Stingrays - government spying on our cell phones

[Tradewind]

There's no point arguing with someone who is just flat-out goddamn wrong. It's not like I have a fuckin' decade of experience in this shit or anything lol. Have fun in your faraday cage eating tins of navy beans.

[Caolela]

I have years of prior experience as a military Intelligence Analyst with a top secret clearance, but you don't see me using that to pull unsupported claims out of my ass, which I couldn't post evidence of in a public forum anyway.

At any rate, you can't deny the facts so you throw a tantrum and revert to bluster and childish foot-stomping. If you can't post reasonable points to discuss, then GTFO.

[Tradewind]

Sure you do buddy lol.

[Deleted]

thought america was the land of the free

[noladrew]

The links given in the OP and several posts in the thread show that indeed, Stingrays can read data from your phone. They're advertised by the manufacturer to do just that, and they're used by at least 13 federal agencies and now local and state cops, as those links show.

You've just proven that you're here to mindlessly bicker and/or thread crap, or you haven't looked at the facts.

BTW, here's some news for you: "ultimately", I don't own a TV and haven't for several years. I don't sub to things like Netflix. You might have guessed that from my avatar. So quit assuming personal info that you know nothing about, just to make silly insults.

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Don't know how you're missing that it's not just about YOU. I thought that was clear in my reply. It's about what's constitutional and legal for the entire citizenry. Your lack of being abused by this personally from law enforcement, or that you don't care if you're being spied on is irrelevant to that principle, as was pointed out.

It's been discussed, so don't keep harping on it.

I just dont care if they're "spying" on anyone. If they misuse and abuse it, it will come to light and they will get fucked for it. If its used to potentially stop a huge terrorist plot or to find kidnap victims etc.... then more power to them. If you dont have shit to hide, it shouldnt bother you. Get past the moral idea of "OMG MY FREEDUMBZ". Sometimes for the greater good, some lines should be crossed.

[Damajin]

I just dont care if they're "spying" on anyone. If they misuse and abuse it, it will come to light and they will get fucked for it. If its used to potentially stop a huge terrorist plot or to find kidnap victims etc.... then more power to them. If you dont have shit to hide, it shouldnt bother you. Get past the moral idea of "OMG MY FREEDUMBZ". Sometimes for the greater good, some lines should be crossed.

No sorry, they shouldn't because once they're crossed the line just moves further inward until they don't have to cross the line anymore, they've got all the authority, power and control they need thanks to your acquiescence.

But you've already said you don't care if they're spying on anyone, so really having a serious discussion with you is pointless.

[Caolela]

Sure you do buddy lol.

Sure I do buddy - what? I graduated MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) 96B at the U.S. Army Intelligence Center and School in Ft. Huachuca, AZ in 1980 (with honors/Letter of Commendation), then went to the 1st Cavalry Div., 312th Military Intelligence Batt., 191st M.I. Co. in Ft. Hood, TX for permanent duty (received Letter of Commendation and early promotion) when 1st Cav. was part of the Rapid Deployment Force, then on to Intel work at III Corps.

You can take that or leave it. I'm not in the habit of posting my DD214 on public forums so don't ask such stupidity.

[Annoying]

Sure I do buddy - what? I graduated MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) 96B at the U.S. Army Intelligence Center and School in Ft. Huachuca, AZ in 1980 (with honors/Letter of Commendation), then went to the 1st Cavalry Div., 312th Military Intelligence Batt., 191st M.I. Co. in Ft. Hood, TX for permanent duty (received Letter of Commendation and early promotion) when 1st Cav. was part of the Rapid Deployment Force, then on to Intel work at III Corps.

You can take that or leave it. I'm not in the habit of posting my DD214 on public forums so don't ask such stupidity.

C'mon, man, just post your SF18 here so we can see everything you've done in the last 10 years of your life. /s

[noladrew]

No sorry, they shouldn't because once they're crossed the line just moves further inward until they don't have to cross the line anymore, they've got all the authority, power and control they need thanks to your acquiescence.

But you've already said you don't care if they're spying on anyone, so really having a serious discussion with you is pointless.

Do you really think as a person arguing your point on an internet forum, you have any power over what the government does or doesn't do? Do you actually think for one second the government won't actually do what it wants to, whether its "constitutional" or not? Why get all worked up about it and even care? Freedoms like this were lost a long time ago, if they ever even truly existed. Hopefully some of them at least do the right thing with what they're doing and stop criminals from doing illegal things like raping people, killing people, kidnapping, so on and so forth. Who gives a flying fuck if they're listening to your phone calls otherwise? What do YOU have to hide that makes you care so much?

[Caolela]

I just dont care if they're "spying" on anyone. If they misuse and abuse it, it will come to light and they will get fucked for it. If its used to potentially stop a huge terrorist plot or to find kidnap victims etc.... then more power to them. If you dont have shit to hide, it shouldnt bother you. Get past the moral idea of "OMG MY FREEDUMBZ". Sometimes for the greater good, some lines should be crossed.

It's not for the greater good when it is unconstitutional, as has been noted here many times now. This idea that it'll get exposed and heads will roll is also wrong, since we've yet to see anyone in either the Bush or Obama Admins. be held responsible in any meaningful way, and there is still woefully lacking oversight.

To the contrary, several whistleblowers such as the previously mentioned Binney, Drake, Wiebe, and Snowden have been harassed, falsely accused, detained, dragged into court, or financially damaged by the Feds because they dared to go public with their stories.

But that was their duty. They took oaths just as I did to uphold the Constitution against all enemies - foreign AND domestic - not an oath to any agency, military commander, NSA Director, or U.S. President.

In fact, the secret domestic spying ops have only increased over the past decade or so, as the OP has shown. What's more, the gov't has yet to prove that any "big terrorist plots" have been interdicted because of this.

[Damajin]

Do you really think as a person arguing your point on an internet forum, you have any power over what the government does or doesn't do? Do you actually think for one second the government won't actually do what it wants to, whether its "constitutional" or not? Why get all worked up about it and even care? Freedoms like this were lost a long time ago, if they ever even truly existed. Hopefully some of them at least do the right thing with what they're doing and stop criminals from doing illegal things like raping people, killing people, kidnapping, so on and so forth. Who gives a flying fuck if they're listening to your phone calls otherwise? What do YOU have to hide that makes you care so much?

Quite a bit, the majority of my life actually which it seems I value more than you do.

The point of discussing this here is to both increase peoples' knowledge of what is going on and to confront them with the fact that it's wrong and why it's wrong. The government does what it does because of two people: enablers like you and distracted types who couldn't give a shit anyways.

We get worked up and care because it's important, and if it isn't to you that's fine and dandy but don't stand in the way of people who do and ultimately will end of dragging your uncaring ass to a better way of life where the government and its' approved agents both bureaucratic and corporate don't know every single piece of info about you.

If you don't know by now the government has long been funding the very types of people doing the things it claims it needs these provisions and legal articles for. So acting like they will do the right thing by implying that the right thing is stopping the criminals which they've got both overt and covert hands in is ludicrous at best.

But ask yourself this: what happens when they hear something you don't want them to hear? You going to look back at all the times you've vouchsafed their actions and feel any regret and personal shame or are you just going to slink off quietly while the realization haunts you for the rest of your life?

[Caolela]

Who gives a flying fuck if they're listening to your phone calls otherwise? What do YOU have to hide that makes you care so much?

This has been asked and answered.

There is no excuse or justification for the government's unnecessary, unproductive, illegal/unconstitutional, and totalitarian actions. Why people care is because they don't want their rights being trampled by an out-of-control police state.

WE (the citizens) are supposed to know about what THEY (the gov't) are doing. They are not supposed to know about everything we are doing.

[satimy]

Only the in the land of the free can people elect a constitutional lawyer as president and have shit like this.

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I just dont care if they're "spying" on anyone. If they misuse and abuse it, it will come to light and they will get fucked for it. If its used to potentially stop a huge terrorist plot or to find kidnap victims etc.... then more power to them. If you dont have shit to hide, it shouldnt bother you. Get past the moral idea of "OMG MY FREEDUMBZ". Sometimes for the greater good, some lines should be crossed.

Yea those police agencies are always held to such stringent standards

Kappa

[Caolela]

It is pretty disgusting, but Obama is influenced by the same forces that Shrub & Darth were when they were doing the same thing - those being world hegemony/imperialism and corporatism.

[Ariselea]

I don't see the problem.
If you're doing something wrong then you're asking for it?
As someone already mentioned, I doubt, very much, if you're discussing illegal things, then it's not grounds to throw you in jail but if your profile shows priors or anything like that then I don't think it's out of hands for the FBI to intervene.

[zhero]

Fine by me.

I value safety over my "digital privacy".

it isn't providing you with any safety.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

My opinion on this hasn't changed. Yeah it's a problem but let's not do the slippery slope arguments. It's a fallacy.

[Caolela]

I don't see the problem.
If you're doing something wrong then you're asking for it?
As someone already mentioned, I doubt, very much, if you're discussing illegal things, then it's not grounds to throw you in jail but if your profile shows priors or anything like that then I don't think it's out of hands for the FBI to intervene.

There are numerous examples of when a law enforcement agency has used illegally obtained evidence for trumped-up charges, for intimidation, and other nefarious purposes. In fact, it is a form of intimidation just knowing they can snoop you anywhere, anytime w/o your consent or a warrant.

This illegal datamining only encourages and enables more of that.

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Yeah it's a problem but let's not do the slippery slope arguments. It's a fallacy.

It is an absolute fact. The fallacy is believing they won't use it if they have it.

[lockedout]

There are numerous examples of when a law enforcement agency has used illegally obtained evidence for trumped-up charges,

There are numerous cases where they used a stingray and when the judge asked to see the equipment used they chose to just dismiss the case instead of bringing stingray into court.

[Caolela]

^ Yep so IOW, "If we can't get away with illegal search, evidence tampering, whatever...we'll just pick up our toys and leave."