[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[Gnarilex]

I doubt blizzard ever thought of that.

Maybe they thought the timers were so short switching wouldn't be a huge issue?

[Elise the Seeker]

Maybe they thought the timers were so short switching wouldn't be a huge issue?

You're right, but now we have two specs who would greatly depend on it.

[Baconeggcheese]

I doubt blizzard ever thought of that.

I'd be amazed if they didn't, and even if they didn't I know at the very least I gave feedback within the last few builds stressing how huge having such a button would be to the spec. I imagine other people likely have as well.

[Deleted]

I'd be amazed if they didn't, and even if they didn't I know at the very least I gave feedback within the last few builds stressing how huge having such a button would be to the spec. I imagine other people likely have as well.

this is blizz we're talking about, they do stuff that amaze us positively or negatively all the damn time, blizz never having thought of such a button isnt exactly a stretch, after all the sac/ruin spec of tbc was something they missed by their own admittance.

[Gaidax]

Yes, because Blizzard devs are so retarded that they ended up implementing a well done spec based on spamming guardians and never ever considered adding that button there?

You can at least give them some benefit of the doubt really, you make it sound as if there is just some bunch of monkeys randomly hitting keyboards in Blizz HQ there.

I am pretty confident it was considered and due to valid reasons it was not implemented, that's it - end of story.

[Baconeggcheese]

this is blizz we're talking about, they do stuff that amaze us positively or negatively all the damn time, blizz never having thought of such a button isnt exactly a stretch, after all the sac/ruin spec of tbc was something they missed by their own admittance.

Bit different, but again the information has already been relayed to them weeks ago.

So its not so much a matter of whether or not they thought of it, but its a matter of whether or not they agree with it or want the game play to be a certain way. Remember part of the point of the pruning / overhauling of specs is to get back the identity and strengths / weaknesses that have been getting crutched by adding more and more abilities.

That area is something they can use to give demo a weakness that separates it from other specs, and they may want it that way.

[Jessicka]

this is blizz we're talking about, they do stuff that amaze us positively or negatively all the damn time, blizz never having thought of such a button isnt exactly a stretch, after all the sac/ruin spec of tbc was something they missed by their own admittance.

Of course it's a stretch. I've seen feedback that suggests that the active talents that add buttons are making it clunky with too many keybinds; to think that they'd add yet another bind where the obsession is with cutting binds predominates is a stretch. Especially if this button only did that. We've been asking for an improvement to /petattack for some years now, since Cataclysm gave us the Doomguard/Infernal guardians to begin with; the Wild Imps in MoP only made those calls louder - it's not a new problem, so it clearly isn't what they think is the "right" solution, and that very probably they don't even regard it as a problem that needs solving.

If they were to add something, it'd probably a damaging attack, but they tried this with tracking Doom in Cataclysm and it was an abject failure. So much so, frankly I'm surprised that even in these builds they seem to be persisting with it as a requirement for the Beholder targetting.

[Gnarilex]

I'd rather have the Inquisitor/Beholder attack everything in a X radius from where it's summoned (could be manually placed). Not a big fan of Doom in general.

[Deleted]

We've been asking for an improvement to /petattack for some years now, since Cataclysm gave us the Doomguard/Infernal guardians to begin with; the Wild Imps in MoP only made those calls louder - it's not a new problem, so it clearly isn't what they think is the "right" solution, and that very probably they don't even regard it as a problem that needs solving.

how do you know what they think is the right or wrong solution? for all we know, they might be hindered by an archaic game engine that doesnt allow them to make the changes to the pet ai that we as players wants or needs.

ideally, they will make the pet ai "smarter" so we dont need the extra button and im fairly sure that ive seen the devs stating that they are looking into that, ofc i might be mistaking, wishful thinking or was stated in mop. all they really need to do, is make the pets react when you switch target and start to channel a spell instead of after you've finished channeling a spell, i think that would fix a lot.

[Elise the Seeker]

I'm still hoping the beholder gets removed...

- - - Updated - - -

I'd rather have the Inquisitor/Beholder attack everything in a X radius from where it's summoned (could be manually placed). Not a big fan of Doom in general.

I agree, why can't we have doom spread when it ticks.

[Kvlt]

I'd rather have the Inquisitor/Beholder attack everything in a X radius from where it's summoned (could be manually placed). Not a big fan of Doom in general.

It would be like making phantom singularity accessible to demo.

[Gnarilex]

It would be like making phantom singularity accessible to demo.

Or you know, every other AoE spell that does damage to all enemies in an area. This one would just have a demon in the center of it.

[Deleted]

Probably just the fact that they didn't do a balance pass yet, or that I didn't level my artifact much beyond 4 points on alpha, but last night during raidtesting the damage output of my demolock seemed really low on Spellblade Aluriel or whatever her name was. Even when trying different talents, Implosion, HoD + Beholder, to cheese the AoE damage my damage output was still among the lowest in the raid.

Also being a demon summoning spec seems to cause a lot of issues on fights where there is a lot of quick reaction movement necessary, really fucks you over badly as a demolock when you don't have time to summon your dreadstalkers or HoG because you need to run out of something fast. Also makes the playstyle turn heavily into staring very closely at your UI to keep an optimal rotation with the shards or procs you're generating.

Seems to me the spec needs a lot of work still, playing without Soul Conduit talented feels like a huge hassle / clunky to manage your shards and demons, and ultimately your "spell rotation" which feels pretty complex (but we're used to that as warlocks compared to other classes) while you're also trying to focus on the raid encounter.

Do you have any logs at all? (would be interesting to see )
I didnt really try much different talents due to the constant DCs and shite MS.

http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#EfVm
That is the build i went with and it went very well and i can guarantee i was not playing well :P
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1871&wipes=1

[Soulzar]

Probably just the fact that they didn't do a balance pass yet, or that I didn't level my artifact much beyond 4 points on alpha, but last night during raidtesting the damage output of my demolock seemed really low on Spellblade Aluriel or whatever her name was. Even when trying different talents, Implosion, HoD + Beholder, to cheese the AoE damage my damage output was still among the lowest in the raid.

Supremacy worked well for me on that fight. Started off with Doomguard, swapped to infernal for the Adds. Worked well, would be nice if the GoSup lowered summon time down from the stands 2.5s but I guess in a way pet twisting steps on the toes of Service...

Infernal is still crushing Beholder for AoE. I really dislike the beholder talent shard cost. Totally makes it feel like a clunker to mix into the rotation. I've stayed away from Service for the same reason.

The Eye beam looks cool on training dummies... but whenin an actual fight I had no fuckign idea if he was even hitting anything because I had no visual indicator.

[Drakile]

How is Demo's mobility looking currently?

[Deleted]

Infernal is still crushing Beholder for AoE. I really dislike the beholder talent shard cost. Totally makes it feel like a clunker to mix into the rotation. I've stayed away from Service for the same reason.

well that isnt surprising tho, you are comparing a 2 min cd with a 24 sec cd, i would have been extremely surprised if infernal wasnt better than the beholder.

[Capsupplier]

A well placed infernal should wreck. Otherwise it's just a dead button like it has been.

Clunky is poor feedback. What does it even mean? Is the rotation bad, and if so where? Are people just failing to manage resources correctly? I can't figure it out. What makes anyone think a dev is going to understand the issue either?

[Soulzar]

well that isnt surprising tho, you are comparing a 2 min cd with a 24 sec cd, i would have been extremely surprised if infernal wasnt better than the beholder.

Not the 3 min CD. I used Servitude(Supremacy) and switch between the Doomguard during the Single target part of the fight, and Infernal for the AoE portion.
Infernal was top dmg source and Doomguard was my 3rd dmg source.

Clunky is poor feedback. What does it even mean? Is the rotation bad, and if so where? Are people just failing to manage resources correctly? I can't figure it out. What makes anyone think a dev is going to understand the issue either?

I wasn't exactly posting Dev feedback, but I'll slap myself for use of a buzzword. The shard cost feels like it takes away from the rotation to use those CDs rather than add to it. After I apply AoE dooms with Hand of Guldan, I have zero shards to summon Beholder and must generate a shard before I can summon the beholder that pairs with the HoG Dooms. This does not feel fluid. You should be able to apply dooms and immediately pop the beholder if they are going to keep that synergy, but you would require 5 shards banked for that.

I posted in the Feedback thread the idea of just having HoG baseline as it is on live, and make Summon Imps its own spell as the spender. I don't like that our Shard spender is tied to Hand Of Doom, since using HoG to apply dooms in a timely fashion on new targets does not often align with your rhythmic use of HoG. one aspect of the spec I am still getting used to.

[Soulzar]

IMO Demo is fine for periodic movement. Lifetap, Doom, Shadowflame, Demonwrath let you move without too much waste, especially planned movement. Its constant stutter stepping out of ground effects and mechanics that interrupt casting like knockbacks that really slow the spec down.

[Gnarilex]

Least mobile ranged spec in the game, imo, because of the explanation I gave in my previous post.

Shadow Priests would like to have a word with you..