Celestalon: "streaming interferes with the feedback process"

[PrairieChicken]

Then don't give betas to streamers? End of story

[Taeldorian]

I'm not really sure about this streamer thing. Finalboss and Bellular (no idea if bellular streams) both provide excellent feedback using detailed analysis (mainly speaking for finalboss since I watch him more) and by thoroughly comparing talents. I definitely wouldn't lump streamers together in this at all. Some provide good feedback, others just don't.

For example, as much as I love Cdew, I think there needs to be more than " I want X back because I miss it". That's all I've seen so far and I don't think that's really helpful in this situation compared to a detailed analysis as to why the ability is important to bring back. That's what I think would get noticed more by Blizzard than just "I want X ability back because I miss it and it was cool". Needs to be more than that in my opinion.

[Mafic]

LMAO there are people defending Blizzard and pruning?

If the major streamers are peeved with pruning imaging little Joe or Mary sue that comes back to the game to find that they have less abilities than Vanilla (not hyperbole).

[Radaney]

He's not wrong, but it's Blizzards fault anyway.

And they won't learn, it'll happen with the next expansion.

[Bullettime]

LMAO there are people defending Blizzard and pruning?

If the major streamers are peeved with pruning imaging little Joe or Mary sue that comes back to the game to find that they have less abilities than Vanilla (not hyperbole).

Except not all streamers even actively play the game nor are intelligent about the design of the game. They also spew hyperbole on stream because it's far more entertaining. A lot of the WoW streaming right now is basically personalities from other games using their keys then rambling on about something being op or shit, while exaggerating it for entertainment value.

Then the ones that do actually play often use their stream fandom to soap box for changes THEY want and thus influences their fans to post and tweet for the same or "this streamer said X so Y should happen."

Technically this has always been a problem, but the mess with Cdew may have just finally been the tipping point for Blizzard and how they handle their testing keys.

[Deleted]

Except not all streamers even actively play the game nor are intelligent about the design of the game. They also spew hyperbole on stream because it's far more entertaining. A lot of the WoW streaming right now is basically personalities from other games using their keys then rambling on about something being op or shit, while exaggerating it for entertainment value.

Then the ones that do actually play often use their stream fandom to soap box for changes THEY want and thus influences their fans to post and tweet for the same or "this streamer said X so Y should happen."

Technically this has always been a problem, but the mess with Cdew may have just finally been the tipping point for Blizzard and how they handle their testing keys.

It is good feedback. Believe it or not but blizz shouldn't give keys to people who only blow smoke up their asses.

[lunchbox2042]

As much as I hate agreeing with him, he has a point. Streaming shouldn't be allowed on alpha. Streamers are trying to make money. Then you have idiots who watch the stream, think they know alpha just because they watched someones stream, so they report false issues or issues incorrectly.

Blizzard prioritized giving streamers alpha keys though. It's their own fault.

[Bullettime]

It is good feedback. Believe it or not but blizz shouldn't give keys to people who only blow smoke up their asses.

Oh I'm not saying there isn't good feedback. I'm just saying that the good feedback sometimes has to be dug for in a Twitter inbox of hyperbole and garbage.

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Blizzard prioritized giving streamers alpha keys though. It's their own fault.

They've always done that and it's not like they're saying they're booting streamers out. This has always been a problem, Celestalon is just commenting on it due to a few recent Twitter shit shows and the whole thing with Cdew's fans.

[hulkgor]

The big streamer invite waves should be done by Blizzard, but after most development is complete, near the release date, as a hype tool, to generate interest in the game for the actual release, days\weeks away.

It should not be done on alphas or early development where feedback is actually relevant.

Blizzard has been making a lot of awkward decisions lately.

[Mafic]

Except not all streamers even actively play the game nor are intelligent about the design of the game. They also spew hyperbole on stream because it's far more entertaining. A lot of the WoW streaming right now is basically personalities from other games using their keys then rambling on about something being op or shit, while exaggerating it for entertainment value.

Then the ones that do actually play often use their stream fandom to soap box for changes THEY want and thus influences their fans to post and tweet for the same or "this streamer said X so Y should happen."

Technically this has always been a problem, but the mess with Cdew may have just finally been the tipping point for Blizzard and how they handle their testing keys.

Prove it. Have a link?

All the major streamers I have seen have said this is not healthy (pruning) for the game moving forward. Their agenda is clear...they will not make much future money from WoW if the pruning continues as it is.

The major streamers and Blizzard both have a vested interest in seeing Legion succeed.

[Deleted]

Oh I'm not saying there isn't good feedback. I'm just saying that the good feedback sometimes has to be dug for in a Twitter inbox of hyperbole and garbage.

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They've always done that and it's not like they're saying they're booting streamers out. This has always been a problem, Celestalon is just commenting on it due to a few recent Twitter shit shows.

They need those shit shows though. I'm tired of feedback being ignored and just brushed of as its to late into beta. Blizzard needs a fire lite under their ass and if assgate taught us anything is this new blizz are cowards and crumble when their back is to a wall.

[Mafic]

Cdew has explained it in great detail and to be honest? Why should he have to explain it in great detail why utility is important in PVP? Ten plus years of game play isn't enough info for the WoW Devs LMAO?

They can stall and delay all they want...the chickens are coming home to roost. They started this mess with WoD and are doubling down on the stupid with Legion.

[Murderdoll]

If you dont want uninformed people spreading uninformed opinions. Dont give Alpha and Beta keys to people who SHOULD NOT BE FUCKING TESTING THESE THINGS!

There are a group of streamers that should actually have alpha access. These are the class guide and actually high progression players. Then there are streamers who do casual content for mass viewers.

These people have access for publicity. If you dont want them spreading their uninformed views. Dont give them access.

On the other hand. There are plenty of people who arent streamers who say a lot of this stuff is rubbish.

At what point do you say ok, well maybe it is actually garbage?

[Slirith]

He's not wrong, but it's Blizzards fault anyway.

And they won't learn, it'll happen with the next expansion.

Couldn't have said it better

[Eggroll]

I think Celestralon's claims are ridiculious. I only very occasionally watch twitch, not Cdew though, but from what I remember he is at about 2500 viewers. That's really ridiculous compared to the really successful games.

Many of the forum goers probably don't even know who the hell he is and don't watch twitch.

It's more like what I felt has been the case for a while now: the playerbase seem to be nothing more than an inconvenience to the devs.

[Maconi]

It's more like what I felt has been the case for a while now: the playerbase seem to be nothing more than an inconvenience to the devs.

That's actually not too far off. They're making the game they want to play, while getting paid to do it. If you happen to like it as well then good for you, otherwise you're an inconvenience to them (because you're probably vocal about it and causing them to lose money).

A lot of devs are like that sadly (I mean it's their right, but its a shame the game is developed backwards).

[Pizzadawg]

If Celestalon is talking about the #stoptheprune rally that started with a couple of streamers I kind of agree on a point but then again it seems a lot more of like a preview of the backlash of the pvp community in legion but then again they're getting soo many complaints and people wanting abilities back that it feels like they're almost being forced into throwing more abilities back in.Although I don't think it even has to do with prioritizing streamers and youtubers with alpha keys, one way or another these streamers are gonna get their hands on at least some gameplay videos of legion content and can see how it's turning out, they don't need a key to rally their fans.

[Taeldorian]

I'm not really sure about that. The whole #stoptheprune shit is ridiculous. Some people have really good points and give really good feedback, and others are just following the pack.

For example, I like Cdew, but some of his reasons to bring back abilities (as well as Sodapoppin) are really bad. Reasons like "bring it back because it was cool and I like it" is not a good reason. If you believe an ability should be brought back, then include an analysis including why it should be brought back, how it would benefit the game, and how it would benefit the class. I don't mean to drop names, but some reasons I've seen from these streamers are just really bad like "bring it back because it's cool". That just doesn't work and it's not a valuable reason as to why that ability is even useful in game.

[BiggestNoob]

Honestly streamers shouldn't be on that list, and I'd prefer a non-stream clause in the ToS. Give it to people who are actually going to test the content -- raiders, PvPers, and random casual players. Let them stream the game when it actually comes out.

I dunno if you got alpha and other didnt wouldn't you start streaming to make money on the side?

Streaming isn't lucrative unless you're a girl begging thirsty dudes for money or have thousands of viewers consistently. Just starting up a stream on alpha isn't going to make you money.

[merex760]

Those comments are pretty telling. Maybe certain people in Blizzard are regretting the whole beta as a marketing tool/streamer special treatment thing. They made their bed though...