[Pre-Beta] Havoc Discussion

[High Marshal Sigismund]

What do you think the chances of them caving and giving us Felblade baseline are?

[AngryCoco]

I posted that at 4AM this morning.

I was so tired I just copied the name of the last one and forgot to fix it xD

I shall accept thou reason, for I am a benevolent typo God.

OT: So how is Havoc right now? Anything you feel should change in skills and/or talents?

[Deleted]

What do you think the chances of them caving and giving us Felblade baseline are?

That would be very cool, but i doubt they make it baseline for Havoc and leave it as a talent for Vengeance.

It would mean they needed to invent 2 talents for 2 specs, i don't know if the devs will do it.

[Raiju]

OT: So how is Havoc right now? Anything you feel should change in skills and/or talents?

The spec *feels* fantastic, outside of self healing (which as I understand it will be more manageable at 100) you generally have an answer for most things you encounter in the world. You have a lot of strong cleave mechanics for general dungeon pulls, too.

I dislike the talents focused on rush/retreat, personally - as well as shadow blades. It's pretty much a trap if you take it immediately & can't generate at a good speed, at least before felblade.

In fact I'd say generally the talents are a bit awkward. It feels like they're trying to appeal to a lot ofdifferent people but inevitably means you take talents that you may not like that much for your build.

[ruga]

Hey guys, first time posting in the DH forum - so be lenient.
Is it just me or do we feel "weak" when coming out of our DH starting experience?
Especially the first two levels seem "brutal". Now I'm not sure if this was just me getting used to how the class plays, but the second mini boss in our Artifact Scenario killed me every time I gave it a try. Him alone was ok to manage, but as soon as he summoned two fel guards they just raped me - and that's with Blur active. I just put it up to being undergeared and "bad" at what I do so I soldiered on but found out that the first Zone I chose - Stormheim - was just as unforgiving. I felt "weak" - taking 2-3 full ability rotations to kill some random enemy. This continues for 101 all the way to 102. But as soon as I hit 102 I got "stronger" and just started killing things way faster than before. Now at 108 I kill mobs with relative ease. I'm still not sure if this was some scaling issue or simply me being bad at what I did. Any ideas?

I took my WW monk as baseline - had no where near the "issues" I had with my DH.

[Deleted]

That would be very cool, but i doubt they make it baseline for Havoc and leave it as a talent for Vengeance.

It would mean they needed to invent 2 talents for 2 specs, i don't know if the devs will do it.

I'd like to see them make it baseline for both and then replace the current talent with something that enhances it, maybe something based Illidan's HOTS Hunt ability, for Havok it could increase the range and make it a jump to a target, for Vengeance give the ability an AOE connected to the strike that produces high threat. Exact range and damage would have to be tested, but that would seem a solution to the abiliy/talent problem while keeping in theme with things we've seen Demon Hunters do.

[Raiju]

Yes, havoc was very squishy at first - the artifact quest in particular was an outlier to the quest mobs after, but even the quest mobs hurt.

I got used to the rhythm later on, but I spent massive amounts of time <20% health just relying on the next soul fragment to keep me up.

Multipulling at the start of the zone was a nogo- no more than 2 or no more than 3 with multiple short cd's. The combatants I felt were some of the worst in stormheim.

No idea if it's a stormheim specific issue. Will be levelling another DH (vengeance) once it's fixed talent switching, but I should get a feel for the damage intake even as a tank.

A lot of issues come from talent positioning. Lack of self healing is massive at low level, but gets better using meta (lol) as a burst/recovery tool to cap yourself back up and remain there for 30 seconds.

[ruga]

ok, good so it's not just me.
Overall I like how DH "feels" currently. Still not a fan of the whole retreat/rush improvement talents (very dangerous in raids currently I'd say) though. But still a lot can and will happen until this hits live.

[Baelroc]

Yes, havoc was very squishy at first - the artifact quest in particular was an outlier to the quest mobs after, but even the quest mobs hurt.

I got used to the rhythm later on, but I spent massive amounts of time <20% health just relying on the next soul fragment to keep me up.

Multipulling at the start of the zone was a nogo- no more than 2 or no more than 3 with multiple short cd's. The combatants I felt were some of the worst in stormheim.

No idea if it's a stormheim specific issue. Will be levelling another DH (vengeance) once it's fixed talent switching, but I should get a feel for the damage intake even as a tank.

A lot of issues come from talent positioning. Lack of self healing is massive at low level, but gets better using meta (lol) as a burst/recovery tool to cap yourself back up and remain there for 30 seconds.

Yes. Moving Demonic to the 110 row hurts really bad. :-(

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Demonic build will probably be the go-to solo/old raids spec if the talents stay as is.

[Keltas]

Reading the havoc discussion on the alpha forums I don't see anyone mentioning how MOTG should be baseline and not a talent.

Anyone with alpha access, think you could throw that bit of feedback in there? I really think it would be a good change. It would free up a basically useless talent, give us a baseline slow, give us some more throw glaive charges for pulling/aoe/whateves, and allow us to have a new and likely better talent.

[Deleted]

Even for raids tbh

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Reading the havoc discussion on the alpha forums I don't see anyone mentioning how MOTG should be baseline and not a talent.

Anyone with alpha access, think you could throw that bit of feedback in there? I really think it would be a good change. It would free up a basically useless talent, give us a baseline slow, give us some more throw glaive charges for pulling/aoe/whateves, and allow us to have a new and likely better talent.

WTB talent that let's you throw both glaives (at the same time!) for some sexy damage and synergy for Bloodlet maybe.

[Xenyatta]

Hey guys, first time posting in the DH forum - so be lenient.
Is it just me or do we feel "weak" when coming out of our DH starting experience?
Especially the first two levels seem "brutal". Now I'm not sure if this was just me getting used to how the class plays, but the second mini boss in our Artifact Scenario killed me every time I gave it a try. Him alone was ok to manage, but as soon as he summoned two fel guards they just raped me - and that's with Blur active. I just put it up to being undergeared and "bad" at what I do so I soldiered on but found out that the first Zone I chose - Stormheim - was just as unforgiving. I felt "weak" - taking 2-3 full ability rotations to kill some random enemy. This continues for 101 all the way to 102. But as soon as I hit 102 I got "stronger" and just started killing things way faster than before. Now at 108 I kill mobs with relative ease. I'm still not sure if this was some scaling issue or simply me being bad at what I did. Any ideas?

I took my WW monk as baseline - had no where near the "issues" I had with my DH.

See for me, the only thing I tested in the world was DHers and so I don't have a baseline of what other classes play like at 100. I had no real problem with the Havoc artifact weapon quest. I chose gear with a lot of mastery and crit on it and seemed relatively go with the flow. Vengeance on the other hand, I died 4 times just trying to complete the first part of the weapon questline. It was brutal.

[Vanyali]

First Boss Logs:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Second Boss Logs:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e-done&fight=9

[Raiju]

See for me, the only thing I tested in the world was DHers and so I don't have a baseline of what other classes play like at 100. I had no real problem with the Havoc artifact weapon quest. I chose gear with a lot of mastery and crit on it and seemed relatively go with the flow. Vengeance on the other hand, I died 4 times just trying to complete the first part of the weapon questline. It was brutal.

You chose gear? You don't get any gear choices except your flat upgrades before your first artifact as dh iirc.

Also want to confirm, played aszune as 100 enhancement and while I don't enjoy it as much survival is significantly higher, as is single target damage. Loses out on aoe/mobility significantly, even as a 'good' mobility spec.

[Baelroc]

First Boss Logs:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Second Boss Logs:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e-done&fight=9

Thanks Van.

Want to buy some numbers balancing ASAP.

It seems that although the "buff" from Rage of the Illidari is in, it isn't actually doing any damage.

[Vanyali]

Thanks Van.

Want to buy some numbers balancing ASAP.

It seems that although the "buff" from Rage of the Illidari is in, it isn't actually doing any damage.

I don't have rage of the illidari

anguish & inner demons only. artifact power acquisition hit a fucking massive nerf, hard as hell to gather atm.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Slightly off-topic, but is that tan-ish colored bar above your experience bar the indicator for how much AP you have and can get in a week? I seem to recall they said there was a cap per week for getting it, but i reckon that isn't implemented quite yet possibly since it's only alpha and 110 isn't unlocked yet.

[Etrnlaffair]

Yes! Thank y'all for all y'all do testing for us unfortunate plebs who don't get to play.