California is first state to approve $15 minimum wage

[Milchshake]

At $15 an hour, and rounding the national full time average hours down to 2000 hours, annual salary would be $30,000.

Now, look at the chart below:

Basic Pay for Active Duty Soldiers
<2 Years Experience
Rank: Private (E1) $18,378.00
Rank: Private (E2) $20,602.80
Rank: Private First Class(E3) $21,664.80
Rank: Specialist or Corporal (E4) $23,994.00
Rank: Sergeant (E5) $26,172.00
Rank: Staff Sergeant (E6) $28,569.60
Source: goarmy.com

This means that burger flipping teenagers in California will be making more than our soldiers will.

Pfft its not that bad. Current pay doesnt seem to slow down the weekly parade of Camaro's coming off of JBLM every Friday.

[Shadgalaul]

The real minimum wage is $0/hour, and it always will be. Minimum wage (i.e. - minimum effort/skill/training) jobs, will continue to just disappear, as they have for years. When I was in high school, I bagged groceries for a living - anyone see kids bagging groceries anymore? Nope. Wanna know why? Because the cost of that labor overtook the value that it added to the operation it served. Minimum wage jobs are not MEANT to be able to support a family, those jobs are meant to be starting positions, not career options. Investment in automation will continue to grow, and these jobs will just shrink in availability.

Also - to all the folks that keep saying "Minimum Wage needs to keep pace with inflation!!!!! Let's raise wages!" You seriously have no idea how the f#*k inflation works. Which is the problem, I suppose, ignorance of basic economics is so widespread that it's just pointless at this point to even argue. I'm 41, so I don't give 2 sh!ts about the minimum wage anymore, I actually worked and went to school, so I have a career now. Let's see if these morons figure out that artificially dictating wages will only lead to longer unemployment lines. I just feel sorry for the folks that DID work hard, and made it to a position where they were EARNING $15/hour, and are now realizing the stoner at the 7-11 is making just as much as them.

*Atlas Just Started Shrugging*

[Kellhound]

You're right. The conservative states produce more GDP than the entitlement liberal job-killing regulation hell holes of California, New York, Oregon, New England, and Colorado. If only these backwater liberal entitlement wastelands would just be more like the innovative and hard working conservative states.

Oregon regulations (combined with federal regulations) actually did kill off most working class jobs outside the 3 main metro areas.

[DeadmanWalking]

Do you know how a Federal Minimum Wage works? Perhaps you're going to allow all those burger flippers to have access to all the same benefits one achieves through the Armed Forces as well?

It's like people completely forget all the benefits one receives being in the military. I mean free college, free medical, three hots and a cot...and all I have to do is make it through the hard part of basic training? And then I can feign a back injury and collect disability from the government while complaining about all them other freeloaders....don't laugh...we have that guy here.

Nobody only completes basic training. You have to serve for the amount of years you signed up for, typically 4 years. You can't just do basic service and walk away with all of your benefits, not to mention they can call you up at any time and recall you so long as you fit age and physical requirements.

It also isn't free college/medical/food and cot. You serve your country and risk losing your life every single day of your life. Even if you don't pay a dime you have paid for this 'free' service.

[Kellhound]

Or buy fewer tanks to put in the desert to rot.

They dont really rot very much in the desert, and it is in many ways cheaper to keep buying tanks in smaller numbers than to shut the only remaining tank factory in the US down for years and then try to bring it back on line and recreate the entire supply chain.

[Daelak]

Oregon regulations (combined with federal regulations) actually did kill off most working class jobs outside the 3 main metro areas.

If only Oregon emulated the economic success of Louisiana and Kansas will they truly learn that conservative economics is the true leader.

[petej0]

The real minimum wage is $0/hour, and it always will be. Minimum wage (i.e. - minimum effort/skill/training) jobs, will continue to just disappear, as they have for years. When I was in high school, I bagged groceries for a living - anyone see kids bagging groceries anymore? Nope. Wanna know why? Because the cost of that labor overtook the value that it added to the operation it served. Minimum wage jobs are not MEANT to be able to support a family, those jobs are meant to be starting positions, not career options. Investment in automation will continue to grow, and these jobs will just shrink in availability.

Exactly. Here is another thing to chew on. Minimum wages were created as a way to keep blacks, Japanese, Chinese (or any other undesirables) out of work. Unions used them as a way to keep blacks from coming up from the South and taking construction jobs in the North. Minimum wages negatively affect low skilled workers, always have and always will.

[Daelak]

Exactly. Here is another thing to chew on. Minimum wages were created as a way to keep blacks, Japanese, Chinese (or any other undesirables) out of work. Unions used them as a way to keep blacks from coming up from the South and taking construction jobs in the North. Minimum wages negatively affect low skilled workers, always have and always will.

Then it is a failure of the economic system. Basic minimum income will become reality to push our consumer economy forward.

[Total Crica]

to many laws would be needed in order to regulate how ppl spend a "living wage" - better to just allocate "living resources" like a place to live that has heat/air/clean water/bed/way to cook food/shower and a place to go pick up monthly food/clothing/toiletry supplies when you hire adults and give them a way to get to work (be it ride share/bike/bus pass, etc)

you know, some what like our own military does for its workers in USA...

[petej0]

Then it is a failure of the economic system. Basic minimum income will become reality to push our consumer economy forward.

No, it is a failure of our trade policy. It is a failure of our immigration policy. Families are stuck working minimum wage jobs because we have either shipped our jobs overseas, replaced them with H1B Visa workers or illegal immigrants.

So now we have families trying to live off minimum wage and have a class of low skilled workers who cant compete with them and thus are not able to gain employment and thus never able to gain any type of skill. Contributing to the viscous cycle of poverty.

[DeadmanWalking]

Then it is a failure of the economic system. Basic minimum income will become reality to push our consumer economy forward.

Its a consumer economy rather than a producer economy so it is by nature doomed to fail.

[PC2]

Basic minimum income will become reality to push our consumer economy forward.

Basic minimum income of how much?

[Daelak]

Basic minimum income of how much?

Whatever the income one person / family needs to live in the most expensive place in the US.

[DeadmanWalking]

to many laws would be needed in order to regulate how ppl spend a "living wage" - better to just allocate "living resources" like a place to live that has heat/air/clean water/bed/way to cook food/shower and a place to go pick up monthly food/clothing/toiletry supplies when you hire adults and give them a way to get to work (be it ride share/bike/bus pass, etc)

And you will only have to send a couple hundred thousand people to Siberia to die to make communism work. Oh I mean, "Disapear from the face of the earth."

[Total Crica]

And you will only have to send a couple hundred thousand people to Siberia to die to make communism work. Oh I mean, "Disapear from the face of the earth."

works just fine for USA military personnel, so i don't see why it wouldn't work for civilian personnel

[Captain N]

Nobody only completes basic training. You have to serve for the amount of years you signed up for, typically 4 years. You can't just do basic service and walk away with all of your benefits, not to mention they can call you up at any time and recall you so long as you fit age and physical requirements.

It also isn't free college/medical/food and cot. You serve your country and risk losing your life every single day of your life. Even if you don't pay a dime you have paid for this 'free' service.

Im well aware that it takes years of service to obtain your benefits -- The same could be said for people who work jobs that are also risky. Yes working as a 7-11 Cashier in the Bridgeport neighborhood of Chicago qualifies as places that could result in your death. That being said most of those military members don't see active service...or are miles away from any actual danger and receive the same benefits as those who are dodging bullets.

I seriously doubt the mess hall cook is going to lose his life or his limbs in combat yet he still receives all the same benefits as the combat soldier. You're going to have to try a bit harder if you think that all military is seeing battle.

[Daelak]

No, it is a failure of our trade policy. It is a failure of our immigration policy. Families are stuck working minimum wage jobs because we have either shipped our jobs overseas, replaced them with H1B Visa workers or illegal immigrants.

So now we have families trying to live off minimum wage and have a class of low skilled workers who cant compete with them and thus are not able to gain employment and thus never able to gain any type of skill. Contributing to the viscous cycle of poverty.

Then pay them enough to participate in the economy. The multiplicative effect of their spending and investment will exponentiate the amount the economy will get from them. Who cares if they are unemployed or unskilled, give them the means to participate and they will eventually get an education and start their progeny on a higher ladder than they started.

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Its a consumer economy rather than a producer economy so it is by nature doomed to fail.

No, we have had the most productive and prosperous years due to the nature of our economy. It doesn't matter where the money comes from, or who it comes from, as long as it is being spent and invested into our economy at a very fast rate.

[PC2]

Whatever the income one person / family needs to live in the most expensive place in the US.

Why should a person with no job get handed money for the most expensive place? It should only cover the cheapest place.

[Daelak]

Why should a person with no job get handed money for the most expensive place? It should only cover the cheapest place.

Because it helps the economy and their QOL, decreasing law enforcement, penal, and healthcare costs en masse.

[Total Crica]

Why should a person with no job get handed money for the most expensive place? It should only cover the cheapest place.

dont hand them money, hand them living resources