Legion - Subtlety discussion

[Smaxy]

I'm not too fussed about poisons either but i guess it will all depend on healing numbers and if caster mobility stays as it is atm. Not having wound poison could potentially cripple a lot of traditional sub comps like RMP, RMD, RLS, Thug for example, if healing is too high.

The trouble being now if we think about things realistically is that we are nearly 5 months into alpha now, with a September deadline, they will more than likely be looking at moving into beta pretty soon, so the likelyhood of sweeping changes is ever more dwindling. I'm not saying give up on suggesting changes, but its looking more and more like we are only going to get results concentrating on what we have currently as that's probably what will be taken into beta, so probably the best plan of attack.

Unfortunately a lot of people crying about losing Crip don't have alpha access so they don't understand with how caster mobility is atm and our insane mobility during burst means we actually don't really need it.

Yeah, I think if they give us more snare they're also going to up other classes' mobility.. which isn't all that helpful in the grand scheme of things.

[Deleted]

I think losing poisons is somewhat good for us too. With poisons & SnD we had so many "passive" damage sources that our abilities could not hit hard and it was common complaint. Now we can have somewhat meaningful damage on abilities, I like it.

[Deleted]

I think losing poisons is somewhat good for us too. With poisons & SnD we had so many "passive" damage sources that our abilities could not hit hard and it was common complaint. Now we can have somewhat meaningful damage on abilities, I like it.

Yeah the amount of passive damage that was baked into SnD was ridiculous, especially as it scaled with mastery. It was always a massive source of frustration for me during dance down time. SoD is much better as it effects all damage and allows better coefficients to yellow damage, its just clunky in design for me, being on the GCD and being so energy starved during burst is equally frustrating.

[Naiattavain]

shadow blades is going to be the plate dps killer in pvp. kinda glad they let us kill warrior once every three minutes instead of getting insta gibbed over and over getting farmed at the graveyard in a casual battle ground. thanks for posting; i got an idea of how to be ahead of the curve already. thanks.

[Deleted]

shadow blades is going to be the plate dps killer in pvp. kinda glad they let us kill warrior once every three minutes instead of getting insta gibbed over and over getting farmed at the graveyard in a casual battle ground. thanks for posting; i got an idea of how to be ahead of the curve already. thanks.

Wtf are you on about? You just venting or is that directed at someone? As your post only makes half sense.....

[Deleted]

shadow blades is going to be the plate dps killer in pvp. kinda glad they let us kill warrior once every three minutes instead of getting insta gibbed over and over getting farmed at the graveyard in a casual battle ground. thanks for posting; i got an idea of how to be ahead of the curve already. thanks.

Shiv when your opener ends and 5-8 yard kite them, and wait for stun DR. Shits old school bruv, warriors are super easy on my Rogue, very little cds needed.

Rets are fine, just vanish cloak wings, try to CR or faint each hoj.

FDKs are was if you have a pillar, otherwise just use all cds and prep. Step each kidney so you don't parry.


ShadowBlades doesn't seem to add as much damage as it did in MoP, at least from watching streams. Stratagem with nightstalker and dfa seem to be more prominent in killing people then ShadowBlades.

I want old vanish back, let me vanish spells again

[KiwifruitOCE]

Wtf are you on about? You just venting or is that directed at someone? As your post only makes half sense.....

Have you not been introduced to thieves cant yet? This is a run of the mill sort of comment for him.

[Geckoo]

Am I the only one who doesnt care about poisons? If they give us back a slow on attack like Crippling Poison theyre going to nerf our mobility, cc, or both.

It seems obvious to me that theyre being very careful about what they give specs for PvP and Id much rather have all the mobility and stuns.

When i talk about poisons it doesn't need to be equal for all specs, i talk mostly about the kind of fantasy behind them, specially the fact that we apply different enhancements to our weapons to obtain different outcomes.

Since subtley has a bit of magic involved in his fantasy, instead of poisons we could use a curse inscribed on our blade that slows down our target for 8s if they are bleeding. So this means that rupture* + curse = nightblade.

*Yes, rupture. i can't even understand why they thought it was a good idea to add a 100% magic dot to a melee class that never had that much magic involved in their fantasy.

[Deleted]

You mean that running at 60% all the time was not balanced?

I believe you haven't seen catlike reflexes artifact trait. We can run 45% faster all times. Sure with BoS we could run 75% faster? I am happy they removed BoS, it was a game killer, especially in capture the flag games. That is why I think druids should be able to run 50% faster while carrying flag instead of 100%., which is way too powerful. Actually there is a cap for running speed when carrying a flag = 200%. But it should be broken down into 2 categories. up to 150% from passives and additional 50% from actives. oh well but that is another topic.

[Deleted]

I believe you haven't seen catlike reflexes artifact trait. We can run 45% faster all times. Sure with BoS we could run 75% faster? I am happy they removed BoS, it was a game killer, especially in capture the flag games. That is why I think druids should be able to run 50% faster while carrying flag instead of 100%., which is way too powerful. Actually there is a cap for running speed when carrying a flag = 200%. But it should be broken down into 2 categories. up to 150% from passives and additional 50% from actives. oh well but that is another topic.

catlike reflexes is just Dodge now, no longer a movement incenses. 5/10/15%. still immune to fall damage.

I agree on the flag carry speed though.

On the movement note, I greatly dislike that sprint has become a DPS cooldown, it shouldn't trigger vanish. to be frank, the movement speed itself is a DPS CD, without needing vanish. The quicker I get to the boss after switching, the sooner I can start dealing damage. To me that's a DPS cooldown, just like how I see Step as a dps CD(After it stopped giving 20% damage and less threat on your next ability), because I can instantly switch to a target, without having to run X amount of yards.

[Deleted]

catlike reflexes is just Dodge now, no longer a movement incenses. 5/10/15%. still immune to fall damage.

I agree on the flag carry speed though. On the movement note, I greatly dislike that sprint has become a DPS cooldown.

I thought it had both speed and dodge. Still, 15%extra dodge, we get 30% dodge total~. The burning crusade rogue again. Furthermore, if we can stack 3 more traits from relics we get 15% more...so dodge machine.

[Deleted]

I thought it had both speed and dodge. Still, 15%extra dodge, we get 30% dodge total~. The burning crusade rogue again. Furthermore, if we can stack 3 more traits from relics we get 15% more...so dodge machine.

We're gonna be more annoying than DK's for parrying (dodging) abilities now : )

[Deleted]

We're gonna be more annoying than DK's for parrying (dodging) abilities now : )

By the way, does Night Elf's Shadowmeld trigger energy regen (Master of Shadows)?

[Kalador]

i don't think poison are core to sub spec and I don't mind blizz removing them as poison effect can be baked into other stuff like the slow into nightblade. I do agree with the Class fantasy concern tho and i think out of all rogue spec sub is really feeling like they don't know what they want with it. Rogue were never really about magic, it was about stealth and Agility. The switch to sub rogue to be like waver of shadow is super weird and is not well implemented specialy with the artefact weapon. I don't mind them changing the fantasy so much but if you do it than do it well and not half way like it's been done.

In the end tho if the class play well i won't mind the halfdone fantasy but the probleme here is that the fantasy of the new sub is like the new spec gameplay/rotation, it feels like it has a tone of potential and that they had good idea for it but then they stop halfway making it and now we are stuck with some kind of frankenstein.

P.S Also if we are all of a sudden bender of shadow why remove shroud.... and give it to mage. (I'm super angry about losing shroud, i could understand if it was removed from the game to not be used in cm or stuff but giving it to mage enrage me)

[elfporn]

When i talk about poisons it doesn't need to be equal for all specs, i talk mostly about the kind of fantasy behind them, specially the fact that we apply different enhancements to our weapons to obtain different outcomes.

Since subtley has a bit of magic involved in his fantasy, instead of poisons we could use a curse inscribed on our blade that slows down our target for 8s if they are bleeding. So this means that rupture* + curse = nightblade.

*Yes, rupture. i can't even understand why they thought it was a good idea to add a 100% magic dot to a melee class that never had that much magic involved in their fantasy.

Adding the magic DoT(shadow damage) is part of making the spec more of a shadowguard/Gloomrogue/darkthief (shadow magic based assassin). It's an archetype that wow doesn't have yet, and easier than adding another class, just like they did for survival hunters, and tried to do with gladiator warriors.

[Deleted]

By the way, does Night Elf's Shadowmeld trigger energy regen (Master of Shadows)?

I have absolutely no idea! But you don't get energy from vanish until you press stealth, so I'd guess if you meld and hit stealth at the same time, you would get energy.

[elfporn]

i don't think poison are core to sub spec and I don't mind blizz removing them as poison effect can be baked into other stuff like the slow into nightblade. I do agree with the Class fantasy concern tho and i think out of all rogue spec sub is really feeling like they don't know what they want with it. Rogue were never really about magic, it was about stealth and Agility. The switch to sub rogue to be like waver of shadow is super weird and is not well implemented specialy with the artefact weapon. I don't mind them changing the fantasy so much but if you do it than do it well and not half way like it's been done.

In the end tho if the class play well i won't mind the halfdone fantasy but the probleme here is that the fantasy of the new sub is like the new spec gameplay/rotation, it feels like it has a tone of potential and that they had good idea for it but then they stop halfway making it and now we are stuck with some kind of frankenstein.

P.S Also if we are all of a sudden bender of shadow why remove shroud.... and give it to mage. (I'm super angry about losing shroud, i could understand if it was removed from the game to not be used in cm or stuff but giving it to mage enrage me)

I agree about shroud for sure, that was a "cool" and very much sub-flavored ability, though mages having mass-invisibility is also mage-flavored as well. Shadowy duel is the closest we've got now.

[Kalador]

I agree about shroud for sure, that was a "cool" and very much sub-flavored ability, though mages having mass-invisibility is also mage-flavored as well. Shadowy duel is the closest we've got now.

Yeah, i agree that it goes with the mage fantasy well but I hate the let's remove this form a class to give it to another one... specialy when it's clearly not about fixing class homogenisation as we were the only class with the mass stealth.

[Deleted]

I have absolutely no idea! But you don't get energy from vanish until you press stealth, so I'd guess if you meld and hit stealth at the same time, you would get energy.

We don't need to geniuses, even a blind man can see this xD
Byebye human rogues. Hello nelf rogues. I personally have a female nelf, guess I will watch her dance like Alizee between arenas. You know, to help keep the focus.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6omsDyFNlk)

[Smaxy]

Mage got shroud? Did I miss something o.o