[Spoilers] Ebon Blade - Where are the complaints?

[Florena]

I am against the idea of raising Tirion to be a horseman because it cheapens his death at the broken shore, Nazgrim and Sally Whitemane have been dead for a while so them I am okay with raising since it will be somewhat funny to see a not so super psychotic Whitemane.

I'm just against raising Tiron on principle. He's been the main paladin in WoW, super pious and virtuous etc. It just feels wrong to make him into a DK. I don't really mind Nazgrim etc but Tirion just doesn't sit well with me.

[Deleted]

I'm just against raising Tiron on principle. He's been the main paladin in WoW, super pious and virtuous etc. It just feels wrong to make him into a DK. I don't really mind Nazgrim etc but Tirion just doesn't sit well with me.

He's an asshole and a white knight shiny guy without any depth. I'm happy that we Paladins don't have to care anymore about him and that he will never get a Place inside the Light.

[Donald Hellscream]

He's an asshole and a white knight shiny guy without any depth. I'm happy that we Paladins don't have to care anymore about him and that he will never get a Place inside the Light.

Care to elaborate on why he is an asshole?

[Roamingstorm]

He's an asshole and a white knight shiny guy without any depth. I'm happy that we Paladins don't have to care anymore about him and that he will never get a Place inside the Light.

What? Blood and Honor, the death of his son right in front of him while rescuing him which in turn made him realize sitting on his hands doing nothing isn't helping, starting the Argent Crusade, purifying the Ashbringer. I mean I could go on...Yet we don't want to call Sylvanus a character without any depth since all she's been doing is brooding and self loathing. Lastly the dude is a Paladin, of course he's going to be GOOD and "white knight", their whole order is about justice, order, and peace...

[lightofdawn]

Yeah they're not raised and enslaved to serve the Lich King, but asked to serve in death or perish.

Sadly most people barely scratch the surface when hearing of this and go apeshit.

indeed. at the very least it's another chance to defend the land that was once your home and tie up loose ends before being returned to dust. yeah it'd be weird and you'd probably smell kinda bad in undeath but fuck it

[Qprah]

Lich King (Arthas) -
-Raised dead and enslaved them against their will.
-Tormented undead he raised that retained their own mind and in many cases forced them to kill their own friends, family, etc.
-Enslaved, Imprisoned and Stole the souls of his enemies and used them to fuel his own war effort.

Sylvanas the Banshee Queen -
-Provided a home to all undead with free will, if they were willing to support her cause.
-Commited crimes against humanity and war crimes for the purpose of providing herself more bodies to raise.
-Raised dead with free will. Given the choice of joining, leaving on their own or dying again. (Arguably a false choice in Sylvanas' favor)

False Choice: Joining is the only reasonable answer anyone of sound mind can accept, because they know their previous friends and family will reject them. They are brought back, and the only choice they have aside being killed again, either directly or indirectly is to agree to serve her cause.

Lich King (Bolvar) -
-Makes an agreement with the Ebon Blade to help them. They remain of free will.
-They offer the choice to be raised and serve their cause to select individuals, free will included. (Possibly same False Choice here depending on how the scenario plays out in game.)

If in the scenario Nazgrim, Thoras, Sally and Tirion are raised and then asked if they will serve, knowing if they decline they will be forceably returned to the dirt, then it is indeed a false choice. If however they call their spirit out and ask it before they are raised, then thats entirely different.


I can see how they can be seen as similar. However unless im missing something about how the Lich King (Bolvar) acts, speaks and the methods he uses to forward his plans, I cant see it being reasonable to say he is even close to the same as the original Lich King or even Sylvanas.

[Extrakt]

Doesn't the undead curse prevent you from going to the afterlife? Like sylvanas and arthas only seeing darkness?
This is why I dislike the Ebon Blade too. Tirion has fought hard and deserves his rest. Which he is NEVER going to get now.

Reason I don't complain is because of a lot of lore directions I don't agree wth and I just let it roll by these days.

[Zaelsino]

What's there to complain about, really? The Ebon Blade getting a little darker is a good thing. At most, I'm not convinced that resurrecting Tirion in the same patch that he dies is a good thing, but the other three are interesting horsemen candidates and the very idea of the Ebon Blade, now agents of Bolvar, appropriating these Scourge secrets is great.

Sylvanas gets called evil and "Lich Queen" for raising people, so why not the Ebon Blade? Are people that biased and unwilling to see the same stuff going on with the Ebon Blade, solely because half of them are Alliance?

I imagine it's the difference in scale and intent. Darion has you raise these hardened veterans in the hope that they'll accept the burden and help save the world in undeath. Sylvanas has you raise every corpse she can get her hands on in the hope that they'll help her, personally, avoid death for another day.

[shoc]

Doesn't the undead curse prevent you from going to the afterlife? Like sylvanas and arthas only seeing darkness?
This is why I dislike the Ebon Blade too. Tirion has fought hard and deserves his rest. Which he is NEVER going to get now.

Reason I don't complain is because of a lot of lore directions I don't agree wth and I just let it roll by these days.

Tirion would have became the Lich King himself if Bolvar had not interjected.

Of all people, he would be the most likely to accept Undeath if it meant being able to save Azeroth from the Legion.

[Kallisto]

I'm just against raising Tiron on principle. He's been the main paladin in WoW, super pious and virtuous etc. It just feels wrong to make him into a DK. I don't really mind Nazgrim etc but Tirion just doesn't sit well with me.

Why? You perhaps have the most important human fighter. You need the best when it comes to the legion. Things like Pious, Virtue, Morals, niceties. You leave them at the door, in a war with the legion if you have to step on a few egg shells with live chicken fetus inside them you stamp down hard and twist your foot and you smile while doing it.

Doesn't the undead curse prevent you from going to the afterlife? Like sylvanas and arthas only seeing darkness?
This is why I dislike the Ebon Blade too. Tirion has fought hard and deserves his rest. Which he is NEVER going to get now.

Reason I don't complain is because of a lot of lore directions I don't agree wth and I just let it roll by these days.

No it doesn't and we have quests showing it doesn't. Ones that both DKs and Tirion give you show killing undead releases their souls. What Sylvanas saw might not even be real but a manipulation given to her by the Valkirs or it could be just reserved for a certain few.

[Deleted]

What? Blood and Honor, the death of his son right in front of him while rescuing him which in turn made him realize sitting on his hands doing nothing isn't helping, starting the Argent Crusade, purifying the Ashbringer. I mean I could go on...Yet we don't want to call Sylvanus a character without any depth since all she's been doing is brooding and self loathing. Lastly the dude is a Paladin, of course he's going to be GOOD and "white knight", their whole order is about justice, order, and peace...

He killed his Son. Taelans Blood is on his Hands. Even in most modern day armies, Taelan would have been executed for what he had done. Tirion killing Isilien was nothing but blind, blood thirsty vengeance.

I think he liked Eitrigg that much, because he has the same cruel nature like the Orcs.

[Koryn123]

He killed his Son. Taelans Blood is on his Hands. Even in most modern day armies, Taelan would have been executed for what he had done. Tirion killing Isilien was nothing but blind, blood thirsty vengeance.

I think he liked Eitrigg that much, because he has the same cruel nature like the Orcs.

*Scarlet Crusade sadistically slaughter everyone that's not wearing a Scarlet Crusade tabard because they're insane and think everyone except them is infected*

"That's fine."

*Tirion is understandably furious with rage over his son's murder by Isillien's hands and kills Isillien*

"That's bad."


Wut?

[Fenixhart]

The Ebon Blade are fighting for the sake of Azeroth.

Sylvanas is fighting for herself.

And Sylvanas is critisized for it becase the Lich King was her greatest enemy that she hated for raising her into undeath.

That's why people go "Lol Lich Queen" for Sylvanas: She is now a walking Billboard for the very principals she fought against.

The Ebon Blade never had such Sanctimonious presumptions.

[Zuben]

The Ebon Blade are fighting for the sake of Azeroth.

Sylvanas is fighting for herself.

And Sylvanas is critisized for it becase the Lich King was her greatest enemy that she hated for raising her into undeath.

That's why people go "Lol Lich Queen" for Sylvanas: She is now a walking Billboard for the very principals she fought against.

The Ebon Blade never had such Sanctimonious presumptions.

Sylvanas's priority is herself, but she does also fight for Azeroth by proxy of being part of the Horde. Despite her stated goal of building a bulwark around her to stay alive, we've seen her at the frontlines of battle many times, the latest being Legion's cinematic itself. Which I actually find confusing.

As for her outlook, views can change. The Forsaken in general hated their state after their will was freed from the Lich King's grasp, but given some years to cope, they seem to have made their peace with it. It's still unclear whether Sylvanas actually cares for her people or not, but there's been hints she does. I suspect we'll get the final verdict in Legion, once she's done with with the Vrykul afterlife stuff.

[Deleted]

*Scarlet Crusade sadistically slaughter everyone that's not wearing a Scarlet Crusade tabard because they're insane and think everyone except them is infected*

"That's fine."

*Tirion is understandably furious with rage over his son's murder by Isillien's hands and kills Isillien*

"That's bad."


Wut?

Taelan deserted and slaughtered his way through hearthglen.

Every army would have executed him. Stormwind, Orgrimmar, Ironforge, Darnassus, Undercity, they all would have did the same, maybe just a little less direct. His
Death served Justice.


And the Choice Sylvanas gives the people ist just like fucking someone randomly and then ask if they are cool with it.

[Leviatharan]

Sylvanas the Banshee Queen -
-Raised dead with free will. Given the choice of joining, leaving on their own or dying again. (Arguably a false choice in Sylvanas' favor)

Honestly, I find this "choice" suspect. Like, the words are in the text, but they only appear to be there to flavor Sylvanas as somewhat sympathetic. The idea of a choice is never even mentioned once you leave Deathknell.

I mean, Sylvanas sends her Valkyr to raise people directly from the Gilnean front and turns them against their own homeland (it's specifically noted she'll raise anyone who wasn't turned into a Worgen, and even then only because the Worgen curse stymies undeath); sure, some of those she raises turn against her (like Godfrey), but they're portrayed as strong-willed exceptions, not the rule. She has players actually massacre Fenris Isle and raise those slaughtered in droves, bolstering her own forces from her enemies; does that sound like a choice?

Meanwhile, we haven't seen the Ebon Blade raise anyone into their membership since they broke away from the Scourge. The Four Horsemen are probably the first who have been since the Northrend campaign.

[Jshadowhunter]

I'm baffled by lack of outcry as well. I mean Ebon Blade are literally invading Light's Hope so they can retrieve his corpse, likely because negotiations failed and who's to blame then? Any weilder of Light would find the prospect of a Light's servant being raised in undeath, even if for the greater good.

[Deleted]

Honestly, I find this "choice" suspect. Like, the words are in the text, but they only appear to be there to flavor Sylvanas as somewhat sympathetic. The idea of a choice is never even mentioned once you leave Deathknell.

I mean, Sylvanas sends her Valkyr to raise people directly from the Gilnean front and turns them against their own homeland (it's specifically noted she'll raise anyone who wasn't turned into a Worgen, and even then only because the Worgen curse stymies undeath); sure, some of those she raises turn against her (like Godfrey), but they're portrayed as strong-willed exceptions, not the rule. She has players actually massacre Fenris Isle and raise those slaughtered in droves, bolstering her own forces from her enemies; does that sound like a choice?

Meanwhile, we haven't seen the Ebon Blade raise anyone into their membership since they broke away from the Scourge. The Four Horsemen are probably the first who have been since the Northrend campaign.

Let us not forget, the Alliance has shown in Wotlk that they would accept Undeads. The Argent Crusade accepts Undeads.

[Florena]

Doesn't the undead curse prevent you from going to the afterlife? Like sylvanas and arthas only seeing darkness?
This is why I dislike the Ebon Blade too. Tirion has fought hard and deserves his rest. Which he is NEVER going to get now.

Reason I don't complain is because of a lot of lore directions I don't agree wth and I just let it roll by these days.

We have no reason to believe that applies to all undead. In the cases of Arthas and Sylvannas it could simply be that they're terrible people by whatever standards the Warcraft afterlife possesses.

[Roamingstorm]

He killed his Son. Taelans Blood is on his Hands. Even in most modern day armies, Taelan would have been executed for what he had done. Tirion killing Isilien was nothing but blind, blood thirsty vengeance.

I think he liked Eitrigg that much, because he has the same cruel nature like the Orcs.

I'm just done...Son gets killed by Isilien, blame Tirion for it because his son wanted to escape a evil and corrupt organization, and yet calling him evil for going in to avenge his son.

Just please...Get your fan fiction out of here.