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  1. #341
    Banned Tennis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berengil View Post
    Marriage is a fundamentally sh-tty deal for men. There's really no upside.

    " I know! I'll marry this girl and restrict myself sexually just to her. I'll spend my life kissing her behind to keep her happy, and then one day if I piss her off she'll take half my stuff and f someone else. What a wonderful idea!"

    When herp met derp....

    In an earlier time, the downsides were outweighed by the cultural pressure to get married and the social benefits thereof. Now ( as I think Xarim said somewhere else), it's a cost/benefit analysis.

    When I run that analysis, the costs are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay greater than the benefits.
    That's the mindset of someone who values wealth way too much. Many extremely rich and successful men all get married. Why? Because it's the pinnacle of love.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Verzen View Post
    I will tell you right now one of the most STARTLING statistics about marriage. 100% of people who have been divorced have been married at one time or another.

    Don't do it.
    Hmmm......this sounds suspect. Do you have a source?

  3. #343
    Stood in the Fire Actarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    That's the mindset of someone who values wealth way too much. Many extremely rich and successful men all get married. Why? Because it's the pinnacle of love.
    Those men also consider the cost benefit analysis. Being powerful, and a bachelor, is never a good idea. Your spouse can have tremendous influence on your allies, neutrals, and enemies. From charm & beauty to ruthless pragmatism, spouses of wealthy men are chosen well; usually to further their personal goals. I.e. wives of presidents are usually politically involved (Clinton, Obama, Reagan). Or serve their country as FLOTUS to charm and win over hesitant neutrals, strengthen allies, or soften up enemies (Notably both Bushes and Carter). They don't pick some random person, who strikes their fancy, their choices are motivated by a mutual desire to have a powerful partner that will strengthen and support them and ultimately help reach their goals. The common middle-class individual focuses on love, emotion, and connection. I'm not saying that powerful couples don't love each other, but their marriage is built on more than pure attraction and desire.

    Plus rich men and women can afford the best lawyers to create an airtight prenup, and can legally 'hide' assets, so there is very little to actually take.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    I agree, but... If that's the real problem, then why not just marry a woman earning more than you, if you are so afraid of becoming a victim of the system? I mean, I do think that this law is outdated and unfair, but rather than criticizing it from the point, "Men suffer from it", comment on the broader side of things, realizing that many more people suffer from it than just heterosexual men? I just don't like this gender bias in this kind of discussions. Like, whenever Tennisace posts something about women and ignores how this something affects men too, people post hundreds sarcastic comments an hour - but when everybody says the same about men, those very guys suddenly do not mind it at all... I just really-really dislike this one-sided perspective, from both sides, hence I comment so much in here.
    Tennisace posts something like Japan's overwork deaths problem, with 80% victims being men and yet focuses entirely on women. Yup, totally the same as focusing on the gender that actually is more likely to get unfair treatment. Also, he's a man that focuses on women to push some kind of agenda, vs people being concerned about something that can actually affect them. Also the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lutris View Post
    I guess the fundamental flaw in your arguments is that shared property is only 50% yours anyway. It was never completely yours, because it was shared. So "losing half your stuff" is really more of a "getting your half of the investment back" from a glass half-empty perspective.

    It kind of seems like you're assuming all property becomes solely the man's after marriage.
    Yeah, no, it being shared means it is completely yours and just so happens that it's also completely your spouse's. Both of you have all the rights to all of it. As such, both sides lose 50%. Which I said at least three times in this thread, so the only reason why it seems like I'm assuming that all property becomes solely the man's is because you misunderstand joint property, felt the need to project some nonsense on me and didn't bother to read the thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lutris View Post
    Also, marriage is kind of a societal contract these days, and married partners get benefits that aren't available to unmarried partners (e.g. hospital visitation rights, right to inherit the partner's property if one dies, etc.) which is the only real reason gay people have been campaigning for the right to do so.
    That kinda varies depending on where you live.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lutris View Post
    As an aside, I like you. You seem a hell of a lot more rational than like 80% of posters here, and you're absolutely right about both sides' tendency to only focus on their own issues. The world really needs criticism of that.
    That would be all fine and dandy if he didn't do this exact thing just with gender swap. And introducing irrelevant concept like gender pay gap while misunderstanding the most common reasons for dissent about it, doing so with an appeal to ridicule on top of that, is like, the most rational one can get.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  5. #345
    Stood in the Fire Actarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Yeah, no, it being shared means it is completely yours and just so happens that it's also completely your spouse's. Both of you have all the rights to all of it. As such, both sides lose 50%. Which I said at least three times in this thread, so the only reason why it seems like I'm assuming that all property becomes solely the man's is because you misunderstand joint property, felt the need to project some nonsense on me and didn't bother to read the thread.
    I've read all of your posts on joint property (I think) and I've done some looking around about it, but I don't think I fully comprehend your point. I was hoping you could elaborate on it for me, if you have the time.

    Thanks!

  6. #346
    Herald of the Titans Berengil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    That's the mindset of someone who values wealth way too much. Many extremely rich and successful men all get married. Why? Because it's the pinnacle of love.
    Pinnacle of love....sentimentalist rubbish.

    Many wealthy men do get married. And if they have a single functioning neuron, they get an ironclad prenup first.

    Myself? I've never cared about anyone romantically more than a passing thing. I'm firmly in the United States middle class. If i did meet someone for anything more than a 1-nighter, I'd live with them perhaps, but marriage and kids will never AND THE ROCK MEANS EVER happen for me.

    I like keeping my options open, and I don't like having to consider someone else's opinion ( except at my job, where I'm being paid). Being able to walk away from anyone if they piss me off is priority 1 for me.

    I value wealth too much? Forgive the borderline insult, but that is the statement of an idealist. I assume your were taught the Golden Rule as a child.

    Well permit me to shatter your childhood assumptions with the REAL Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

  7. #347
    The Lightbringer
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    Men lie and cheat.
    Women lie and cheat.


    The math does not lie.

  8. #348
    Nah. Marriage is pretty swell.

    Bad relationships are not the result of marriage.

  9. #349
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Tennisace posts something like Japan's overwork deaths problem, with 80% victims being men and yet focuses entirely on women. Yup, totally the same as focusing on the gender that actually is more likely to get unfair treatment. Also, he's a man that focuses on women to push some kind of agenda, vs people being concerned about something that can actually affect them. Also the same.
    It doesn't matter who is more likely to be affected by it; if you consider only one group and ignore the rest, then you are being biased and unfair towards all groups. Now, if you focus on one group, but keep in mind all of them - then yes, that would be fair. Many people here, however, don't bother: read some posters, and they will have you believe that "blah-blah-blah, women steal possessions from men during divorce, blah-blah-blah" - such crazy representation is exactly what people like Tennisace do, they are just on the other bank of the river.

    I'm really tired of all this crap: "group X is to blame for the problems of group Y". Take some responsibility for once, damn it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Berengil View Post
    Pinnacle of love....sentimentalist rubbish.

    Many wealthy men do get married. And if they have a single functioning neuron, they get an ironclad prenup first.

    Myself? I've never cared about anyone romantically more than a passing thing. I'm firmly in the United States middle class. If i did meet someone for anything more than a 1-nighter, I'd live with them perhaps, but marriage and kids will never AND THE ROCK MEANS EVER happen for me.

    I like keeping my options open, and I don't like having to consider someone else's opinion ( except at my job, where I'm being paid). Being able to walk away from anyone if they piss me off is priority 1 for me.

    I value wealth too much? Forgive the borderline insult, but that is the statement of an idealist. I assume your were taught the Golden Rule as a child.

    Well permit me to shatter your childhood assumptions with the REAL Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
    Just because you value wealth so much and relationships so low, doesn't mean everyone does.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    Just because you value wealth so much and relationships so low, doesn't mean everyone does.
    This isn't valuing relationships so low

    Take it from someone who has been in a lot of relationships, this is called being a responsible adult

    In the vast majority of cases you don't become a wealthy person by being emotional and irrational; you certainly don't stay one

    You have to grow up and understand that life isn't unicorns and rainbows; you have to act responsibly, especially with money, because idealism and feelings don't pay the bills or your kids' college tuitions

    If you're not wealthy or your partner is of roughly equal means, there isn't much to discuss.

    It's when there's a disparity in wealth/income that absolutely prenups become necessary (even though they get overturned too often), and protecting your assets becomes a simple matter of responsible financial planning.

    Edit:

    By the way, all those wealthy successful people who are married? Guess what the Panama Papers that just got leaked show. Yep, the wealthy have offshore trusts protecting their assets in case of divorce. Rich people aren't irresponsibly following their feelings, they're adults following the advice of financial advisers who plan for an uncertain future
    Last edited by mmoca8403991fd; 2016-04-05 at 07:02 AM.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    By the way, all those wealthy successful people who are married? Guess what the Panama Papers that just got leaked show. Yep, the wealthy have offshore trusts protecting their assets in case of divorce. Rich people aren't irresponsibly following their feelings, they're adults following the advice of financial advisers who plan for an uncertain future
    Protection in case of divorce is a nice bonus, not the sole purpose of offshore trusts, hehe...

  12. #352
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    I worked very hard to acquire the assets i have today. I have a 9-5 job and a small business. All the money i put in my house and my business is an investment in to my future and no matter what happens i will always have my own house. It would be nothing short of lunacy to gamble this security on a promise of eternal love since 47% of all marriages in Sweden end in divorce. It's practically the same as gambling it all on red or black at the roulette table in a Casino.
    Then there is also the factor on inheritance. If you stand to inherit from your parents your wife will be entitled to half of that inheritance unless your parents has stipulated in their will that it was the sole property of their offspring something that a lot of people don't specify in their wills.

    A shrewd lady could possibly walk out of a divorce with not only half of your life work, but also half of your parents. Be ware.

  13. #353
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    This isn't valuing relationships so low

    Take it from someone who has been in a lot of relationships, this is called being a responsible adult

    In the vast majority of cases you don't become a wealthy person by being emotional and irrational; you certainly don't stay one

    You have to grow up and understand that life isn't unicorns and rainbows; you have to act responsibly, especially with money, because idealism and feelings don't pay the bills or your kids' college tuitions

    If you're not wealthy or your partner is of roughly equal means, there isn't much to discuss.

    It's when there's a disparity in wealth/income that absolutely prenups become necessary (even though they get overturned too often), and protecting your assets becomes a simple matter of responsible financial planning.

    Edit:

    By the way, all those wealthy successful people who are married? Guess what the Panama Papers that just got leaked show. Yep, the wealthy have offshore trusts protecting their assets in case of divorce. Rich people aren't irresponsibly following their feelings, they're adults following the advice of financial advisers who plan for an uncertain future
    I agree that it is a good idea to take reasonable precautions, but there is a difference between reasonable precautions and paranoia. "I believe my marriage will succeed, but, just in case it doesn't, I'll take some measures to make sure I don't accidentally end up broke" - reasonable. "I have seen so many cases of marriages ruining people's lives, that I will never marry anyone, or if I do, I will make sure that my wife gets nothing of my possessions if it fails" - paranoia.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  14. #354
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    I agree that it is a good idea to take reasonable precautions, but there is a difference between reasonable precautions and paranoia. "I believe my marriage will succeed, but, just in case it doesn't, I'll take some measures to make sure I don't accidentally end up broke" - reasonable. "I have seen so many cases of marriages ruining people's lives, that I will never marry anyone, or if I do, I will make sure that my wife gets nothing of my possessions if it fails" - paranoia.
    Just compare the costs vs the benefits

    Not getting married doesn't mean you can't have fun and fulfilling relationships, even kids

    The upside is very limited; the downside, life-destroying

    It's not surprising only 25% of young people even want to get married now, and the number keeps dropping

  15. #355
    Well , been married almost 10 years ... Couldn't image ever being single again. My wife is truly my best friend and bonus she has a vagina !!! Its a win , win ... Some of these post are a little dramatic lol.....

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    Just compare the costs vs the benefits

    Not getting married doesn't mean you can't have fun and fulfilling relationships, even kids

    The upside is very limited; the downside, life-destroying

    It's not surprising only 25% of young people even want to get married now, and the number keeps dropping
    Not getting married does not mean that a spouse is not entitled to a share of the assets if they split up.

  17. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Not getting married does not mean that a spouse is not entitled to a share of the assets if they split up.
    I think "entitled" is indeed the right word

    It's 2016, people shouldn't be "entitled" to anything based on archaic rules about marriage and property

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    I agree that it is a good idea to take reasonable precautions, but there is a difference between reasonable precautions and paranoia. "I believe my marriage will succeed, but, just in case it doesn't, I'll take some measures to make sure I don't accidentally end up broke" - reasonable. "I have seen so many cases of marriages ruining people's lives, that I will never marry anyone, or if I do, I will make sure that my wife gets nothing of my possessions if it fails" - paranoia.
    This is probably why prenups are not more common even though the whole stereotype of the gold digging harlot is older than dirt by now. People are attracted to confidence and forcing your potential spouse to sign a prenup is probably the least alpha thing you could do, since it signals that you're frightened and uncertain about the future and want some protection from risk. Now, that might be a logical and rational thing to do, but there's a reason why people who haul out the actuarial tables for every important decision they face in life aren't exactly viewed with high esteem by society.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    I think "entitled" is indeed the right word

    It's 2016, people shouldn't be "entitled" to anything based on archaic rules about marriage and property
    Why shouldn't people be entitled to a share of the assets they helped amass? What is it that is archaic about property or marriage laws?

  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Why shouldn't people be entitled to a share of the assets they helped amass? What is it that is archaic about property or marriage laws?
    Those laws come from an era where women were household dependents of men, like children

    Children don't "help amass" wealth, they just need to be protected and provided for because they can't be expected to earn, just as women were not expected to earn

    These laws have no place in the modern world

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