No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[sykoex]

Agreed 100%.

What made WotLK epic was flying to Dalaran or flying from Dalaran to the tower in the middle of Dragonblight or the flying quest hubs over Icecrown. Lots of rich memories and really was a step up from BC where flying was used to only access content in Bladespire mountain and some other areas for max level players.

Flying in general is an epic concept. It's sad that they tried to rip it away from the game. I'm glad it's back though.

[Deleted]

I hope you dont expect anyone to believe this bullshit.

You think 'what made wotlk epic' was flying from Dalaran to quest hubs? haha.

Well I belive it. I have strong memories flying from each Daily hub to the next in Wotlk and it was fun because I was in control and it was not going afk for 10 like the Sha'tari Skyguard flight path from their hubs. I remember flying from the Argent Tournament and suddendly finding Time Lost Proto Drake! Desperatly flying there and finding it first for an epic mount.

Giving players control of flying can be very empowering and taking it away has evidently made alot of people upset. This is our opinion and its not bullshit.

[Mafic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dXQcL4jC0

The comments are funny to read.

[Faylum1]

Flight isn't to blame and you know this.

LFR, LFD, etc etc is what killed the MMO... flight had nothing to do with it.

Bollox. There are several factors to WoW's decline and almost all of them are due to the current 'Entitled' player base who complain about literally everything, even the changes made specifically for them. The gaming generation of today is what has killed communities in all games. Who are these people?

Narcissistic, selfish, cry babies.

"Zomg blizzard why you no give us flying mounts, omg i wana just quit this century, give me my flying mount".

Simple answer, No. Stfu complaining about minor insignificant things. I dislike having to run around as much as the next person but flying over zones, removes far more than just your selfish want. Regardless of whether you like it or not, not being able to skip zones at whim forces you into the community. And maybe you might chance a meet someone along the way that needs your help or can help you? Maybe you meet no one but see a node, you go to take it and get into a fight. Aww no you died... or you buried your axe in his skull... the point is that something random can happen, its not always about what YOU want. You think because you pay a subscription that you are Entitled to play the game as you feel but you are subscribed to THEIR game and you have a choice not to play it their way.
Spontaneous chance is a wonder in any game, sometimes you lose and it doesn't feel very good but that is what makes you feel good when you win. You cannot respect an achievement or a success without suffering defeat. Being secluded and allowed to vanish from the world is a crime in itself. There should be no garrisons and no class halls but Blizzard has been so arrogant in its business model that they have been cutting as many corners as they can in order to spend less and less on decent servers. Which is why servers crash on expansion launches and everything now is a phase rather than seamless open world.

The idea that you can ignore Hubs by flying around them or land directly on top of nodes and then fly off without even engaging in the open world is a sin. No flying mounts is a brutal way of forcing people to have chance meets. And in a game that has all but destroyed itself with these pathetic and trivial conveniences, that is something that should not be implemented because some cry babies who most likely joined late Cata and early MoP miss not being able to skim through the game at their own leisure. This generation of moaners, whine connoisseurs and social media prostitutes need to learn that in MMO's you must engage in the community, be apart of the world and challenge themselves for whatever gains they seek.

You say LFR is the problem just like every other Band Wagon Banjo player but its not. Blizzard may be a little at fault for being so submissive to the vocal part of the community but it is PEOPLE, who are to blame for the state of WoW. Not the age of the game, not the dungeon finders and the lack of repercussions for being a dick on raids or in bgs. Wankers have existed in games long before 'Trolling' became a 4chan meme. What is really killing this game is the amount of moronic bitching about unnecessary things. Transmog & Flying being the flagships in this epic Salt Water battle.
There are so many things in Legion that are troubling the community, legitimate things, such as the pruning, the WPvP and the relative ease of playing what use to be sophisticated characters and yet almost the entire community is engaged in tampon throwing match.

This bullshit thread is the biggest waste of time. Meanwhile blizzard is being met only barely by dedicated players who are trying to maintain the complexity and the uniqueness of the game. Legion is set to simplify World of Warcraft and reduce it to the stage where 8-12 year olds can pick it up and play. (Look at their new storyline 'the Traveller'. Why would Blizzard aim a teens game at children if they didn't want them playing this game?)
So i suggest this sandy community get over the whole No Flying bullshit and focus on what is actually happening to Warcraft. Because if you hate the dickheads in LFR, BGs and Tradechat now, Imagine what the game will be like when Kids who can barely even speak join the game.

Such childish bickering, maybe the next generation of babies are already here.

[Connll]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dXQcL4jC0

The comments are funny to read.

I find it depressing. So many players that could be still playing, but are now lost subs.

And the WoW dev´s reaction to that? Just as intended. We´re doing to the same for Legion.

[Bun-Bun]

Ok per Blizz themselves "We will only enable flight if the majority of players want it"

Ok then they announce "No flight in WoD or any future content"

Two weeks later "Flight is returning"

So that tells me that the majority of people want flight, so honestly the only thing up for discussion is when.

Yup. Exactly.

Anyone who can't see that obvious conclusion from those series of events has the blinders on.

- - - Updated - - -

To be fair, the forums explode on every topic Blizzard puts out.
How do you know specifically what feedback they got to say it was largely indicative of being flights fault?

From conversations I had with GMs on the topic. And yes the forums blow up about everything blizzard puts out, but flight has been a topic on the blizzard forums for almost 3 years now. I can't think of any other topic that has gotten so much attention as how shitty blizzard has handled this.

When they announced no flight ever I quit. When I canceled my sub a GM contacted me and chatted with me for about 45 minutes on the issue. The majority of users canceling subs around that time were about the announcement of no flight. Prior to that people thought it was still coming so they went about there day. But then the first actual official response on the topic from Blizzard was no flight ever... shit hit the fan.

Like honestly, what do they expect when they don't actually communicate with the playerbase about it? Prior to that announcement there was nothing on the blizzard site about no flight in Draenor. Looking at all the Draenor publicity stuff and box art and everything else suggested flight was going to be there. I don't blame Bashiok for quiting. He was thrown under the bus on this.

Then I ignored wow for a few months and find out that two weeks after the announcement that they back pedaled on the issue. Seriously? How can they be so blind. Then I found out they were doing the same shit in legion so I canceled my sub again (I had renewed to go unlock flight in draenor). Again a GM starting a convo and talked with me for a bit about why I was quiting. Discussed the whole fiasco around those two big announcements and the feedback they were getting from it.

Its really sad that the people communicating with the playerbase are kept in the dark.

[SirCowdog]

Bollox. There are several factors to WoW's decline and almost all of them are due to the current 'Entitled' player base who complain about literally everything, even the changes made specifically for them. The gaming generation of today is what has killed communities in all games. Who are these people?

Oh...I don't know. Maybe they're people who have been playing and supporting the game since day 1, and the same people who have had flight for nearly a decade? It's not entitlement when players have sunk years of time and thousands of dollars into it. There are players who have put more time into the game than some of the devs. Maybe you should let that sink in for a bit.

Narcissistic, selfish, cry babies.

Namecalling isn't going to help your argument.

"Zomg blizzard why you no give us flying mounts, omg i wana just quit this century, give me my flying mount".

Strawman and disingenuous statements like this won't help you either.

Simple answer, No. Stfu complaining about minor insignificant things.

The magnitude of this argument, and the fact that it's still going on across multiple forums and the community would point to how it's NOT insignificant. The fact that even Blizzard recognizes its important enough to reverse their decision points to how it's not insignificant.

I dislike having to run around as much as the next person but flying over zones, removes far more than just your selfish want. Regardless of whether you like it or not, not being able to skip zones at whim forces you into the community. And maybe you might chance a meet someone along the way that needs your help or can help you? Maybe you meet no one but see a node, you go to take it and get into a fight. Aww no you died... or you buried your axe in his skull... the point is that something random can happen, its not always about what YOU want.

This has been refuted and rebutted several times already. Encounters happen when the content is good enough to make players WANT to gather and interact, not because they're FORCED to.

You think because you pay a subscription that you are Entitled to play the game as you feel but you are subscribed to THEIR game and you have a choice not to play it their way.

This isn't about trying to claim that our $15 a month allows us to dictate to Blizzard how the game is designed. What it IS about, however, is providing passionate feedback to them about how the design without flying is stupid, weak, and hurts the game more than whatever fringe benefit they gain from it not being there.

Additionally, despite it being "Blizzard's Game and they can do what they want", they can't simply ignore feedback from the players forever. Clearly SOMETHING caused 5 million players to leave WoD. I'm not one of those who claims it was ONLY flying, but I strongly believe that it was a major factor in the equation. And clearly enough people also feel that way and gave feedback to that effect, causing Blizzard to reverse their decision and put flight back in the game.

That is NOT without value, nor is that the effect of a 'vocal minority'.

The idea that you can ignore Hubs by flying around them or land directly on top of nodes and then fly off without even engaging in the open world is a sin.

Then maybe Blizzard should change the way in which nodes, hubs, quests, and mob AI works. Because removing flight didn't address any of those issues. This is another one of the scapegoat arguments anti-fliers like to troll out. There are numerous ways to avoid content if a player doesn't want to engage with it. Invisibility, stealth, CC, riding past using Stables 3, using pets to hold aggro while you do whatever, etc, etc, etc, ad nausem.

The problem is NOT flight. It's the weak design of the content that makes people want to skip it out of irritation, boredome, annoyance, or disinterest. The real solution is to make better content!

No flying mounts is a brutal way of forcing people to have chance meets.

You can not FORCE someone to have fun. Every time I see this argument I cringe at how BAD it is.

And in a game that has all but destroyed itself with these pathetic and trivial conveniences, that is something that should not be implemented because some cry babies who most likely joined late Cata and early MoP miss not being able to skim through the game at their own leisure. This generation of moaners, whine connoisseurs and social media prostitutes need to learn that in MMO's you must engage in the community, be apart of the world and challenge themselves for whatever gains they seek.

More name calling....really?

This sounds more like your own personal nostalgia. I played since vanilla too, and all of those conveniences you mentioned exist for a good reason. What was that reason? The game back then was needlessly tedious and annoying. Maybe YOU want a server where mounts don't exist at all and you have to run everywhere on foot without benefit of even a travel form.

Furthermore, who says a person MUST engage with the community at all? What about that guy who leveled up past 60 by just picking herbs on the starter panda island? He clearly was having fun, and had nothing to do with the community. How about the person who just likes to solo old content? Does he HAVE to be part of the community? What about the solo BG player? What about the small group of friends who just like 5 man content and couldn't care less if anyone else even existed in the game?

Your problem is that you're imposing your own personal method and desires for how to play the game on the entire population of the playerbase. At last count there were 5 million players. That's 5 million people with different ideas, different approaches, and different styles of playing the game. ALL of the play the game in a slightly different manner. Some keyboard turn, some click, some use highly advanced gaming mice. Some people use fully customized UIs with a bazillion addons, some use the basic default.

My point by listing all that? It's to get you to understand that taking away options and attempting to FORCE people to all play in the same way is a mistake. Clearly enough people like the option to fly to make it worth putting in the game. THE OPTION! Read that again, because I put it in caps for emphasis. Being able to choose to fly or not should be a thing. I've suggested a few times now that it should be a real choice, and that the core mechanics of how flight works needs to evolve like every other aspect of the game. Make being on the ground give a bonus of some kind.

Simply removing flight was tried by Blizzard. It failed. Repeating the weak arguments that have already been proven wrong also fails. Namecalling fails. If you REALLY believe that the game can be better without flight, then you need to do better than that. You need to come up with ACTUAL reasons how the game is IMPROVED, and not just reverted back to vanilla.

[satimy]

Its telling that blizzard wont give a concrete answer on flight, they clearly know there answer will majorly effect sub numbers and purchases. But by giving half answers they get 3 months out of everyone and then lose half their playerbase when they finally come out and say "flights bad for the game". Apparently not having flight is so good that you lose over half your subs.

#blizzlogic

[Faylum1]

I've played the game for 10 years and sunk hundreds into it also, so i am having a think about it and i have determined that 'FORCING' people to use ground mounts most the expansion is 'FUN'. And since there are critics to this debate in equal number does that not then mean that everything you said is as irrelevant as you attempted to make my statement?
Calling people cry babies and narcissistic isn't name calling its using the truth to unmask what is actually going on. 'Waaah waah... i want to skip content at my own whim'. The funny thing is that since you have not played Legion and they have told you that Flying mounts wont be in the game until mid expansion at the least, you have no argument. You are not accepting their game terms and if that is not fun for you, then go find a game that you think paying a subscription entitles you to get your own way. Its their game design and they obviously have a reason for wanting to keep players on the ground but rather than just accept that you will get it eventually you'd SELFISHLY demand that all them other people who don't want flying to ruin game immersion play to YOUR standard.

See your argument seems civil and seems to break down and argue my points but actually all you did was skim through the post quoting things that can make me look like some sort of name caller so you could back up your hollow greed to have the game work exactly the way you want it to. Bla bla bla, name calling, bla bla bla, your point... bla bla bla name calling... and so on.

I think the best quote from your epic whine is this "who says a person MUST engage with the community at all?". You're playing an MMO and have the audacity to say something like that? Nothing wrong with doing things alone but what you are implying is that WoW should cater to the solo experience OVER the community based design ALL MMO's follow.

You argument is retarded, if you use things like people have a right and bla bla bla whatever other junk you spewed out because what about the polar opposites, people who don't want flying. Just because they have not registered to MMO Champion or post regularly on the American forums doesn't mean there isn't more of them than there is of you.
Blizzard says there is about 5million people playing WoW today and yet only about 200 maybe 300 people have complained about flying... hmm yes i see, lets change things because the majority of bitchy people want it.
And i never stated that i wanted flight removed, in fact i never even stated what i wanted to begin with, i just understand both sides and have a non bias opinion based on Blizzards design. You care only about yourself, that is your entire argument in a nutshell, YOU dont want to have to 'ENGAGE' in the community, that is your own words.

Narcissism. Makes people think they should get what they want because they want it. Accept the fact that blizzard said no and stfu. Go complain about something that actually legitimately matters, like character pruning or end game content. Wasting your time bitching about flying over zones. Use a fucking Flight Path and get more involved the immersion instead of skipping things just because you can only spare an hour a day. That is not my fault or anyone elses.

- - - Updated - - -

Its telling that blizzard wont give a concrete answer on flight, they clearly know there answer will majorly effect sub numbers and purchases. But by giving half answers they get 3 months out of everyone and then lose half their playerbase when they finally come out and say "flights bad for the game". Apparently not having flight is so good that you lose over half your subs.

#blizzlogic

Truth of the matter is if you would quit the game over a flying mount you are one pathetic person. But here is a fact, people who quit over a flying mount will return and blizzard know that. You gonna quit an entire expansion because you can't fly over zones? No, any sane person would stick to the game regardless. So all this speculation on sub loss due to flying mount is ludicrous. Absolutely ridiculous. Bunch of babies throwing Tantrums.

[Truefacts]

You argument is retarded

This is the only valuable part of what you just wrote, because it perfectly describes that well of text you just squatted down and shat out upon the forum. You've clearly never read any arguments that support flight because everything you just said has been refuted time and time again.

you'd SELFISHLY demand that all them other people who don't want flying to ruin game immersion play to YOUR standard.


if you use things like people have a right and bla bla bla whatever other junk you spewed out because what about the polar opposites, people who don't want flying

Then don't fly. You can make that choice. Just because it's available doesn't mean you have to use it. Forcing other people to not fly because you don't want to is exactly what you claimed - selfish. At least allowing flight gives people the option to do it or not.

Go complain about something that actually legitimately matters, like character pruning or end game content

"It's not important to ME, therefore it cannot be important to YOU!" lol. I fully intended to respond to everything you said but it's all literally so mind-numbing I cannot complete the task.

Truth of the matter is if you would quit the game over a flying mount you are one pathetic person. But here is a fact, people who quit over a flying mount will return and blizzard know that. You gonna quit an entire expansion because you can't fly over zones? No, any sane person would stick to the game regardless. So all this speculation on sub loss due to flying mount is ludicrous. Absolutely ridiculous. Bunch of babies throwing Tantrums.

When Blizzard finally announced there would be no flight in WOD for sure, they lost the largest chunk of players in that quarter than they've ever lost before. Those numbers have not recovered in the slightest, and they were so bad that Blizzard stopped posting subscription numbers with their earning calls. You're wrong and you'll remain wrong.

[Dhrizzle]

Oh, I don't know. How about something along the same lines as all the garbage hype they're spewing constantly about every OTHER aspect of the expansion? Something, ANYTHING to show us that they're actually working on it and not just bullshitting. Or maybe, just maybe, they could rebuild some player confidence and loyalty by taking a solid stance on the subject and actually sticking to it instead of acting like scared politicians caught in a lie.

So you want some garbage hype for how awesome flight will be when it gets unlocked in 7.X and you want progress update on a meta-achievement? Considering the expansion is still being produced I doubt Legion's pathfinder has been finalised, so anything they announce now might be changed, which tends to upset players who see it as broken promises.

We know that flying won't be available at launch but it will come in a later patch. I don't know how much more of a solid stance they can take with it.

Anecdotal at best. Thanks for sharing your experiences?

What more could I offer in response to your query?

Sigh....why do you guys always bring up the conspiracy thing? It's just business. They simply put profits ahead of quality and customer good-will and it cost them. WoD was sub-par in objective ways. Do I really need to point it out again? Less dungeons, smaller zones, no new race, no new class, no new profession, ANOTHER massive content drought, etc, etc, ad nausem.

Smaller zones compared to what? Draenor was a similar size to Outland, smaller than Northrend but bigger than Pandaria. Also it's not as if Blizz pay by the square-foot for producing areas. Looking at the quality of the artwork, do you think Draenor was cheaper than all the other expansions to produce? Ditto with the dungeons, whilst there is an argument that Blizz could be pumping out more dungeons by recycling assets, like they did in TBC and WotLK, it doesn't mean they're being "lazy" or "cheap" with the dungeons they are producing.

I'm glad you were engaged and had fun, but how is that relevant? Fun is too subjective to be used as an arguing point. It has all the same problems as the 'immersion' argument.

How is it relevant? Well if we assume I'm not unique in being engaged and having fun, it means that Blizzard are producing a game that players find engaging and fun. That's why people are willing to defend them, because they're making a product that is enjoyed.

[Zalamander]

Smaller zones compared to what? Draenor was a similar size to Outland, smaller than Northrend but bigger than Pandaria.

But yeah actually... since it was smaller than the one that is smaller, than the one you claim its larger than, its kinda confusing.
I refere you to this arguement broken apart at point 3. "A world’s size is dictated by volume of content, not speed in which it’s traversed."
http://inanage.com/2015/05/25/a-flight-too-far/

[Eapoe]

But yeah actually... since it was smaller than the one that is smaller, than the one you claim its larger than, its kinda confusing.
I refere you to this arguement broken apart at point 3. "A world’s size is dictated by volume of content, not speed in which it’s traversed."
http://inanage.com/2015/05/25/a-flight-too-far/

Literally, a worlds size is dictated by size. If you want to know how big they are, get on a flying mount and fly along the edge of each and determine how long it takes you to traverse the area. Figuratively, a world can feel bigger the more there is to do or the more you see. A 1500 square foot house compared to another 1500 square food house can feel drastically different and seem like more or less depending on how it's designed, just like rearranging furniture in a room can give more space. Did you remove or add anything? No, you just moved it around and opened the area up.

[Dhrizzle]

But yeah actually... since it was smaller than the one that is smaller, than the one you claim its larger than, its kinda confusing.
I refere you to this arguement broken apart at point 3. "A world’s size is dictated by volume of content, not speed in which it’s traversed."
http://inanage.com/2015/05/25/a-flight-too-far/

Any idea where those quest numbers come from, because WoWhead's database disagrees.

[satimy]

I've played the game for 10 years and sunk hundreds into it also, so i am having a think about it and i have determined that 'FORCING' people to use ground mounts most the expansion is 'FUN'. And since there are critics to this debate in equal number does that not then mean that everything you said is as irrelevant as you attempted to make my statement?
Calling people cry babies and narcissistic isn't name calling its using the truth to unmask what is actually going on. 'Waaah waah... i want to skip content at my own whim'. The funny thing is that since you have not played Legion and they have told you that Flying mounts wont be in the game until mid expansion at the least, you have no argument. You are not accepting their game terms and if that is not fun for you, then go find a game that you think paying a subscription entitles you to get your own way. Its their game design and they obviously have a reason for wanting to keep players on the ground but rather than just accept that you will get it eventually you'd SELFISHLY demand that all them other people who don't want flying to ruin game immersion play to YOUR standard.

See your argument seems civil and seems to break down and argue my points but actually all you did was skim through the post quoting things that can make me look like some sort of name caller so you could back up your hollow greed to have the game work exactly the way you want it to. Bla bla bla, name calling, bla bla bla, your point... bla bla bla name calling... and so on.

I think the best quote from your epic whine is this "who says a person MUST engage with the community at all?". You're playing an MMO and have the audacity to say something like that? Nothing wrong with doing things alone but what you are implying is that WoW should cater to the solo experience OVER the community based design ALL MMO's follow.

You argument is retarded, if you use things like people have a right and bla bla bla whatever other junk you spewed out because what about the polar opposites, people who don't want flying. Just because they have not registered to MMO Champion or post regularly on the American forums doesn't mean there isn't more of them than there is of you.
Blizzard says there is about 5million people playing WoW today and yet only about 200 maybe 300 people have complained about flying... hmm yes i see, lets change things because the majority of bitchy people want it.
And i never stated that i wanted flight removed, in fact i never even stated what i wanted to begin with, i just understand both sides and have a non bias opinion based on Blizzards design. You care only about yourself, that is your entire argument in a nutshell, YOU dont want to have to 'ENGAGE' in the community, that is your own words.

Narcissism. Makes people think they should get what they want because they want it. Accept the fact that blizzard said no and stfu. Go complain about something that actually legitimately matters, like character pruning or end game content. Wasting your time bitching about flying over zones. Use a fucking Flight Path and get more involved the immersion instead of skipping things just because you can only spare an hour a day. That is not my fault or anyone elses.

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Truth of the matter is if you would quit the game over a flying mount you are one pathetic person. But here is a fact, people who quit over a flying mount will return and blizzard know that. You gonna quit an entire expansion because you can't fly over zones? No, any sane person would stick to the game regardless. So all this speculation on sub loss due to flying mount is ludicrous. Absolutely ridiculous. Bunch of babies throwing Tantrums.

half the sub base is pathetic then

[SirCowdog]

So you want some garbage hype for how awesome flight will be when it gets unlocked in 7.X and you want progress update on a meta-achievement? Considering the expansion is still being produced I doubt Legion's pathfinder has been finalised, so anything they announce now might be changed, which tends to upset players who see it as broken promises.

We know that flying won't be available at launch but it will come in a later patch. I don't know how much more of a solid stance they can take with it.

Really all it would take is a simple statement to the effect of something like: "Guys, we know flight is a big issue for a lot of people. We just wanted to know that it will still be in Legion and that we're still working on it, but don't have anything specific to disclose at this time. We're sticking with our plan to not have it in for 7.0, but will release it in a later patch."

I know that's not much, and it wouldn't change any of the expectations from what they've already said. But it would still be better than the stonewall radio silence on the subject so far. Instead, they'd rather poke fun and irritate the community by making April Fool's jokes.

Although in a completely theoretical situation, they'd set a patch for the release of flight and actually stick to it. "Guys, we're going ahead with a plan to put the unlock for flight in 7.1", then simply not release 7.1 until it's ready. They seem perfectly happy to run year long content droughts for other parts of the game, I don't see why this should be any different.

What more could I offer in response to your query?

Something rational and concrete. But I'll concede this point and rephrase: How much would Blizzard have to remove from the game before your 'fun' didn't match the box price + subscription. What type of behavior would it take from Blizzard to stop you from supporting them? Do you ever even consider these concepts, or do you just buy without thinking, and keep playing until the magic 'fun' meter runs out?

Smaller zones compared to what? Draenor was a similar size to Outland, smaller than Northrend but bigger than Pandaria. Also it's not as if Blizz pay by the square-foot for producing areas. Looking at the quality of the artwork, do you think Draenor was cheaper than all the other expansions to produce? Ditto with the dungeons, whilst there is an argument that Blizz could be pumping out more dungeons by recycling assets, like they did in TBC and WotLK, it doesn't mean they're being "lazy" or "cheap" with the dungeons they are producing.

Except that one of their main excuses about flight is that it "forces zones to be bigger", implying that creating larger zones is more difficult and takes more time. So apparently they DO pay by the foot.

I'm not a geometry wizard, but I've seen posts where someone literally did the math and broke down the zone sizes, and WoD was overall smaller than previous expansion areas.

How is it relevant? Well if we assume I'm not unique in being engaged and having fun, it means that Blizzard are producing a game that players find engaging and fun. That's why people are willing to defend them, because they're making a product that is enjoyed.

And what about all the people who are defending because of confirmation bias? What about all the people who have an addiction problem? What about all the people who are simply too invested in the game to be objective?

You can have fun with the game while still recognizing that Blizzard did some underhanded and unacceptable things in WoD. I can accept people saying "I had fun in WoD, so I don't care what Blizzard did.", but what I can't accept are the people who are saying "I had fun in WoD, so Blizzard didn't do anything wrong."

Do you see the difference? Does that make sense?

[Deleted]

It is great to not have flight, if you ask me just Remove Flying all over, Since when people are on the Ground there is more interactions.

Like when you Quest from level 1 to 60, you meet people everywhere, it gives you a hint to interact (Which is the very essence of an MMO), I think it should be like that all over the World.

Since we have STATIC PORTALS, Flight Paths. we dont need flying in the outdoor world.

Blizzard I love you for sticking to your idea! KEEP IT UP!!! You have all of my support and also of my friends ^^

What interactions? I was once helping out somebody who was not able to kill a 3-person-elite by himself and asked for help in /1, and I met that character later in Nagrand and the player did not recognize me. Any other interaction was initiated via trade chat or forum. Wow, how interactive the world was without flying...

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I hope you dont expect anyone to believe this bullshit.

You think 'what made wotlk epic' was flying from Dalaran to quest hubs? haha.

You surely see more from the world from a bird's perspective. When you are surrounded by trees, you constantly have only a small glimpse on the world. But you can only recognize epicness from above.

He is right, you are too stupid to understand that the word "epic" means more than violet pixels.

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Its telling that blizzard wont give a concrete answer on flight, they clearly know there answer will majorly effect sub numbers and purchases. But by giving half answers they get 3 months out of everyone and then lose half their playerbase when they finally come out and say "flights bad for the game". Apparently not having flight is so good that you lose over half your subs.

#blizzlogic

Even if no-flight was not the reason for quitting - the bad gaming experience surely was. They have removed flight so they could create a better gaming experience, they said. They have delivered only in the 1st time leveling. After that, the experience became abysmal if you were not raiding.

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I've played the game for 10 years and sunk hundreds into it also, so i am having a think about it and i have determined that 'FORCING' people to use ground mounts most the expansion is 'FUN'. And since there are critics to this debate in equal number does that not then mean that everything you said is as irrelevant as you attempted to make my statement?
Calling people cry babies and narcissistic isn't name calling its using the truth to unmask what is actually going on. 'Waaah waah... i want to skip content at my own whim'. The funny thing is that since you have not played Legion and they have told you that Flying mounts wont be in the game until mid expansion at the least, you have no argument. You are not accepting their game terms and if that is not fun for you, then go find a game that you think paying a subscription entitles you to get your own way. Its their game design and they obviously have a reason for wanting to keep players on the ground but rather than just accept that you will get it eventually you'd SELFISHLY demand that all them other people who don't want flying to ruin game immersion play to YOUR standard.

See your argument seems civil and seems to break down and argue my points but actually all you did was skim through the post quoting things that can make me look like some sort of name caller so you could back up your hollow greed to have the game work exactly the way you want it to. Bla bla bla, name calling, bla bla bla, your point... bla bla bla name calling... and so on.

I think the best quote from your epic whine is this "who says a person MUST engage with the community at all?". You're playing an MMO and have the audacity to say something like that? Nothing wrong with doing things alone but what you are implying is that WoW should cater to the solo experience OVER the community based design ALL MMO's follow.

You argument is retarded, if you use things like people have a right and bla bla bla whatever other junk you spewed out because what about the polar opposites, people who don't want flying. Just because they have not registered to MMO Champion or post regularly on the American forums doesn't mean there isn't more of them than there is of you.
Blizzard says there is about 5million people playing WoW today and yet only about 200 maybe 300 people have complained about flying... hmm yes i see, lets change things because the majority of bitchy people want it.
And i never stated that i wanted flight removed, in fact i never even stated what i wanted to begin with, i just understand both sides and have a non bias opinion based on Blizzards design. You care only about yourself, that is your entire argument in a nutshell, YOU dont want to have to 'ENGAGE' in the community, that is your own words.

Narcissism. Makes people think they should get what they want because they want it. Accept the fact that blizzard said no and stfu. Go complain about something that actually legitimately matters, like character pruning or end game content. Wasting your time bitching about flying over zones. Use a fucking Flight Path and get more involved the immersion instead of skipping things just because you can only spare an hour a day. That is not my fault or anyone elses.

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Truth of the matter is if you would quit the game over a flying mount you are one pathetic person. But here is a fact, people who quit over a flying mount will return and blizzard know that. You gonna quit an entire expansion because you can't fly over zones? No, any sane person would stick to the game regardless. So all this speculation on sub loss due to flying mount is ludicrous. Absolutely ridiculous. Bunch of babies throwing Tantrums.

Sorry, but you are the ignorant narcisst here. While pro-flyers are able to consider the arguments of no-flyers, which is absolutely needed to be able to counter such argument - what pro-flyers have done over and over - no-flyers religiously stick to their position and impose their world view on others like some brainwashed missionaries. From BC to MoP, we have had flight. They have even revamped the old world for flying. It's bad content and bad concepts which have led to the downsliding of the game, not flying. They do not learn from their failures, and change things just for the sake of changing.

[Cooper]

"Random social encounters" (whatever the actual phrasing) in this topic is always code for "ganking lowbies who can't get away."

[Deleted]

Truth of the matter is if you would quit the game over a flying mount you are one pathetic person. But here is a fact, people who quit over a flying mount will return and blizzard know that. You gonna quit an entire expansion because you can't fly over zones? No, any sane person would stick to the game regardless. So all this speculation on sub loss due to flying mount is ludicrous. Absolutely ridiculous. Bunch of babies throwing Tantrums.

Sorry ,but that's only YOUR opinion, not a fact. Any same person stops paying for a product they no longer like, FOR WHAT EVER REASON.
Sane people are not sticking to this game. Mostly fans of Blizzards warcraft universe do. Sane people see other products offer way more for less money. I don't say "anyone still playing this game is a lunatic", but besides being a fan of the francise there is no logical or objective reason to keep paying a monthly fee for this game anymore. This MAY change with legion again but for now you get way more for much less somewhere else.

And on a sidenote.... sane people don't bother if there is a three dimensional way of transportation that is optional.

[rda]

Truth of the matter is if you would quit the game over a flying mount you are one pathetic person. But here is a fact, people who quit over a flying mount will return and blizzard know that. You gonna quit an entire expansion because you can't fly over zones? No, any sane person would stick to the game regardless. So all this speculation on sub loss due to flying mount is ludicrous. Absolutely ridiculous. Bunch of babies throwing Tantrums.

LOL.

"Truth of the matter is if you would quit the game over a flying mount you are one pathetic person." - No, not truth. There are likely many people who quit partly because of flying and for some of them it was bound to be the number 1 reason, that's just how numbers work. 'Pathetic' is just noise, I don't think quitting partly over flying is pathetic at all, for example. So, no truth in 'one', no truth in 'pathetic'.

"But here is a fact, people who quit over a flying mount will return and blizzard know that." - No, not a fact. And not just in the sense of 'you can't know', but it's just not true. Many people who quit in WoD are not going to return to the game EVER. It already happened, deal with it. Some of those quit partly because of flying, and, again, for some, no flying was likely the number 1 reason. Again, that's how numbers work.

Sum total, your 'truth' isn't truth, and your 'fact' isn't fact. The rest of the quote is useless drivel.