No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Eapoe]

Wow, over 200 pages. People are still going on about this? Idiotic.

No matter what your useless opinion on flying is, who the heck cares any more. It is how it is, just deal with it, for Pete's sake.

To be fair, a lot of these pages have been less about flying itself as opposed to people using it as a way to show Blizzard as a money grabbing whore of a company who lock players into content and milk them for money.

[Maneo]

When did this ever happen? Where did people get their 2 weeks number at? They literally announced no flight before or during beta testing, pretty sure when it was being discussed as just an expansion itself, and flight wasn't even discussed as coming until around the time BRF was out. Then it was pushed back because they didn't have all the bugs and issues worked out to enable it.

You really are out of the loop aren't you?

They didn't announce no flight during or before beta testing.
1. After some epic quest
2. First content patch
3. Wait and see
4. Only if the majority of people want it
5. No flight in WoD or any future content
6. Two weeks later or shit you guys were serious. We are bringing flight back you like us again?

They jerked the player base around in regards to flight for the entire expac. No matter your stance on flight, we should all agree that how they handled this was very very bad.

[SirCowdog]

As stated, it's personal opinion. Isn't the reverse is also true, everyone's post is "I have a problem therefore it is a problem?"
This isn't a forum talking about global warming and being able to show the statistics and pie charts and graphs about how it is indeed a problem and the repercussions of it, and then stating your opinions of why you feel it's necessary to stop driving a gas guzzling 4x4 monster truck.
It's a forum about flight where the only thing you can take seriously IS personal opinions. Sure, people try to talk about shady business dealings and quoting that 5 million people quit during WoD and then try to spout how it's all the "no flight" thing is the sole reason for all of it.

Taking flight out of context is the source of misunderstanding and ignorance.

The larger problem IS relevant. It has become commonplace for game companies to ship unfinished products and outright lie about what their product is in order to make a sale or get a pre-order. Take a look at the phenomenon of Kickstarter projects that fail and the money disappears. Then look at "Early Access" sales of unfinished games, some of which NEVER actually get completed.

On top of that we have larger game companies falling into the practice of Day-1 DLC sales of software that's already in the game files, but locked behind a pay wall. There are many cases of games being shown off at major conventions(such as E3) via videos showing "in-game footage" which are later shown to be false. Aliens: Colonial Marines is a HUGE example of that sort of thing, but by no means the only one.

Over and over and over we see a trend of games being shipped in bug-ridden, exploit filled, unfinished states. Some of the more responsible game studios patch quickly, and otherwise ship with a completed product(The Witcher 3, for example). WoW falls somewhere in the middle of all this. Blizzard constantly shows off and talks about the things which are going to be in the game, then falls back on the "Changing conditions in development" excuse whenever it suits them.

The behavior and conduct of Blizzard over the past couple years has been getting worse and worse. The RMAH in Diablo. The ridiculously overpriced business model for heroes and skins in HotS. The shenanigans surrounding flight and the overall quality of WoD, as well as the insane content droughts. The use of a flying mount as a bonus for the collector's edition in an expansion which didn't have flight at the time, as well as the continued sale of flying mounts during a time when the expansion had no flight.

You can call it conspiracy theory if you want, but this is not the behavior of a company that's interested in making high-quality games. It's the behavior of a company trying to maximize profits even at the expense of customer good will, loyalty, and their reputation. "When it's ready" has been replaced by "Pre-Order NOW! Maybe we'll deliver what we hyped"

Frankly, I think it's shameful that so many people are so willing to jump to the defense of getting less while paying more. Specifically: Did removing flight actually gain WoW anything? Was there an extra raid tier? Was there a 'savage' open world that Blizzard promised? More dungeons? A new class or race? Was there ANYTHING of note that was gained by removing flight(other than some EXTREMELY subjective opinions on 'immersion'). Can you look at the objective facts of what features were provided with WoD(NOT your personal opinion of 'fun') and still say with a straight face that removing flight improved the game?

I seriously doubt it. As every objective point against removing flight has been well-rebutted and refuted over the course of this thread. The ONLY arguments are those which are highly subjective, and have no possibility of rebuttal: Blizzard's questionable 'vision' for the game, and people's personal concept of 'fun'.

- - - Updated - - -

What new information do you need? It won't be available at launch, it will come in a later patch. Any other details would be subject to change and Blizzard have decided not to share information that might lead to complaints of broken promises.

Oh, I don't know. How about something along the same lines as all the garbage hype they're spewing constantly about every OTHER aspect of the expansion? Something, ANYTHING to show us that they're actually working on it and not just bullshitting. Or maybe, just maybe, they could rebuild some player confidence and loyalty by taking a solid stance on the subject and actually sticking to it instead of acting like scared politicians caught in a lie.

WoD unarguably, objectively kept me engaged more than Cata or MoP.

Anecdotal at best. Thanks for sharing your experiences?

Why should I buy into your theories that no-flying is part of some conspiracy to cut corners (somehow) and rip off players? Whatever your "facts" state, I still had a good time and am looking forward to Legion.

Sigh....why do you guys always bring up the conspiracy thing? It's just business. They simply put profits ahead of quality and customer good-will and it cost them. WoD was sub-par in objective ways. Do I really need to point it out again? Less dungeons, smaller zones, no new race, no new class, no new profession, ANOTHER massive content drought, etc, etc, ad nausem.

I'm glad you were engaged and had fun, but how is that relevant? Fun is too subjective to be used as an arguing point. It has all the same problems as the 'immersion' argument.

[tylenol]

I remember the outcry during MoP when people were talking about the next expansion, how flying shouldn't be allowed in the new zones and how flying kills the world...

At max level in MoP when players were actually out in the world I couldn't go more then a few seconds without seeing people even late in the expansion but in WoD at max level on the same server I saw very few people but then again there wasn't much of a reason to go out into the world in WoD, I'm not sure how it is now with flying late in the expansion since like the millions of other people my sub ran out ages ago...I'm sure garrisons and the total lack of max level content outside of raiding did not help this situation.

People against flying for whatever reason forget that WoD didn't have flying for quite a while and what exactly did the game gain? the game lost more during that time then anytime before so? (not saying 5 mil people bailed because they couldn't fly, it was more the lack of content)...did all that "epic" world pvp you so desperately seek return? no it didn't, so why does being able to fly make any difference?

IIRC Blizzard had a pretty good reason for disabling flying and I think they said something along the lines of "we want you to experience the world" which is totally fine and I'm all for that the first time then after that it is the same shit I've already seen and maybe its just me but I really don't care how long Blizzards art department/modeling team spent reskinning some building or mountain that has been in the game for years, I don't care how detailed they made that thing over there, this is a video game, If I wanted to see amazing buildings or mountains then I'd take a medium sized map of planet earth, throw a dart and buy a plane ticket...

[Deleted]

Taking flight out of context is the source of misunderstanding and ignorance.

The larger problem IS relevant. It has become commonplace for game companies to ship unfinished products and outright lie about what their product is in order to make a sale or get a pre-order. Take a look at the phenomenon of Kickstarter projects that fail and the money disappears. Then look at "Early Access" sales of unfinished games, some of which NEVER actually get completed.

On top of that we have larger game companies falling into the practice of Day-1 DLC sales of software that's already in the game files, but locked behind a pay wall. There are many cases of games being shown off at major conventions(such as E3) via videos showing "in-game footage" which are later shown to be false. Aliens: Colonial Marines is a HUGE example of that sort of thing, but by no means the only one.

Over and over and over we see a trend of games being shipped in bug-ridden, exploit filled, unfinished states. Some of the more responsible game studios patch quickly, and otherwise ship with a completed product(The Witcher 3, for example). WoW falls somewhere in the middle of all this. Blizzard constantly shows off and talks about the things which are going to be in the game, then falls back on the "Changing conditions in development" excuse whenever it suits them.

The behavior and conduct of Blizzard over the past couple years has been getting worse and worse. The RMAH in Diablo. The ridiculously overpriced business model for heroes and skins in HotS. The shenanigans surrounding flight and the overall quality of WoD, as well as the insane content droughts. The use of a flying mount as a bonus for the collector's edition in an expansion which didn't have flight at the time, as well as the continued sale of flying mounts during a time when the expansion had no flight.

You can call it conspiracy theory if you want, but this is not the behavior of a company that's interested in making high-quality games. It's the behavior of a company trying to maximize profits even at the expense of customer good will, loyalty, and their reputation. "When it's ready" has been replaced by "Pre-Order NOW! Maybe we'll deliver what we hyped"

Frankly, I think it's shameful that so many people are so willing to jump to the defense of getting less while paying more. Specifically: Did removing flight actually gain WoW anything? Was there an extra raid tier? Was there a 'savage' open world that Blizzard promised? More dungeons? A new class or race? Was there ANYTHING of note that was gained by removing flight(other than some EXTREMELY subjective opinions on 'immersion'). Can you look at the objective facts of what features were provided with WoD(NOT your personal opinion of 'fun') and still say with a straight face that removing flight improved the game?

I seriously doubt it. As every objective point against removing flight has been well-rebutted and refuted over the course of this thread. The ONLY arguments are those which are highly subjective, and have no possibility of rebuttal: Blizzard's questionable 'vision' for the game, and people's personal concept of 'fun'.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh, I don't know. How about something along the same lines as all the garbage hype they're spewing constantly about every OTHER aspect of the expansion? Something, ANYTHING to show us that they're actually working on it and not just bullshitting. Or maybe, just maybe, they could rebuild some player confidence and loyalty by taking a solid stance on the subject and actually sticking to it instead of acting like scared politicians caught in a lie.




Anecdotal at best. Thanks for sharing your experiences?





Sigh....why do you guys always bring up the conspiracy thing? It's just business. They simply put profits ahead of quality and customer good-will and it cost them. WoD was sub-par in objective ways. Do I really need to point it out again? Less dungeons, smaller zones, no new race, no new class, no new profession, ANOTHER massive content drought, etc, etc, ad nausem.

I'm glad you were engaged and had fun, but how is that relevant? Fun is too subjective to be used as an arguing point. It has all the same problems as the 'immersion' argument.

Quoted for truth.

Immersion as a reason is overused by Blizzard. They couldn't deliver on any promise they made since years.

[Eapoe]

You really are out of the loop aren't you?

They didn't announce no flight during or before beta testing.
1. After some epic quest
2. First content patch
3. Wait and see
4. Only if the majority of people want it
5. No flight in WoD or any future content
6. Two weeks later or shit you guys were serious. We are bringing flight back you like us again?

They jerked the player base around in regards to flight for the entire expac. No matter your stance on flight, we should all agree that how they handled this was very very bad.

Yeah, you're right about the announcements. May=no flight for rest of xpac, June=flight in 6.2. Memory got mixed up from the announcement of no flight while leveling.

[Deleted]

Yeah, you're right about the announcements. May=no flight for rest of xpac, June=flight in 6.2. Memory got mixed up from the announcement of no flight while leveling.

Nope, no flight ever again and flight for WoD were both announced during the 6.2 PTR and were close to each other. They just couldn't fix their broken game in time so that the ability to fly was unlocked with 6.2.x.

It's fine to lock flight behind a meta achievement, BUT ONLY IF they also let us fly with 7.0 after we completed said meta achievement.

[Eapoe]

Taking flight out of context is the source of misunderstanding and ignorance.

The larger problem IS relevant. It has become commonplace for game companies to ship unfinished products and outright lie about what their product is in order to make a sale or get a pre-order. Take a look at the phenomenon of Kickstarter projects that fail and the money disappears. Then look at "Early Access" sales of unfinished games, some of which NEVER actually get completed.

On top of that we have larger game companies falling into the practice of Day-1 DLC sales of software that's already in the game files, but locked behind a pay wall. There are many cases of games being shown off at major conventions(such as E3) via videos showing "in-game footage" which are later shown to be false. Aliens: Colonial Marines is a HUGE example of that sort of thing, but by no means the only one.

Over and over and over we see a trend of games being shipped in bug-ridden, exploit filled, unfinished states. Some of the more responsible game studios patch quickly, and otherwise ship with a completed product(The Witcher 3, for example). WoW falls somewhere in the middle of all this. Blizzard constantly shows off and talks about the things which are going to be in the game, then falls back on the "Changing conditions in development" excuse whenever it suits them.

The behavior and conduct of Blizzard over the past couple years has been getting worse and worse. The RMAH in Diablo. The ridiculously overpriced business model for heroes and skins in HotS. The shenanigans surrounding flight and the overall quality of WoD, as well as the insane content droughts. The use of a flying mount as a bonus for the collector's edition in an expansion which didn't have flight at the time, as well as the continued sale of flying mounts during a time when the expansion had no flight.

You can call it conspiracy theory if you want, but this is not the behavior of a company that's interested in making high-quality games. It's the behavior of a company trying to maximize profits even at the expense of customer good will, loyalty, and their reputation. "When it's ready" has been replaced by "Pre-Order NOW! Maybe we'll deliver what we hyped"

Frankly, I think it's shameful that so many people are so willing to jump to the defense of getting less while paying more. Specifically: Did removing flight actually gain WoW anything? Was there an extra raid tier? Was there a 'savage' open world that Blizzard promised? More dungeons? A new class or race? Was there ANYTHING of note that was gained by removing flight(other than some EXTREMELY subjective opinions on 'immersion'). Can you look at the objective facts of what features were provided with WoD(NOT your personal opinion of 'fun') and still say with a straight face that removing flight improved the game?

I seriously doubt it. As every objective point against removing flight has been well-rebutted and refuted over the course of this thread. The ONLY arguments are those which are highly subjective, and have no possibility of rebuttal: Blizzard's questionable 'vision' for the game, and people's personal concept of 'fun'.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh, I don't know. How about something along the same lines as all the garbage hype they're spewing constantly about every OTHER aspect of the expansion? Something, ANYTHING to show us that they're actually working on it and not just bullshitting. Or maybe, just maybe, they could rebuild some player confidence and loyalty by taking a solid stance on the subject and actually sticking to it instead of acting like scared politicians caught in a lie.




Anecdotal at best. Thanks for sharing your experiences?





Sigh....why do you guys always bring up the conspiracy thing? It's just business. They simply put profits ahead of quality and customer good-will and it cost them. WoD was sub-par in objective ways. Do I really need to point it out again? Less dungeons, smaller zones, no new race, no new class, no new profession, ANOTHER massive content drought, etc, etc, ad nausem.

I'm glad you were engaged and had fun, but how is that relevant? Fun is too subjective to be used as an arguing point. It has all the same problems as the 'immersion' argument.

Again though, everything you are quoting is optional content that you don't need to participate in. The RMAH in D3 (which is no longer around and was a preemptive attempt for people to do something they've always done, paying for carries and gear with real money, and yes, I'm sure to get a little or themselves) to the skins in HotS. These are not necessary and in no way contribute to the game other than an asthetic.
While there was no flight at launch in the new zones, flight still existed in game and the mount still ran on the ground, so even a flying mount in the CE and even the in-game shop, they are still able to be used in other areas of the game.
I understand your point about "fun" and my quoting it, but at the same time you shoot it down as subjective (which it is and I've openly stated) and not good evidence while this in turn attempts to support people's subjective and anecdotal reasoning behind "I don't like not flying because it's not fun to me."
Content draught is non existent in a lot of ways. No, there may not be brand new content released all the time, but if you look at anyone's profiles I can gaurantee that almost everyone is not 100% complete on mounts and achievements, or have huge arena rankings. This is all content and something EVERYONE can do. I admit these things don't appeal to anyone, but let's face it, it's not that there is no content to do, it's just people don't want to do it.
As far as removing flight improving the game? That's a trap and you know it. It comes back to personal opinions on both fronts. I can't prove keeping flight out added anything just as much as you can't prove it didn't. Maybe leaving it out for a while sped up Tanaans release or let them tweak in game performance or focus on mechanics for raid bosses or even gave them more time to start working on Legion.

[huth]

For blizzard to change stance from "no flying ever again" to "ok here is flying back just dont moan about it" in 2 weeks meant that much more people cares about flying then you and people like you think. Blizzard have this data (when you unsub your write a reason, GM ticket surveys etc etc) and to do 180 on something they "firmly" believed in... However by that point, damage was already done.

No, it means there was a miscommunication somewhere. With how Blizzard usually works, a change like you claim happened wouldn't be possible in 2 weeks.

[Connll]

Again though, everything you are quoting is optional content that you don't need to participate in.

Wow, now that takes some nerve.

You have been in this thread accusing others of "wanting to skip content" via flight, and now you are trying to dismiss SirCowDog´s points because they are "optional content"? Content that he "does not need to participate"??

What the hell...

[SirCowdog]

Again though, everything you are quoting is optional content that you don't need to participate in. The RMAH in D3 (which is no longer around and was a preemptive attempt for people to do something they've always done, paying for carries and gear with real money, and yes, I'm sure to get a little or themselves) to the skins in HotS. These are not necessary and in no way contribute to the game other than an asthetic.
While there was no flight at launch in the new zones, flight still existed in game and the mount still ran on the ground, so even a flying mount in the CE and even the in-game shop, they are still able to be used in other areas of the game.

You completely missed the point. Everything I listed were just a few examples establishing a pattern of behavior out of Blizzard, and many other game companies, in recent years. It's not about whether or not the content is optional, it's about showing that Blizzard is making more and more attempts at trying to push players into giving them more money while delivering less. Some of those attempts are downright underhanded(such as removing flight from WoD and making excuses about the reasons). And the more willing players are to gloss over, accept, and defend such actions, the more companies like Blizzard will continue to push the limits.

This is not to say that the games Blizzard makes don't still have value, or parts that are good. The concepts I'm talking about aren't mutually exclusive. But how they handled flight in WoD(and the entire expansion of WoD for that matter) was dirty, unworthy, and borderline unethical. They overhyped their product, undercut development, removed baseline features from the game, put us in ANOTHER year long content drought(6.2 went live JUNE 2015!!!) and charged a subscription while raking in extra cash from the Blizzard store and gold-token sales the entire time, while STILL having the balls to ask for pre-orders for the next expansion!!!

I get that different people are going to have different opinions on what the value of the game is worth, and what they're willing to pay in order to have 'fun'. But jesus....wow. When you step back and look at the game objectively compared to previous expansions...basically, Blizzard really is screwing the players here. The scariest part is that people find this kind of business practice acceptable, and even step forward to defend it!

I'm not saying Blizzard needs to start giving away their game for free(no gold tokens are NOT free), but the quality AND quantity of Legion better be FUCKING UNBELIEVABLY amazing in order to justify what has been going on since Siege of Orgrimmar.

As far as removing flight improving the game? That's a trap and you know it. It comes back to personal opinions on both fronts. I can't prove keeping flight out added anything just as much as you can't prove it didn't. Maybe leaving it out for a while sped up Tanaans release or let them tweak in game performance or focus on mechanics for raid bosses or even gave them more time to start working on Legion.

/facepalm

Except the entire part where Blizzard leadership LITERALLY said that removing flight would allow them to make a better expansion. And clearly WoD was NOT a better expansion. This isn't a complex or difficult concept, and both pro and anti flight players agree on that point across the board.

I'm sorry, at this point I applaud your dedication to defending Blizzard. But you're outright wrong in this case, and just don't want to admit it. In that regard you're as bad as Blizzard.

[Wolfrick]

It is great to not have flight, if you ask me just Remove Flying all over, Since when people are on the Ground there is more interactions.

Like when you Quest from level 1 to 60, you meet people everywhere, it gives you a hint to interact (Which is the very essence of an MMO), I think it should be like that all over the World.

Since we have STATIC PORTALS, Flight Paths. we dont need flying in the outdoor world.

Blizzard I love you for sticking to your idea! KEEP IT UP!!! You have all of my support and also of my friends ^^

[Deleted]

Ok, so I want to give my piece of mind to this thread too. Anyone saying that "a vocal minority" cares about flying is just wrong. Being able to fly is a passionate subject for MANY players as this thread and many others show. People want to fly and some people seem to almost have a sadistic joy with telling people that they are not allowed to fly. Why do you care if I can fly or not? I flew for years during 4 expansions and the game was not ruined, did you hate all us flying players them?

Yes, I understand blizzard wants you to see their new zones. Its fair then to limit flying for like 1-2 months of the expansion, thats about it.

Limiting flying further than that is just uneccesary and hurts blizzard because alot of players want to fly and blizzard gains nothing by keeping them grounded. Its a terrible market decision to keep players grounded and that alone should make sure flying comes fairly soon after the Legion launch.

That said, even if Legion had flying from day 1, it woudlnt be enogh to bring me back to play. But it would atleast make me consider coming back.

[Deleted]

Ok, so I want to give my piece of mind to this thread too. Anyone saying that "a vocal minority" cares about flying is just wrong. Being able to fly is a passionate subject for MANY players as this thread and many others show. People want to fly and some people seem to almost have a sadistic joy with telling people that they are not allowed to fly. Why do you care if I can fly or not? I flew for years during 4 expansions and the game was not ruined, did you hate all us flying players them?

Yes, I understand blizzard wants you to see their new zones. Its fair then to limit flying for like 1-2 months of the expansion, thats about it.

Limiting flying further than that is just uneccesary and hurts blizzard because alot of players want to fly and blizzard gains nothing by keeping them grounded. Its a terrible market decision to keep players grounded and that alone should make sure flying comes fairly soon after the Legion launch.

That said, even if Legion had flying from day 1, it woudlnt be enogh to bring me back to play. But it would atleast make me consider coming back.

What is it about flying that you feel so passionate about?

I'm one of those that really thinks flying is one of the worst misstakes Blizzard ever made in WoW. I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy flying I just think it's bad for the game. It has nothing to do with me enjoying telling you what you can and can't like.

[Deleted]

Usually i support no flying but with Dalaran in wotlk flying had a purpose. Will be weird to have Dalaran as main city in Legion and have no flying.

[Zalamander]

What is it about flying that you feel so passionate about?

I'm one of those that really thinks flying is one of the worst misstakes Blizzard ever made in WoW. I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy flying I just think it's bad for the game. It has nothing to do with me enjoying telling you what you can and can't like.

Asking a person why you want to be able to fly is about as stupid as asking some one why they want to live m8.

But coming this late in this thread asking a question that has been answered hundreds(thousands?) of times already by so many passionate people who love flying and seeing the world freely from any point in the sky might be even more stupid...

[Incarnia]

Asking a person why you want to be able to fly is about as stupid as asking some one why they want to live m8.

But coming this late in this thread asking a question that has been answered hundreds(thousands?) of times already by so many passionate people who love flying and seeing the world freely from any point in the sky might be even more stupid...

I would assume he's one of those that's actually not interested at all in understanding the other "sides" perspective, he's just here to stir shit up and argue for the sake of arguing. There's no other logical explanation to it. Since as you pointed out, there's plenty upon plenty of well constructed posts in this thread already answering that exact question of his. You don't even have to look that hard to them them either.

[Loeve]

When I heard there would be no fly in wod I didnt really care. But after some time I missed flying. Then I got flying, and it was awesome, but it was at the end of the expansion and I quit a couple weeks later. What do I need flying for when the expansion is over? We should be able to fly after we hit 110 or 1-2 months after. NOT at the end of Legion, it doesnt make sense.

The reason I got tired of ground mount was mostly how Draenor was made, especially Nagrand. So many mountains and wandering around looking for a way up. It just got so annoying after a while. If the maps were more flat like in vanilla I couldnt care less about flying

[Mafic]

Usually i support no flying but with Dalaran in wotlk flying had a purpose. Will be weird to have Dalaran as main city in Legion and have no flying.

Agreed 100%.

What made WotLK epic was flying to Dalaran or flying from Dalaran to the tower in the middle of Dragonblight or the flying quest hubs over Icecrown. Lots of rich memories and really was a step up from BC where flying was used to only access content in Bladespire mountain and some other areas for max level players.

[TyrianFC]

Agreed 100%.

What made WotLK epic was flying to Dalaran or flying from Dalaran to the tower in the middle of Dragonblight or the flying quest hubs over Icecrown. Lots of rich memories and really was a step up from BC where flying was used to only access content in Bladespire mountain and some other areas for max level players.

I hope you dont expect anyone to believe this bullshit.

You think 'what made wotlk epic' was flying from Dalaran to quest hubs? haha.