Fury Legion Discussion

[Archimtiros]

Sure, but the amount of people that play diablo 3 after a given expansion isnt subjective

Correlation does not equal causation; the number of players naturally decrease with time, even with the release of new content. The expansion significantly renewed the player base, owing to new content and changing of internal systems (which the vast majority of players have hailed as a change for the better, debates over the Auction House aside, which wasn't actually an expansion change), and Seasons keep the player base spiking at regular intervals.

ARPG's have always been this way, and it's not surprising to see drops after content has been out for awhile. It happened to D2, happens to PoE, and every other game of the genre. Regardless, this isn't the place for such a discussion.

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Having got in yesterday, I went with a level 110 to the dummies and check both Fury and Arms out. So far have only spent about 1.5 hour with it, and I most certainly dont fall into the category of theorycrafter, but I can say something about how it feels to play.

Fury felt...odd to say the least. Same ol same ol RNG on Enrage, but to add to that frustration the Enrage window now lasts 4 seconds, where you're trying to push in as much as possible. But its simply gone too fast. And you go on working towards the next window. Now, you can be against oppertunity windows or not, but in WOD the Enrage window was long enough for you to do pump all sorts of CD's and abilities, and the result of all that made it rewarding. The 4 second window is over so fast, it actually made me feel sad.

Than this bandage called Furious Slash. Oh, BT didn't crit, so no Enrage, let's spam another ability to buff BT so that it may crit. That just feels wrong on so many levels.

Now, they can fiddle around with as much talents as they want, but the real problem lies in the core of the spec. The Enrage mechanic and the abilities that are built around it are where the real problem is.

The main issue with the shorter Enrage window is that there are simply too many buttons to use in too short a time. Obviously longer enrage is always better, that's a given, but when you have 4 abilities to use and only 2 GCDs to do it in, the rotation gets muddled.

[Deleted]

The main issue with the shorter Enrage window is that there are simply too many buttons to use in too short a time. Obviously longer enrage is always better, that's a given, but when you have 4 abilities to use and only 2 GCDs to do it in, the rotation gets muddled.

My point exactly. Odyn's Fury, WB Whirlwinds. It all conflicts too much, to the point where I'd rather have a basic 6 second Enrage window.

Eventual breakpoints that'd come with it aside, that is.. /sigh

I'm also curious to see how the new scaling for secondaries is going to affect the Crit RNG and the stat's overall value. Or really just any secondary overall.

I can't get rid of the feeling that especially the new philosophy/approach in regards to those stats will lead to some insanely weird stuff for Fury across the board.

Can't specify a reason, though. Just my guts saying "This feels risky".

[Deleted]

Odyn's Fury in its current form just needs to go. It should be some kind of off GCD attack/buff, so you don´t feel like wasting an enrage GCD. Also, our AoE arsenal is big enough as it is, there is no need for another AoE cooldown without interaction.

Whirlwind issues could be solved, if it gave the same crit buff as Furius Slash. This way it would just push Furious slash out of the rotation on AoE or on Wrecking Ball proccs.

[Deleted]

The main issue with the shorter Enrage window is that there are simply too many buttons to use in too short a time. Obviously longer enrage is always better, that's a given, but when you have 4 abilities to use and only 2 GCDs to do it in, the rotation gets muddled.

Exactly. 2 GCD's, it feels frustrating to play Fury if you put your focus on the Enrage window. I reckon if Blizzard wants Fury meant to be played without the Enrage window mindset, thus just see it as an extra buff on the go, it works, but than they should also optimize the spec's performance without the Enrage buff. It would still be a point of irritation because in a raid setting people will want to min-max, thus abuse the buff.

Still doesn't take away the fact that Furious Slash feels like a bandage to fix bad game design.

Arms ofcourse is also focussed on a debuff to boost the effectiveness of your other abilities. But 1. that window lasts a lot longer 2. You have an artifact ability that also provides the debuff and 3. You have a rotational filler that has a chance to reset the ability that provides the debuff. The longer uptime is ofcourse what makes it feel better, but I dont know, somehow having a chance to reset CS feels better than buffing up BT with FS for a chance to get Enraged.

I can't get rid of the feeling that especially the new philosophy/approach in regards to those stats will lead to some insanely weird stuff for Fury across the board.

Can't specify a reason, though. Just my guts saying "This feels risky".

Exactly how I feel. It feels weird, odd, wrong playing Fury. I somewhat hated WOD Fury, but at this point I feel the live spec works a lot better than Legion's Fury.

[Coffeh]

Exactly. 2 GCD's, it feels frustrating to play Fury if you put your focus on the Enrage window.

Hang on a minute. The stunning t19 4-piece set bonus makes that 3 GCDs. Spec is now fixed!

[Deleted]

So is WW a DPS increase on ST now?

[satimy]

Correlation does not equal causation; the number of players naturally decrease with time, even with the release of new content. The expansion significantly renewed the player base, owing to new content and changing of internal systems (which the vast majority of players have hailed as a change for the better, debates over the Auction House aside, which wasn't actually an expansion change), and Seasons keep the player base spiking at regular intervals.

ARPG's have always been this way, and it's not surprising to see drops after content has been out for awhile. It happened to D2, happens to PoE, and every other game of the genre. Regardless, this isn't the place for such a discussion.

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The main issue with the shorter Enrage window is that there are simply too many buttons to use in too short a time. Obviously longer enrage is always better, that's a given, but when you have 4 abilities to use and only 2 GCDs to do it in, the rotation gets muddled.

I'm pretty sure wow spiking for a week 3 times a year is a bad business model. Do you play Diablo 3, people literally play for a week and quit because the game is so stale and they've grown tired of their opiate high from the million legendaries dropping. Do you really think 1 week content is good for this game......or gaming in general

[Jalopy]

Do the extra targets BT hits from WW cleave have a chance to proc enrage?

[Maltore]

Exactly. 2 GCD's, it feels frustrating to play Fury if you put your focus on the Enrage window. I reckon if Blizzard wants Fury meant to be played without the Enrage window mindset, thus just see it as an extra buff on the go, it works, but than they should also optimize the spec's performance without the Enrage buff. It would still be a point of irritation because in a raid setting people will want to min-max, thus abuse the buff.

Given its RNG and duration, it does seem like they want Enrage to be something that just comes and goes in the player's mind and not something to really interact with, other than using RB. But because there's a huge damage buff tied to it, the best thing to do is stack as many abilities with Enrage as possible, and this is the play style the spec will be balanced around. It seems the outcome of their design is in conflict with their goals.

I think a step in the right direction would be to decouple the damage buff from Enrage. I really wish they would give this a try, but I'm afraid it's getting too late because it would require creating a new mastery. There's lots of ways to go, but a general idea would be to make Enrage only buff your rage generation (attack speed, RB), and change the mastery to maybe just a flat damage buff to certain abilities, or perhaps tie it to rage spent in some way. This way you wouldn't have to rely on RNG to get the most out of certain abilities like Bladestorm or Odyn's Fury, and you wouldn't feel like you need to hold back (e.g. Execute) outside of Enrage.

[Jaybee9084]

Do the extra targets BT hits from WW cleave have a chance to proc enrage?

Bloodthirst crits have a 100% chance to enrage you, so if it crits you get Enraged.

[Jalopy]

Bloodthirst crits have a 100% chance to enrage you, so if it crits you get Enraged.

I was just testing it, crits on anything but the main target didn't enrage me.

[Jaybee9084]

I was just testing it, crits on anything but the main target didn't enrage me.

Oh you mean does each BT crit enrage you, as in multiple times from one Meat Cleaved Bloodthirst. Using the T17 2 piece for reference, which caused RB crits to have a chance to Enrage you (was pretty strong for meat cleaving), then this should be working correctly as the T17 bonus also did not enrage you multiple times for multiple RB crits.

[Khelon]

Without bloodthirst meatcleaving having the option to enrage you from any of the 5 different hits it will be a nightmare to aoe with this spec.

If this is the only reason http://legion.wowhead.com/item=137088/ceann-ar-girdle why every hit cannot enrage you, I'd like them to rethink what they are doing. Playing a spec that doesnt work properly without tier set or specific trinkets/legendaries is not enjoyable and they should not be designing them towards that.

Oh you mean does each BT crit enrage you, as in multiple times from one Meat Cleaved Bloodthirst. Using the T17 2 piece for reference, which caused RB crits to have a chance to Enrage you (was pretty strong for meat cleaving), then this should be working correctly as the T17 bonus also did not enrage you multiple times for multiple RB crits.

You could actually. If mainhand and offhand crit, the set would then roll the 20% chance on both of them and sometimes both of them hit. This gave you 2 raging blow charges for 1 and 20 rage. I dont know if they changed it with 6.2, but thats how it worked in brf.

[Artunias]

They could put an internal cooldown on that belt effect as well. Of course there have almost always been pretty simple options they could do for any number of things, but the new design philosophy seems to be to ship out incomplete classes that only work with Legendaries, Artfiacts, and Set Bonuses and swim in shit until such a time.

A little over dramatic, I know, but I hate the idea behind having to have certain items or set bonuses for your class to feel like it works.

[Exotath]

They could put an internal cooldown on that belt effect as well. Of course there have almost always been pretty simple options they could do for any number of things, but the new design philosophy seems to be to ship out incomplete classes that only work with Legendaries, Artfiacts, and Set Bonuses and swim in shit until such a time.

A little over dramatic, I know, but I hate the idea behind having to have certain items or set bonuses for your class to feel like it works.

I'd say with how things have been going (Tier + class trinkets) you are spot on and not being over dramatic at all.

[Deleted]

Been playing a lot of Resto Druid the past few weeks on Alpha so I've not done much as Fury...

What are these talents?

T15 seems like Endless Rage unless there's adds, can't see a time outside of Odyn in HoV where I'd use Fresh Meat
T30 Is dumb, why should I sacrifice 2 charges AND a reduced CD for Stormbolt or Shockwave??????
T45 outburst should be fucking baseline, how good is Wrecking Ball though? In all honesty I think it's fucking cool but if it does pityful damage and Avatar is just miles better it's waste in this talent row
T60 So unless there's mobility requirements it's Warpaint until progress is over? 300% heal on BT is cool, does it stack with ER? Didn't for me last night but maybe it's intended not to...
T75 This and the next row... Who the fuck designs this shit? Seriously has anyone else realized the synnergy behind Meat Grinder, Wrecking Ball, Massacre?
T90 Stop forcing us to use Furious Slash, it's a shit ability and your all cunts, fuck off.
T100 How good is the synnergy between Reckless Abandon and Frothing Berserker? Or is the rage reduction on Rampage too good? Then again if you're speccing Massacre does the reduced rage cost of Rampage seem nullified during the execute phase regardless? It's either free or not used because Execute... OR do we use Rampage because it enrages us?


Man what happened to this spec...

[Artunias]

Remember the damage bonus on Wrecking Ball procs makes it essentially as powerful as execute, but it's AoE. Avatar wins on single target especially once you factor in juggernaut executes but any kind of cleave WB should be quite strong

[frankyv]

New build INC! I think I speak for all of us when I say I have my fingers crossed for some positive class changes.

[Deleted]

Excited to find out what is being changed. I have been posting feedback regarding warriors as much as possible, ingame from the alpha. I really like warriors and the direction they are going with legion. But as always there are some concerns when things are being changed, so .. I put in my experience with the gameplay.
I hope they have listened and made some changes. Don't get me wrong, I like the gameplay, but as always there are things I miss since the removing of some abilities - and like many knows fury got more survivability than arms, even with fury taking increased damage from enrage. So hope it has some changes to survivability for arms - like enraged regen or leech

[Tyze]

I'd like Furious Slash removed and make Bloodthirst have no cooldown. And increase it's crit chance.