No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Xandrigity]

"Random social encounters" (whatever the actual phrasing) in this topic is always code for "ganking lowbies who can't get away."

Yep pretty much this. If I had a dime for e erythema I heard the retarded "world pvp" argument. I would probably be able to buy blizzard.

[Mafic]

I find it depressing. So many players that could be still playing, but are now lost subs.

And the WoW dev´s reaction to that? Just as intended. We´re doing to the same for Legion.

Like I have said before. Grab the popcorn because this time around the player base isn't going to wait around for Blizz to drag their feet on when flying will be enabled. The outcry that happened was tiny compared to what will happen in Legion if they decide to straddle the fence once more. And straddling the fence for long periods of time is really painful so it is for the best they make a decision fast.

[Deleted]

I will state only my opinion. I guess that 200+ pages must contain all possible arguments for both sides. Here it is: I love my flying. I loved questing on ground and getting flying as soon as I dinged max level. In every expansion, I appreciated the landscape more from up high when flying. On ground it was all about avoiding mobs, horde gankers and landscape annoyances (slopes, lakes, ravines), while flying made me notice how the zone fits together. When flying the sum of the zone was greater to me than its parts when running on ground. Really, zones like Jade Forest, Valley of Four Winds or Dragonblight feel really different when seeing from the sky.

This is why I really disliked no-flying in WoD and now in Legion. Flying is one of the reason I was unsubbed for half of WoD and first thing after resubbing was grinding out the flying. And it was annying grind. Loremaster of Draenor? I get it. But Tanaan grinds? Farming the reps is really annoying without flying. Especially those four bosses who are dead long before you reach them on ground. This means that farming for flying is only bearable with flying, nice Catch 22. And yes, I likes Isle of Thunder even without flying, because it didn't feature such overcomplicated landscape features... As I said, lining the Flying to Loremaster achievment makes sense, but why not linking it straight to max level achievment? For most players this is the same, but it doesn't go against players with alternative levelling processes (PVP, dungeons). I hope in Legion the requirements won't be so harsh as in WoD, but I would still prefer flying at max level in 7.0. Players behind no-flying can say anything they want, but this feeling won't change. For 4 expansions I was able to earn flying on max level in X.0 and I want it to be that again.

I guess there could be some bonuses to ground mounts or minor inconveniences to flying mounts to promote ground mounts a bit more. Maybe something like tracking of herbs/ores/fish not working when flying or introducing short (5-10s) cooldown on flying mounts when dismounting one. Really, I understand tweaking something for the sake of balance, but removing some core parts of game for half of an expansion is just stupid...

[Maneo]

A few simple and honest questions for the anti flight camp.

1. WoD was your expac w/out flight, are you honestly saying the WoD is better then ANY previous expac? Personally and most people seem to agree WoD is the worst expac to date.

2. What did no flight bring beyond added tedium and annoyance? If you are an old school MMO player that refuses to evolve I guess this one could a positive change.

You see although I agree that flight isn't content, what it does do is enable content. There are so many things you could do in the open world but the tedium of getting those tasks supersedes the fun or reward from doing those tasks aka BAD GAME DESIGN

A couple ways to fix this.
1. Make the tasks so rewarding that players will do it regardless of how boring or tedious it is. Timeless Isle was a great example of this, and it works for a time but doesn't work for long.

2. Actually make the open world engaging and fun. Not just the first time you run through it but every time. This is possible but would involve some serious changes to WoW. With WoD Blizz showed us they seem intent on doing as little as possible, so this is highly unlikely

3. Create something to alieve the tedium of the open world aka flight.

[Dhrizzle]

Really all it would take is a simple statement to the effect of something like: "Guys, we know flight is a big issue for a lot of people. We just wanted to know that it will still be in Legion and that we're still working on it, but don't have anything specific to disclose at this time. We're sticking with our plan to not have it in for 7.0, but will release it in a later patch."

I know that's not much, and it wouldn't change any of the expectations from what they've already said. But it would still be better than the stonewall radio silence on the subject so far. Instead, they'd rather poke fun and irritate the community by making April Fool's jokes.

So you want Blizz to come out and say they have nothing new to say about flying? That's probably going to cause more complaints than staying silent until they have something worth saying. It'll probably be compared to a slap-in-the-face too.

Although in a completely theoretical situation, they'd set a patch for the release of flight and actually stick to it. "Guys, we're going ahead with a plan to put the unlock for flight in 7.1", then simply not release 7.1 until it's ready. They seem perfectly happy to run year long content droughts for other parts of the game, I don't see why this should be any different.

That seems silly, I'd rather they continue to play things by ear and release content when players are ready for it/when it's ready, rather than making announcements far in advance and sticking with them even if it's to the detriment of the game.

Something rational and concrete. But I'll concede this point and rephrase: How much would Blizzard have to remove from the game before your 'fun' didn't match the box price + subscription. What type of behavior would it take from Blizzard to stop you from supporting them? Do you ever even consider these concepts, or do you just buy without thinking, and keep playing until the magic 'fun' meter runs out?

If I ever buy a WoW expansion and feel I don't get my moneys worth from leveling, finishing all the quests and trying the heroic dungeons at least once I might consider missing the next expansion, or at least buying it towards the end when I can blast through all the launch and patched content in a couple of months.

Except that one of their main excuses about flight is that it "forces zones to be bigger", implying that creating larger zones is more difficult and takes more time. So apparently they DO pay by the foot.

Okay...

I'm not a geometry wizard, but I've seen posts where someone literally did the math and broke down the zone sizes, and WoD was overall smaller than previous expansion areas.

Do you mean this post, that says something very different to what you remember? http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Map-Comparison

And what about all the people who are defending because of confirmation bias? What about all the people who have an addiction problem? What about all the people who are simply too invested in the game to be objective?

You mean the people who make hundreds of posts saying that Blizzard are objectively bad and opinions to the contrary are illogical and unreasonable?

You can have fun with the game while still recognizing that Blizzard did some underhanded and unacceptable things in WoD. I can accept people saying "I had fun in WoD, so I don't care what Blizzard did.", but what I can't accept are the people who are saying "I had fun in WoD, so Blizzard didn't do anything wrong."

Do you see the difference? Does that make sense?

I don't see any of it as being underhand. I though MoP had some god-awful dungeons and too many daily quests needed to get gear from them. It doesn't mean I think Blizz were being "underhanded," or "devious" trying to pad out the limited content so they could be "lazy." I figured they were either aiming for a different group of players or they tried something that didn't quite pan out. I still got my money's worth from the leveling experience which is why I bought WoD. I certainly didn't stick around on fan-sites trying to convince people who disagreed with me that they were somehow deluded or only thought they enjoyed it because of their addiction.

[Faylum1]

Sorry ,but that's only YOUR opinion, not a fact. Any same person stops paying for a product they no longer like, FOR WHAT EVER REASON.
Sane people are not sticking to this game. Mostly fans of Blizzards warcraft universe do. Sane people see other products offer way more for less money. I don't say "anyone still playing this game is a lunatic", but besides being a fan of the francise there is no logical or objective reason to keep paying a monthly fee for this game anymore. This MAY change with legion again but for now you get way more for much less somewhere else.

And on a sidenote.... sane people don't bother if there is a three dimensional way of transportation that is optional.

Are you really going to break down sarcasm like that to 'defends' your argument? Ofc people quit games for whatever reason they choose. Captain Obvious emerges from the deep underbelly to smite his righteous common sense upon their brows...

I cannot believe that there are people here who legitimately state they play world of warcraft to... (loool) 'Fly around Azeroth'. That is just so unbelievably funny. You can't even argue a single point, you are just stating what was obvious in the beginning and then attempting to add your 50 pence about fanbois.

The world of warcraft fanboi elite, the people who support this game and love this game, who get involved in this game, do not quit the franchise over not having a flying mount. Oh they will cry about it and make statements about leaving as a means to 'threaten' blizzard but what would these, fanatics do if they quit the only game they love?

Again stop talking out of your brown stained panties. I refuse to believe that anyone bitching about flying mounts will quit the franchise over being delayed their flying mount. And again i say, any sane person, who is not mentally disturbed or unwell would agree with that. Blizzard lost 95% of its PvP player base due to the disgrace that WoD has become, did they act on changing anything for the Millions who left? No...

LMFAO, the idea of someone who just plays wow to fly around azeroth makes me smile to no end. Blizzard is killing an aspect of the game for these people, who will have to use flight masters and pay a fortune to stay up in the sky all day. LoOOoooL

[Bun-Bun]

Are you really going to break down sarcasm like that to 'defends' your argument? Ofc people quit games for whatever reason they choose. Captain Obvious emerges from the deep underbelly to smite his righteous common sense upon their brows...

I cannot believe that there are people here who legitimately state they play world of warcraft to... (loool) 'Fly around Azeroth'. That is just so unbelievably funny. You can't even argue a single point, you are just stating what was obvious in the beginning and then attempting to add your 50 pence about fanbois.

The world of warcraft fanboi elite, the people who support this game and love this game, who get involved in this game, do not quit the franchise over not having a flying mount. Oh they will cry about it and make statements about leaving as a means to 'threaten' blizzard but what would these, fanatics do if they quit the only game they love?

Again stop talking out of your brown stained panties. I refuse to believe that anyone bitching about flying mounts will quit the franchise over being delayed their flying mount. And again i say, any sane person, who is not mentally disturbed or unwell would agree with that. Blizzard lost 95% of its PvP player base due to the disgrace that WoD has become, did they act on changing anything for the Millions who left? No...

LMFAO, the idea of someone who just plays wow to fly around azeroth makes me smile to no end. Blizzard is killing an aspect of the game for these people, who will have to use flight masters and pay a fortune to stay up in the sky all day. LoOOoooL

When they announced no flight ever, I cancelled my sub.

Few months later when it was back, I resubbed.

I am going to cancel my sub soon again since they are pulling the same shit with Legion, I probably wont come back.

Its more than just no flight. Its how blizz is handling the situation. If we, the customers, were able to make informed buying decisions there would be no issue.

[SirCowdog]

So you want Blizz to come out and say they have nothing new to say about flying? That's probably going to cause more complaints than staying silent until they have something worth saying. It'll probably be compared to a slap-in-the-face too.

That seems silly, I'd rather they continue to play things by ear and release content when players are ready for it/when it's ready, rather than making announcements far in advance and sticking with them even if it's to the detriment of the game.

They seem perfectly ok with posting all manner of unfinished content everywhere else, for every other part of the game. And yes, I do want them to at least re-confirm they're putting flight in the expansion so they don't pull another WoD and decide to remove it entirely after a bunch of sales have happened. I want them to keep saying it until it's in the expansion again.

It isn't silly at all when you take into consideration their actions leading up to WoD.

If I ever buy a WoW expansion and feel I don't get my moneys worth from leveling, finishing all the quests and trying the heroic dungeons at least once I might consider missing the next expansion, or at least buying it towards the end when I can blast through all the launch and patched content in a couple of months.

This is basically where people who want flying are at. WoD took out a great deal of what was fun from the game without replacing it with anything of value. And so many of the arguments put forward by anti-flight people amount to "I don't care about flying so it must be fine." I've been trying, since the first rumors that Blizzard was going to try it, to get people to recognize that for a LOT of people it's not fine. It sucks that it took Blizzard an entire expansion to recognize that it was a bad idea, and is still sticking to the idea of pushing it back as far as possible into Legion.

Do you mean this post, that says something very different to what you remember? http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Map-Comparison

The one I saw was on reddit, which I now can't find(probably because it was wrong). But that's an interesting post. I'm willing to admit that I might have had bad info on this point. However, it doesn't change the fact that there are less dungeons and less raid bosses in WoD, as well as no new race, class, or profession. What we got instead was a selfie patch, and garrison facebook gameplay.

You mean the people who make hundreds of posts saying that Blizzard are objectively bad and opinions to the contrary are illogical and unreasonable?

No, I mean exactly what I said. Using 'fun' as a metric when talking about business practices of a game company probably isn't the best idea, because it's far too subjective. There are too many factors which can change people's perceptions, not all of them good.

I don't see any of it as being underhand. I though MoP had some god-awful dungeons and too many daily quests needed to get gear from them. It doesn't mean I think Blizz were being "underhanded," or "devious" trying to pad out the limited content so they could be "lazy." I figured they were either aiming for a different group of players or they tried something that didn't quite pan out. I still got my money's worth from the leveling experience which is why I bought WoD. I certainly didn't stick around on fan-sites trying to convince people who disagreed with me that they were somehow deluded or only thought they enjoyed it because of their addiction.

My points have been that it was a coldly calculated decision to stretch content as much as possible. Blizzard isn't being lazy, they're just putting profits ahead of good gameplay and a better product. When I talk about them being under-handed, I'm referring to the massive hype and advertising campaign for WoD which was followed by a sub-par expansion that only BARELY fulfilled the thinnest technical definitions of what they claimed it would be.

I've also said on several occasions that I hope Legion will actually live up to their claims this time. Hopefully all the garbage we've seen from WoD, and all the excuses actually WERE because Blizzard was pouring everything into Legion. I still think it's a shitty thing to do, to sacrifice one expansion to make the next one better, but we'll see if it all pays off. Judging from what I've seen so far from the alpha, it's not going to measure up. But there's still time before september.

[clevin]

Not using the flying mounts puts you at a competitive disadvantage and this change also reflects on their decision making process, which is where I agree to previous posters to some extent, but for the opposite reason: I am unhappy that they broke their vision of the game by caving in to a vocal minority of whiners.

I know! I mean for 8 years we had flight and then because of some whiny people who kept saying it hurt the game they have started dicking with it. Annoying, isn't it?

early in beta they should simply tell people in no uncertain terms when flight will be available. They won't because they want to pull the same shit they did in WoD... last patch, when it's irrelevant and saying that would cause some people not buy Legion. But to me, I want to know what I'm buying and if they want to be shady and not tell me, well... I'll wait until I know.

[Maneo]

I know! I mean for 8 years we had flight and then because of some whiny people who kept saying it hurt the game they have started dicking with it. Annoying, isn't it?

early in beta they should simply tell people in no uncertain terms when flight will be available. They won't because they want to pull the same shit they did in WoD... last patch, when it's irrelevant and saying that would cause some people not buy Legion. But to me, I want to know what I'm buying and if they want to be shady and not tell me, well... I'll wait until I know.

Ya unless we get a definite "Flight will be enabled on the first content patch", I won't be buying Legion.

I then have to figure out what to do w/my 3 Battlenet gift cards I got for Christmas, my friend gave me. They came w/a note saying see you in Legion, however it is looking unlikely that will be the case. Would buy another game but unfortunately I am not really a fan of Blizzards other games <shrug>

Honestly I am to old to bother getting into another MMO. I am 40 years old and invested over 480 days into my account, I just can't bother doing that again. I honestly wish I could sell my account .. cause that is 480 wasted days.

[SirCowdog]

that is 480 wasted days.

Not wasted if you had fun while doing it. This is the kind of logic that always bothers me when people talk about MMOs, and one of the insidious reasons why people continue to support a game after it's gone bad. Too many people think they HAVE to keep playing in order to validate the time they've already spent. Or if they stop playing all the time they've invested already is wasted, or wrong somehow.

There's nothing wrong with playing a game until it stops being fun, as long as you don't perceive that fun as an investment or guarantee of future fun. Also, as long as you can separate the fun you're having from your principles as a responsible consumer.

[Connll]

Not wasted if you had fun while doing it. This is the kind of logic that always bothers me when people talk about MMOs, and one of the insidious reasons why people continue to support a game after it's gone bad. Too many people think they HAVE to keep playing in order to validate the time they've already spent. Or if they stop playing all the time they've invested already is wasted, or wrong somehow.

There's nothing wrong with playing a game until it stops being fun, as long as you don't perceive that fun as an investment or guarantee of future fun. Also, as long as you can separate the fun you're having from your principles as a responsible consumer.

Well said. I have just one thing to add.

In my particular case, WoD stopped being fun about 2 months before I actually unsubscribed (give or take 2 weeks). I do consider those 2 months wasted, in the sense that I should not have remained subscribed for a game that I was logging once a WEEK, tops, forcing myself to collect some garrison resources.

Perhaps this is what Maneo is mentioning.

[Mafic]

i like flying dammm why blizz why

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...2634621?page=4

This thread was started on March 1st, 2016. It has one of the highest view counts for a non stickied post on the alpha general forums. Lets just say that things are starting to heat up.

[Aestin]

Personally, I liked how Blizz handled the mount issue in WoD, aside from having to do the achi (blergh). Definitely makes the world feel larger, if one ever leaves their garrison these days.

[des1235]

" I refuse to believe that anyone bitching about flying mounts will quit the franchise over being delayed their flying mount."

I did cancel my sub in WoD for some months until they put flying back in. I plan not to play Legion until Flight is available in game (if it's behind a wall that's okay as long as there's something I can achieve in game that would unlock flight for me without any extra content patch).

[MoanaLisa]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...2634621?page=4

This thread was started on March 1st, 2016. It has one of the highest view counts for a non stickied post on the alpha general forums. Lets just say that things are starting to heat up.

Perhaps. It's about seven times less interesting than Secondary Stat Scaling in Legion which was started at about the same time. Doesn't exactly sound like it's on fire or anything. Neither is this thread really where a full 25% of the posts are from six users. Now, if Blizzard comes out at last and says that Pathfinder has been cancelled or something that will be different but for now it's objectively difficult to make the case that this is some on-fire topic. It's not.

Like everyone who has an interest I hope Blizzard gives up some info relatively soon and provides some clarity. But for now, it seems that people are way more interested in how secondary stats scale than flying.

EDIT: Best guess is that we'll find out more when they reveal the details on non-instanced end game: professions, achievements, reputation grinds, adventure mode, and all of the things we're supposed to be doing at 110 that doesn't involve being in a dungeon or raid. Really, none of that has been laid out in any detail yet.

[garethrogue]

I don't care much about flying. The only reason I'll play Legion is because back in Vanilla I joked about getting wrecked in pvp by Paladins in Tier 20 gear, and now I have a chance for that to actually be a thing.

[Mafic]

Perhaps. It's about seven times less interesting than Secondary Stat Scaling in Legion which was started at about the same time. Doesn't exactly sound like it's on fire or anything. Neither is this thread really where a full 25% of the posts are from six users. Now, if Blizzard comes out at last and says that Pathfinder has been cancelled or something that will be different but for now it's objectively difficult to make the case that this is some on-fire topic. It's not.

Like everyone who has an interest I hope Blizzard gives up some info relatively soon and provides some clarity. But for now, it seems that people are way more interested in how secondary stats scale than flying.

EDIT: Best guess is that we'll find out more when they reveal the details on non-instanced end game: professions, achievements, reputation grinds, adventure mode, and all of the things we're supposed to be doing at 110 that doesn't involve being in a dungeon or raid. Really, none of that has been laid out in any detail yet.

There are not anymore details of non instanced endgame, because what you see is what you get IMVHO.

Also the secondary stat scaling is a stickied thread with a blue response. You are correct if a blue would respond that the thread would blow up. As for this thread, that will change fairly quickly once beta is released. Same thing happened with the other thread where it ended up being a few and ended up a tidal wave of outcry which definitely spilled over on the official forums.

Between no flying and pruning the player base is prepared for a pre-emptive strike this time around. Blizz better have their flame proof suits on standby haha.

[Deleted]

Are you really going to break down sarcasm like that to 'defends' your argument? Ofc people quit games for whatever reason they choose. Captain Obvious emerges from the deep underbelly to smite his righteous common sense upon their brows...

with all that nonsense you wrote down there is no other way than answering with sarcasm.
There haven't been only 200 or 300 people complaining about the lack of flying. It is proven that the discussion around flight has been second of the most attended topics, right after "real ID debacle". And only a handful of people arguing AGAINST flight. Of course people quit for numerous reasons.... strange that the BIGGEST DROP in history happened right after Blizzard announced that there will be no flight in WOD and any other future expansion. And right after that huge drop Blizz announced that flight will be coming back.... two weeks after. So it is pretty save to say that there had been MANY more than your "200 to 300 people" that claimed the lack of flight being responsible for them to cancel their sub (not necessarily number one reason).

I cannot believe that there are people here who legitimately state they play world of warcraft to... (loool) 'Fly around Azeroth'. That is just so unbelievably funny. You can't even argue a single point, you are just stating what was obvious in the beginning and then attempting to add your 50 pence about fanbois.

So it is other peoples fault that you are limited in your imagination? Or limitited in understanding, that different people enjoy different things?
I can't believe that people still reduce everything down to one thing. If everything in the game is bad and flight would make it at least bearable but it is not in the game that could be a reason to quit too. Stop acting borderline stupid by saying "people play wow to fly in Azeroth". I don't think you are that stupid that you miss out basic understanding.

The world of warcraft fanboi elite, the people who support this game and love this game, who get involved in this game, do not quit the franchise over not having a flying mount. Oh they will cry about it and make statements about leaving as a means to 'threaten' blizzard but what would these, fanatics do if they quit the only game they love?

The "fanboi elite" is just a very small crowd, probably not even half a million people. Even the crowd that thinks "the game is bad and boring, but i like to play with my dear friends i have found here" is bigger than the "fanboi elite" crowed. You do know there is a huge difference between, being a fan and being an fanboi, do you? Or do i have to explain that to you?

Again stop talking out of your brown stained panties. I refuse to believe that anyone bitching about flying mounts will quit the franchise over being delayed their flying mount. And again i say, any sane person, who is not mentally disturbed or unwell would agree with that. Blizzard lost 95% of its PvP player base due to the disgrace that WoD has become, did they act on changing anything for the Millions who left? No...

Oh wow..... so many worng informations in so little words. You know that WoW has lost over 95% of ALL THEIR PLAYERS, even IF the game would had more than 5 million today? Here is a hint: google "World of warcraft created accounts" and compare the number to the last account count we've got after you made some calculations about how this number you have googled might have evolved since it was revealed. Another hint: the number you'll get is revealed April 2014 and has been from December 2013. Hint three: "accounts crwated can only rise, not decline.

Don't be talking about "brown stained panties" if you are not even mature enough to only discuss when you know FACTS instead of your wet daydream fantasies, kid.

LMFAO, the idea of someone who just plays wow to fly around azeroth makes me smile to no end. Blizzard is killing an aspect of the game for these people, who will have to use flight masters and pay a fortune to stay up in the sky all day. LoOOoooL

The last sentence shows it best: you have no clue at all what you are talking about and what this whole discussion is all about. So my question is: why you even try to discuss if you are obviously unable to understand the very basic things of the matter? Kids love to lol much these days about things they don't understand these days i guess.

[Leih]

Sane people see other products offer way more for less money. I don't say "anyone still playing this game is a lunatic", but besides being a fan of the francise there is no logical or objective reason to keep paying a monthly fee for this game anymore. This MAY change with legion again but for now you get way more for much less somewhere else.

Serious question... which products are these?

Not that I seek to agree or disagree with the argument as a whole, but other than WoW and Final Fantasy (the former with content drought and the latter which is sooooo slow I can go make a coffee between GCDs) what is there? Unfortunately the MMO scene for PVE folks in general is pretty dead right now :/

I think it's a little presumptuous to say you're not "sane" for playing WoW when there's hardly an alternative for someone who likes endgame PVE raiding gameplay.