Anita Sarkeesian's latest video, the male gaze in video games

[The One Percent]

200k well spent.

[Elim Garak]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ry-doesnt-know

There you go....

That statistic is similar to the wage gap one.

It suffers from generalization problem.

What games women play? Clearly not every game has a 52% female audience. Most AAA games have predominantly male audience, that's why in the games industry most employees are male. Females mostly play on Facebook or mobiles and in casual/social category.

Gaming is predominantly male. It's not a myth. It looks like one only if you expand "gaming" to doing something unproductive on an electronic device. As vaguely as possible and even then it's 52% female, that is half, just like with the total male/female ratio on Earth.

[Astronom]

Damn, I actually watched a bit of that video. Okay she has a little bit of a good argument about blatant fan service (although I don't agree with her). However then she starts going on about how sexist and objectifying it is when female characters have different walking and sitting animations than male characters, and different speech mannerisms. I can't imagine what kind of world she is trying to create. But if she wants to absolutely minimize the differences between the genders, why does she wear so much makeup?

[KrazyK923]

Damn, I actually watched a bit of that video. Okay she has a little bit of a good argument about blatant fan service (although I don't agree with her). However then she starts going on about how sexist and objectifying it is when female characters have different walking and sitting animations than male characters, and different speech mannerisms. I can't imagine what kind of world she is trying to create. But if she wants to absolutely minimize the differences between the genders, why does she wear so much makeup?

Anita's problem has ALWAYS been about the source of her criticism: The unfounded idea that sexualization of a character, female or male, leads to the objectification of people in real life.

And there's simply no source to support this argument. Just as when you can't build a house on a shitty foundation, you can't make an argument with an assumption not based in face.

The sad thing is that I wish we could have a debate with her, because maybe she actually has some good ideas not steeped in faulty science. But we'll never know since she absolutely refuses to ever have a debate with somebody who disagrees with here, and equates all criticism with harassment.

[deadman1]

Damn, I actually watched a bit of that video. Okay she has a little bit of a good argument about blatant fan service (although I don't agree with her). However then she starts going on about how sexist and objectifying it is when female characters have different walking and sitting animations than male characters, and different speech mannerisms. I can't imagine what kind of world she is trying to create. But if she wants to absolutely minimize the differences between the genders, why does she wear so much makeup?

How did you notice her makeup? Obvious evidence of the male gaze.

[Deleted]

I'm with you mate. But that doesn't mean we should argue in favor of censorship, and thats what Anita wants. I like some variation and stories and thats what my WALLET gives me instead of acting crazy like Anita and demanding what I want or else developers are sexist.

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Yes, you started it.

Since were not dictating how woman activities should change to accomodate mans interest more I'm against Anita's complaints as well. Not sure how my post could be interpreted as if i'm supporting her.

[SodiumChloride]

Thankfully people are wise to her flavour of bullshit now, her new crowd funding campaign is only getting legs because rich friends are propping it up. Sick of the politicisation of gaming. There was no basis when the right puritans attacked it to push their agenda and there's still no basis with the left puritans attacking it to push their agenda. They're games ffs, if you think the fallacy of relative privation has any merit when comparing pixels to the suffering of people in the real world, you're as out of touch as the religious loonies were.

Screaming about SJW on the internet only embolden them - giving them free publicity.

You want to make a real difference? Boycott companies that help push the agenda like Blizzard. Don't buy their shit. Don't talk about their shit to your friends.

At the end of the day, money is the ultimate arbitrator.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Since were not dictating how woman activities should change to accomodate mans interest more I'm against Anita's complaints as well. Not sure how my post could be interpreted as if i'm supporting her.

I didn't think you were! I was agreeing with you and explaining my thoughts on what you said, thats all.

[deadman1]

I find it amusing that, in a forum with a mod-approved, mod-supported, mod-apologist GG thread, that gaters still find the time to go ruin other threads. Actually "amusing" is the wrong word. Let's go with "disgusting" instead. Mods: infract away, and know my contempt for you is limitless. (And I don't really give a shit if you feel the same way.)

Stop pretending that rational humans are somehow bad because they don't agree with you. Not everyone that thinks Anita is a con artist and a liar follow GG.

As for the male gaze in games, it's definitely a problem. I'm all for sexy female characters who, because of their character and their agency, enjoy dressing and acting provocatively, freely, proud of themselves (see: Laura in SFV, Valentine in Skullgirls, etc.). The problem is when devs and storytellers -- a mostly male group -- either make every female character that person for the sake of pandering to a perceived core audience of perverts (even if actual demographics show that pandering to said mostly male crowd is actually *bad* for business), or indulge in male gaze-y stuff on characters who shouldn't be that, per their very character (see: Cammy in SF, Tracer in Overwatch).

Pixels aren't people.

I think it's totally okay to like and want sexy characters, any gender, in games, even if for nothing else than eye candy. I think it's totally NOT okay for all characters to be that, or even most characters to be that. Representation and inclusion demands a greater variety, and in media, games and otherwise, that variety still has a loooooong way to go.

Make your own games if you want to be represented.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I find it amusing that, in a forum with a mod-approved, mod-supported, mod-apologist GG thread, that gaters still find the time to go ruin other threads. Actually "amusing" is the wrong word. Let's go with "disgusting" instead. Mods: infract away, and know my contempt for you is limitless. (And I don't really give a shit if you feel the same way.)

As for the male gaze in games, it's definitely a problem. I'm all for sexy female characters who, because of their character and their agency, enjoy dressing and acting provocatively, freely, proud of themselves (see: Laura in SFV, Valentine in Skullgirls, etc.). The problem is when devs and storytellers -- a mostly male group -- either make every female character that person for the sake of pandering to a perceived core audience of perverts (even if actual demographics show that pandering to said mostly male crowd is actually *bad* for business), or indulge in male gaze-y stuff on characters who shouldn't be that, per their very character (see: Cammy in SF, Tracer in Overwatch).

I think it's totally okay to like and want sexy characters, any gender, in games, even if for nothing else than eye candy. I think it's totally NOT okay for all characters to be that, or even most characters to be that. Representation and inclusion demands a greater variety, and in media, games and otherwise, that variety still has a loooooong way to go.

Well, sorry, its not an issue.

And Tracer? Really? Nothing sexual or male gazey about that.

And all characters aren't like that. Representation and inclusion can't demand a single thing.

[Deleted]

You're an idiot.

That's not a particularly good argument, nor a constructive comment either. You can do better.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

You're an idiot.

How? If you don't like current games, make your own. Its a pretty simple concept.

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0% of this post is clever, cool, intelligent, insightful, accurate, or meaningful in any way.

Impressive for a mere three lines of MRA drivel. Usually it's a lot more windbag-y.

I have no association with MRA. Its 100% accurate though. Good try derailing.

[deadman1]

You're an idiot.

Thank you for the insult, it just shows how seriously you should be taken.

Straight white men making games shouldn't have to represent your needs just for the sake of representing you. They market to their audience and marketing to key demos has always been very important in games.

Again, make your own games if you want to be represented.

[Deleted]

I don't argue with idiots. I call them idiots, and then I move on. I save argument and debate for people who are worth the oxygen they're displacing.

If you want to remain around on the forum long enough to argue with people you deem worthy, I'd refrain from doing so.

[Deletedaccount1]

I didn't make it through the video. The thing about how different genders sit in Destiny was enough for me.

[Elim Garak]

Anita's problem has ALWAYS been about the source of her criticism: The unfounded idea that sexualization of a character, female or male, leads to the objectification of people in real life.

Not to mention that although objectification of a person is bad, sexual objectification is FINE. How else would people get horny? Humans will die as a species if we get rid of sexual objectification. We will be able to reproduce only in a lab - parents need not apply, create egg and sperm fertilize the egg with the sperm and put it into an incubator for 9 month.

Maybe that's what feminists want but just don't realize what that means: the total birth control by government. Need more soldiers/workers? Create them! And since it's the government that gives them birth - newborns are kinda legally bound to the government and they can genetically enhance and correct babies' faulty genes as they please. The Aryan race.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I didn't make it through the video. The thing about how different genders sit in Destiny was enough for me.

I laughed at that part too. I mean, don't men and women generally sit differently?

[deadman1]

I laughed at that part too. I mean, don't men and women generally sit differently?

Are you trying to tell me that men and women are anatomically different?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Are you trying to tell me that men and women are anatomically different?

I'm no scientist, but I did read something like that in biology class.

[Elim Garak]

I didn't make it through the video. The thing about how different genders sit in Destiny was enough for me.

Wait, you can sit in Destiny? Why not just quit the game if there's so nothing to do that you have to sit?

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I'm no scientist, but I did read something like that in biology class.

Patriarchal propaganda.