[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[Grizelda]

If it's going to be a problem I would just rather that they notice it now instead of later.

They have a tendency to over fix problems when they blow up like you describe.

"We nerfed Demonbolt. Also, we limited the number of imps you can have...and reduced your mastery and crit scaling."

[Gaidax]

Do not forget that no balancing pass is being done yet, this whole talk is kinda pointless, because it can be changed by merely bumping up some % here and there.

As for the cap talk, I'm not sure where it even came from, right now it already has a soft cap of sorts anyway.


That said today in Azsuna I noticed interesting thing, at some point when you get to escort prince whatshisface he joins you as the usual NPC guardian, I pressed Demonwrath (Cuz I like pressing dem battanz randomly) and for my surprise he emitted that demonwrath puddle thing too, so that makes me wonder... Maybe such quest guardians also count as extra demons for sake of spell scaling?

Unfortunately server exploded right after that (or maybe me getting disconnected), but I'm curious to try some more.


Side questions:

1. It seems Heroic Dungeons don't drop Jewels of Brilliance and Crystals of Potentiation anymore... So any other ways to level up artifact fast?

2. Blizz mentioned class hall campaign available for testing, but I don't see anything of that sort. Anyone started it?

[Esinar]

Side questions:

1. It seems Heroic Dungeons don't drop Jewels of Brilliance and Crystals of Potentiation anymore... So any other ways to level up artifact fast?

2. Blizz mentioned class hall campaign available for testing, but I don't see anything of that sort. Anyone started it?

Yeah it seems artifact power gain has been nerfed across the board. I completed all of Azsuna and then 4 dungeons and only got about 1.5k artifact power - pretty bad when my traits are costing 2k+ atm lol

As for the campaign, a blue answered some of the stuff that I had a problem with so wrote it out for someone else that asked: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20743016022#5 Hope that helps

[wooters]

I thought I was the only one dreaming up Legion raid strats that just offtanks adds for Demo locks lol.

Thinking of a fight like that Scorpion... is it a stretch by any means to say there will be people who offtank 50 of those small scorpids so classes like Demo locks can spawn 50 imps every 15 seconds and tunnel 1500% Demonbolts into the boss?

I agree that if any Cap is added, it should only be to prevent extreme cheesing like above, but not one you can ever reach during normal circumstances.

with the number of imps generated now per hog..we can`t probably get out more then 18-20 imps at any one time(number is from my ass). and to keep that number up there isn`t even time to get that many doombolts out. so I don`t see the problem really. they could perhaps put a cap on impending doom if a particular fight gets problematic

[Gaidax]

with the number of imps generated now per hog..we can`t probably get out more then 18-20 imps at any one time(number is from my ass). and to keep that number up there isn`t even time to get "any" doombolts out. so I don`t see the problem really

Impending Doom + Hand of Doom, add a lot of adds and this is possible to do cheese actually, but uncommon, of course.

[Deleted]

Anyone else just hoping demonology is the way to go? Can't say I've played it recently last time was before the 108cap its looking slightly okay which is off subject to change. Just love the sound of cheesing hand with the apply doom trait and getting a tonne of imps out then dumping DBs into a target with the dmg multiplier.

Any actual reasons why Demo couldn't be the way to go?

Of course we are still waiting for destruction but if it was between the two, aff/demo. Which would you prefer?

[Deleted]

Demo might struggle on fast target switches or spread out cleave, but overall it looks fun!

I still think Destruction will prove a better progress spec unless it gets shafted on balance.

[Fearsom1992]

Demo might struggle on fast target switches or spread out cleave, but overall it looks fun!

I still think Destruction will prove a better progress spec unless it gets shafted on balance.

I mean if the 100 left talent wasn't only on doom targets spread aoe wouldn't be bad at all, but you have to line up imp timers with add spawn times uh sounds like such a pain in the ass to use implosion xD

[Baconeggcheese]

@Exephia I'm hoping destruction is the way to go just because I've become partial to the spec over the last 2 xpacs. Which is mostly because its the spec that we always lean on when it really matters.

Pretty much what liquidsteel said tho, demo is looking like it'll struggle on target switches. Currently I still have no idea how the imps choose their target which means in any situations where there's multiple targets stacked up but you need to hit a single one of them (say like iskar) the imps could potentially just be wasting damage on random targets. Which is super shitty for priority targets, there's so many fights the spec would be fairly useless on even just this past tier because of that. I gave feedback talking about that before, hopefully they give us some kind of answer to that problem.

It doesn't look like it'd be the worst thing to play, but I'm not really sure what its supposed to bring atm that the other specs wouldn't do better assuming things are properly balanced. As things stand destruction looks like it has the strongest kit mechanically, so if they don't fuck it on numbers it still looks like the go to.

[Capsupplier]

I wonder if that's come up at Blizzard dev HQ. It gives me a chuckle. Like a dog chasing a car, Blizzards got this Demonology spec, but what is it gonna do other than sheer throughput? Damage just kind of going every which way like a Diablo 3 Witch Doctor. It works there due to mob density, and lack of necessity for priority dps. WoW requires more control.

Maybe Implosion change up. Instead of all the imps at once, it just pulls 1 imp at a time toward your current target and blows up for whatever amount of damage. IDK if it still does AoE with this change. Make it instant, no cd. When big bad priority add spawns, swap to it and hit it with a shadow/demonbolt or 2, then 1-3 implosions.

[PickleballAce]

I wonder if that's come up at Blizzard dev HQ. It gives me a chuckle. Like a dog chasing a car, Blizzards got this Demonology spec, but what is it gonna do other than sheer throughput? Damage just kind of going every which way like a Diablo 3 Witch Doctor. It works there due to mob density, and lack of necessity for priority dps. WoW requires more control.

People have apparently been begging for a zoo spec and the overall feedback for Demo's "flavor" has seemed to be overwhelmingly positive without a whole lot of concern (other than here) for exactly how functional the spec will be mechanically.

I doubt Blizz is particularly concerned. It's no secret that Guardian AI is terrible and being critical of Demo on other forums gets you shouted down by people who don't play Lock but love the Legion "flavor".

There's precious few of us who have raised questions about Demonology, just a whisper amongst the din of "LOL IMPS RIDING DREADSTALKERS BEST SPEC EVERS!!!1"

[Deleted]

Maybe Implosion change up. Instead of all the imps at once, it just pulls 1 imp at a time toward your current target and blows up for whatever amount of damage. IDK if it still does AoE with this change. Make it instant, no cd. When big bad priority add spawns, swap to it and hit it with a shadow/demonbolt or 2, then 1-3 implosions.

that would be a pretty bad idea and go against demo's whole niche, and it seems that all the specs retains their niche, and they might as well have kept the old artifact trait that caused the imp to go lemming and suicide when their duration was up. also it makes you waste a lot of gcds that you wouldnt otherwise, it would also be a pain to balance bcoz they would need to increase the dmg a lot in order for it not to be a waste of a talent and dpswise its always better to have frontloaded dmg, it would certainly not be a change that would make me use implosion ever.

[wooters]

maybe demo just should have a focus button we can hit when a priority target comes up. then every one of our spawns change target instantly. if its possible, perhaps something like this in one form or another should be added

[Deleted]

maybe demo just should have a focus button we can hit when a priority target comes up. then every one of our spawns change target instantly. if its possible, perhaps something like this in one form or another should be added

There must be some dam good reason this doesn't exist already though.

[Capsupplier]

My change actually wouldn't waste gcds at all. This is not a rotational ability, but something for quick burst on an add at the cost of DPS resources for fights that require it. It gives a button to use during movement as well. As for the niche, Warlocks do what it takes to destroy the enemy, leave caring for minions to the hunters. Historically Warlocks have sacrifed demons for power. Grimoire of sacrifice, and the old talent in the Demonology tree called Demonic Sacrifice. Furthermore we have an artifact talent literally called the expendables where our main minions gain damage when imps die. This change would actually give you a way to force the refresh of the 15% damage increase for minions instead of dropping stacks. Now I don't see a duration on wowhead for this, so idk if this drops often or not. Maybe refreshing is not an issue.

[Deleted]

when i spoke of demo's niche i meant burst aoe, not using your pets and tbh, summon beholder serves the role you're describing(with hand of doom ofc) implosion's role is to deal massive burst aoe dmg and then have you build up resources to resummon imps and cast implosion again. the beautiful thing about implosion as it is atm is that it can be used both as a burst aoe talent AND as a more sustainable type of aoe due to how fast you can get extra imps out, coz you dont need to always cast implosion with 4/8 imps out, but you can do it with just 1-3 imps out as well and still do comparable dmg to something like FnB, so it has a dual function as both burst and sustainable aoe. the change you spoke of, capsupplier, will help the sustainable aoe but will cripple burst aoe(eventho you say it will provide some quick burst on adds, when it actually has a sustainable aoe effect and not at all the effect you want it to) which has always been demo's main niche and sometimes, as was the case of all of brf, you'd want the burst aoe.

[Duckz0rs]

when i spoke of demo's niche i meant burst aoe, not using your pets and tbh, summon beholder serves the role you're describing(with hand of doom ofc) implosion's role is to deal massive burst aoe dmg and then have you build up resources to resummon imps and cast implosion again. the beautiful thing about implosion as it is atm is that it can be used both as a burst aoe talent AND as a more sustainable type of aoe due to how fast you can get extra imps out, coz you dont need to always cast implosion with 4/8 imps out, but you can do it with just 1-3 imps out as well and still do comparable dmg to something like FnB, so it has a dual function as both burst and sustainable aoe. the change you spoke of, capsupplier, will help the sustainable aoe but will cripple burst aoe(eventho you say it will provide some quick burst on adds, when it actually has a sustainable aoe effect and not at all the effect you want it to) which has always been demo's main niche and sometimes, as was the case of all of brf, you'd want the burst aoe.

I get the feeling they intend to switch the Demo and Destro AoE niches. RoF became burst AoE again, what with the shard cost, cast time and damage increase. Optionally it has Cataclysm for more burst AoE and a reworked FnB talent that only works with Incinerate for a sustained option.
Demo on the other hand only has a sustained AoE baseline (Demonwrath) and extra sustained options through Summon Beholder and Hand of Doom. That leaves Implosion and GoServ:Felguard as its only (albeit currently very strong) burst AoE options.

Pure conjecture though, in the end it'll come down to tuning of individual talents.

[Deleted]

RoF became burst AoE again, what with the shard cost, cast time and damage increase.

It does seem like that could be the intention. Minor gripe but I hope cast spells get a visual workover like melee is. I'm not too impressed by how same-y the demo warlock graphics are. So used to rof tickling/medium damage that I could use it being more graphically impressive if its meant to whallop. I know the artefact will make it spawn infernals but something base would be nice too

[Baconeggcheese]

I wouldn't call RoF burst when it takes 10 seconds (before haste) to do its damage before knowing anything about infernals.

[Elise the Seeker]

There must be some dam good reason this doesn't exist already though.

I doubt blizzard ever thought of that.