Tried healing a Mythic 5-man....

[Socialhealer]

Worst part is that a properly geared tank with dps trinkets etc will probably rival pretty much any DPS in output in a dungeon. Atleast both my monk and DK does, and paladins shouldn't have trouble.

yup my dk tank is usually bursting 500-800k dps on huge pulls in full survival gear, just an alt so missing the real good items, and with ring has 20 times the survival of any dps, i like to see 4 dps pull all that without getting gibbed.

[Orangetai420]

The tank's gear wasn't bad per se, If I recall it was a mixture of normal mode HFC & other stuff, around 697 or so, he pulled a lot at the start, but as soon as he saw me struggling he slowed down, that said I don't recall seeing many other tanks taking that much punishment.

Just because he was geared doesn't mean he knew what he was doing. If he wasn't using his active mitigation and CDs properly that could be the cause of your problem.

[Deleted]

Food for thought: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...y-priest-heals

[BiggestNoob]

yup my dk tank is usually bursting 500-800k dps on huge pulls in full survival gear, just an alt so missing the real good items, and with ring has 20 times the survival of any dps, i like to see 4 dps pull all that without getting gibbed.

Sounds like you're pulling way more than necessary or massively underestimating what DPS can do.

[Dracodraco]

Sounds like you're pulling way more than necessary or massively underestimating what DPS can do.

Define "pulling more than necessary". Killing mobs is neccessary in heroics, it's what you do. 500-800K is probably only a few specific pulls that'll let him do it (entire train in grimrail comes to mind), but generally, tanks have extremely strong AOE potential especially coupled with a 50% dmg cd in form of their ring. Sure, a destro warlock with aoe chaosbolt in similiar gear could probably outdo my DK, but generally, a tank can very much hold their own against pretty anything.

[Kudos]

I wouldn't be surprised at the speed people do Mythics these days. Mass pulls and very little breaks in between. I have 730 ilvl on my Monk and I still have to have careful use of mana tea and pop mana potions. Anectdotal, but I also finds Warriors require more spam healing than other tanking classes.

[BiggestNoob]

Define "pulling more than necessary". Killing mobs is neccessary in heroics, it's what you do. 500-800K is probably only a few specific pulls that'll let him do it (entire train in grimrail comes to mind), but generally, tanks have extremely strong AOE potential especially coupled with a 50% dmg cd in form of their ring. Sure, a destro warlock with aoe chaosbolt in similiar gear could probably outdo my DK, but generally, a tank can very much hold their own against pretty anything.

And if you want to do this efficiently, you'd pull all of that, AoE grip it, stun, then kill it inside the ring and blow up the next boss. You wouldn't want to just pull it and have your tank kill it slowly when you can have the group doing 2-3 million DPS then 1-shot the next boss. And if you do kill it slowly like that, pulling that much shit, you typically get things like CC and other shit that everyone has to avoid because they aren't a tank. In that example you have wreaths, flametongues, and rockets that basically fuck with everyone but hunters (who are then fucking with healers/casters). If you have a DK run in, grab things, grip it all, then kill it in CC, almost nobody takes damage and it dies about 5-10x faster than if you try to big boy it as a tank.

There's a reason you don't run 5 blood DKs for CMs.

[Dracodraco]

And if you want to do this efficiently, you'd pull all of that, AoE grip it, stun, then kill it inside the ring and blow up the next boss. You wouldn't want to just pull it and have your tank kill it slowly when you can have the group doing 2-3 million DPS then 1-shot the next boss. And if you do kill it slowly like that, pulling that much shit, you typically get things like CC and other shit that everyone has to avoid because they aren't a tank. In that example you have wreaths, flametongues, and rockets that basically fuck with everyone but hunters (who are then fucking with healers/casters). If you have a DK run in, grab things, grip it all, then kill it in CC, almost nobody takes damage and it dies about 5-10x faster than if you try to big boy it as a tank.

There's a reason you don't run 5 blood DKs for CMs.

There's no reason the DPS can't do damage while the tank is doing it aswell. Nobody said anything about killing it slowly.

[xact4]

And if you want to do this efficiently, you'd pull all of that, AoE grip it, stun, then kill it inside the ring and blow up the next boss. You wouldn't want to just pull it and have your tank kill it slowly when you can have the group doing 2-3 million DPS then 1-shot the next boss. And if you do kill it slowly like that, pulling that much shit, you typically get things like CC and other shit that everyone has to avoid because they aren't a tank. In that example you have wreaths, flametongues, and rockets that basically fuck with everyone but hunters (who are then fucking with healers/casters). If you have a DK run in, grab things, grip it all, then kill it in CC, almost nobody takes damage and it dies about 5-10x faster than if you try to big boy it as a tank.

There's a reason you don't run 5 blood DKs for CMs.

There's no reason the DPS can't do damage while the tank is doing it aswell. Nobody said anything about killing it slowly.

Are you two done having your special snowflake contest??

OT: You'd be surprised how many random warrior tanks don't use/forget they have 2 shield mitigates OP and it sounds like he probably completely glazed over or didn't utilize his absorb correctly. You were probably doing just fine, and tank was slacking.

[BiggestNoob]

There's no reason the DPS can't do damage while the tank is doing it aswell. Nobody said anything about killing it slowly.

If you do it right, the tank takes basically 0 damage. And in that scenario, a DPS is going to do more damage.

Soloing mythics is slower than actually doing them, and 5 DPS is faster than 4 DPS + tank/heal no matter what you might think. Unless you actually use a tank to drag mobs through the instance without killing them so you can abuse the ring, you're not really gaining much by having them there.

Are you two done having your special snowflake contest??

Someone is sad they're just an ice cube.

OT: You'd be surprised how many random warrior tanks don't use/forget they have 2 shield mitigates OP and it sounds like he probably completely glazed over or didn't utilize his absorb correctly. You were probably doing just fine, and tank was slacking.

Most warrior tanks are terrible. I've seen 720 warrior tanks who required a mythic geared healer to keep them alive in heroic dungeons (and they weren't even doing DPS). I've seen a 650 warrior tank chain pull everything and take basically 0 damage while doing competent damage.

As is always the case: the player is the most important thing, and the average person is absolutely awful at the game.

[Raugnaut]

What are you talking about. Chipped soul prism isn't that bad...

He says that he can't heal them, and he goes oom. Chipped Soul Prism has half the int for its ilvl, no spirit, and while it DOES have a good amount of secondaries, those secondaries are split between all 5 stats, which gives significantly less throughput then a heaping of one stat.

Just the lack of Int alone makes it less useful, given that Int generally has twice the value of other stats.

[Socialhealer]

Soloing mythics is slower than actually doing them, and 5 DPS is faster than 4 DPS + tank/heal no matter what you might think. Unless you actually use a tank to drag mobs through the instance without killing them so you can abuse the ring, you're not really gaining much by having them there.

lol now it's no tank no healer just 5 dps, this guy is someone to take note of clearly the expert...

[Alvito]

Docks is one of the easier ones. Only 1 high damage pull on trash unless ppl screw something up, the first one after the iron stars if you get the gron and both packs. None of the bosses do high damage unless people just camp out in fire or things like that. As far as healing goes most things can and should be avoided by the group so healing can be very easy, trash is often worse then bosses in most dungeons due to people having to deal with things they always ignored before.

[Deja Thoris]

Bad groups can be a nightmare. I just healed grimrail and the dps were pant on head retarded.

I was just chilling doing my thing then I noticed at the first boss the big dude died while the little dude was above 90% health. One dps was locked out and died and then we took 4 million damage across 4 people from his aoe before they killed him. Thats not something thats healable at the intended item level.

Then we move onto the trail and melee's affinity to eat shrapnel blasts. LOTS of shrapnel blasts. I can understand why someone can struggle a lot in mythics at the gear that is intended. And just to echo what Draco said, Iron Docks, its kinda easy for the tanks to pull big and say "lol y u die!?" Theres a lot of aoe damage from the mobs that apply dots and crap fire all over.

[Xar226]

1) At my gear is it always that hard/stressful?

I had a similar issue with healing at your ilvl. There's not much more frustrating than spamming your fastest, hardest-hitting heals on your tank and struggling just to keep his health constant. Obviously the better (geared) the rest of the group the easier it is for you, but it's not meant to be a walk in the park at that ilvl.

2) Can any Holy Priests give me any constructive hints & tips? or any healers in general?

For your gear level, honestly some of the other posts have basically covered it. But I'll go through some of them just for completeness:

- Serenity chakra
- Keep up as many renews as you can manage based on incoming damage. (They'll start to drop off others if you have to spam heal the tank.)
- Keep Holy Word: Serenity on cooldown, almost always on your tank. That 6s window of roflcrits is a big deal to help you start to make up ground after you've been spam-Flash'ing just to tread water.
- Don't forget to toss down a Lightwell, as it is free healing if anybody dips below 50% health. Obviously you want to do this on bosses if you can, but if things are slipping downhill don't hesitate to use it on trash.
- CoH on CD anytime there are 3+ people to heal.
- Glyph Binding Heal if you can. It is better healing than Flash Heal any time it will not overheal the targets. It does make it way more expensive though, so you have to figure out if your mana can support it.
- Try to avoid casting a PoH with no buffs up. Use 2x Flash or 2x Binding Heal for 40% reduction to cast time and mana cost.
- Try to keep a PoM out and bouncing. Obviously if the damage is overwhelming you might not be able to do so, but it should be the goal.
- Always try to spend your Serendipity stacks when you hit two. Flash-Flash-Heal works great even if you're in the middle of an ohshitspamspamspam window, and of course Binding-Binding-Heal/PoH is a great combination as well depending on the damage.

Once you get a little more gear and especially that Demonic Phylactery, check out the holy priest guide over at howtopriest.com. Or heck, check it out now as well, just understand that some of the strategies and tips don't work unless you're comfortable enough with your mana to drive them.

Holy priests have a lot of buttons and they take some preparation and gear, but they're super fun healers once you get there. I don't enjoy anything on any healing toon as much as I enjoy Surge-DStar (and to a lesser extent, Surge-Halo).

Maybe I'm not as good as a Holy Priest or I need to go Disc.

The thing about holy priests are they burn through mana like it's a personal challenge. They're a bit of a struggle until you get a Phylactery, at which point you can switch to a more mana-aggressive playstyle and start doing really well.

It was actually ridiculous how much easier it was [...] I hardly had mana issues. the Dungeon was BSM.

Pallies definitely don't have mana issues the way a holy priest does. They really only risk OOM'ing themselves when they spam AE heals, and when you can heal three people with a single-target heal that's probably not often in a Mythic. That said, BSM is also the easiest Mythic and Grimrail is one of the harder ones, so it's a hard to compare apples-to-apples.

If you want to go Disc for a little while until you get a little better gear, go ahead, but don't give up on holy! Despite the ridiculous echo chamber, holy is completely viable at any level of content and it's so much more fun than Disc it's hard to describe.

[PrairieChicken]

Considering the fact that you are using timewalking crap instead of wild gladiator gear it highly implies L2P issue.

[Overdispersion]

He says that he can't heal them, and he goes oom. Chipped Soul Prism has half the int for its ilvl, no spirit, and while it DOES have a good amount of secondaries, those secondaries are split between all 5 stats, which gives significantly less throughput then a heaping of one stat.

Just the lack of Int alone makes it less useful, given that Int generally has twice the value of other stats.

Well you're wrong. "Split between 5 stats", yes that's only true if it be a purely multistrike/haste since they outweight the other stats. Just because the secondaries are split it doesn't mean it gives you less throughput. :/ And your stat weighs are completely off aswell. They range from 0.60 to 0.85 of int value at that ilvl. You're not gonna get a trinket with pure intellect with that stat budget. It's better than heroic DSI/IPR and better than any dps trinket you can get from mythic dungeons and brf mythics. Considering he has done neither of them I'm going to say that CSP is the least of his issues.

[Deleted]

I can't comment on the healing, I just wanted to say that as a 730 tank @Iron docks I tend to pull all trash before the first boss at once. That said I wouldn't do that with a sub-700 healer, because dps will die A LOT.

So healing/spec/gear issues aside, it might have been that people in general outgear mythics and thus pull much more than they would do at 670-700.

[Granyala]

As I stated in the other thread: At these levels you need people that actually avoid avoidable damage. You may need CC for trash depending on the groups DPS.

Healers are crap and pathetically weak in WoW. You cannot compensate for many fails by design. I don't find it fun either but apparently Blizzard thinks it's cool to chain our hands behind our backs. It'll get worse in Legion.

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I wonder has anyone actually tried doing mythics at their intended ilvl (which I think is around 670-680)? I'd guess you'd have to CC and play carefully at that point . . .

According to the party finder, 660 is the recommended minimum item level.
Yes you'd need to play VERY carefully. Use as many CCs as you have and be really good ad avoiding unnecessary damage on bosses.

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If you want to go Disc for a little while until you get a little better gear, go ahead, but don't give up on holy! Despite the ridiculous echo chamber, holy is completely viable at any level of content and it's so much more fun than Disc it's hard to describe.

Agreed.
I tried a few rounds of Disc in PG Gold a few days ago and to be honest: I just don't get the spec.
The whole concept of preemptive shielding because sth is about to happen is too alien to me. As well as the "do DPS to heal/regen mana" thing.

I prefer reactive healing.

Stuff happens -> push button -> wee, asses saved!

[Rybackk023]

Just keep practicing