go up to 5% of GDP from the current 3.5%

Or buy fewer tanks to put in the desert to rot.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Minimum wage hikes happen BECAUSE of the steady march of inflation. Minimum wage hikes do not cause inflation. As the value of money decreases, the minimum wage must increase to keep up with the cost of living. This has happened multiple times throughout the last century, and people talking doomsday scenarios of massive price hikes apparently don't history, since minimum wage hikes throughout the last century have not ever caused any kind of mass price hike, or even minimal price hike.

They go "OMG DID YOU EVER PAY ATTENTION TO SUPPLY AND DEMAND?!" and list all of the factors that would drive price up, while conveniently leaving out the factors that would lower the prices.

[TheTaurenOrc]

That being said you are pretty much assuring that only existing corporations can be successful and ensures that you could never start a business to one day become a billionaire corporation of your own.

People complaining about corporate greed sure do seem eager to make it so corporations don't face any competition.

Thats assuming the products and/or customer experience is the same as the corporation alternative. In which case the mom / pop or startup was doomed in the first place. It doesn't change anything.

[lordsphinx]

Besides, wouldn't demand increase, as individuals with more expendable income are purchasing these goods, where this additional demand can effectively makeup the additional business costs? Which in turn can increase supply, generating more jobs and further increasing demand...?

Listen, if someone is that hard off that they NEED the extra money, and they turn around and buy McDs instead of bulk chicken, pasta, rice, and beans, then they’re doing it all wrong and probably didn’t NEED the money in the first place.