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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    It was http://www.infopankki.fi/en/living-i...amily/marriage that called it that. Call it a cucumber if you want though, doesn't change the fact there's still religious influence on how it works.
    The page you link doesn't even mention anything about religion or church. Want to know why? Religion is completely irrelevant with marriages, unless you yourself marry for religious reasons. Haven't known anyone who has tho.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  2. #402
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Which part of "people's dissent with gender pay gap usually lies with it's explanation by feminists" can't you fucking understand? And gender pay gap is almost always discussed in the feminist framework. So when someone says it is a myth, it's the feminist portrayal that is a myth, because it makes zero sense. You quoted a definition from European Commission, good for you. Want a pat on the head or something? That is totally the framework in which gender pay gap is usually discussed and, consequently, criticized on these forums. I'm sure that was the case in the thread you were referring to in your irrelevant comparison and appeal to ridicule. And weirdly enough, even Department of Labor's findings on 4% gap weren't conclusive about whether or not these remaining 4% could also not be attributed to something.

    Also, as I already added in previous post in an edit, you're dishonestly twisting the claim made in this thread. Which, you know, was about men statistically being more likely to be breadwinners of their households. There's this group of people that's not married. #NotAllMen And as even you yourself admitted, the breadwinner thing can sometimes be caused by woman being a stay at home wife. Your comparison has more holes than the deity of Swiss cheese.
    No, you don't get to redefine terms like that just because someone stupid decided to do so. If Anita Sarkeesian whales about sexism being the only real factor in the gender pay gap, it doesn't redefine the meaning of "gender pay gap". I agree that claim that "gender pay gap is caused solely by a sexism" is not only a myth, it is just a stupid thing to say - that doesn't mean that statistical fact known as "gender pay gap" exists, nor does it mean that sexism does not contribute to it in some (maybe minor, maybe not) way.

    It really is a debate on terminology, and, again, it doesn't have anything to do with the hypocrisy I pointed out.

    Regarding the breadwinner thing, I don't see what it has to do with what I said at all - but... *shrugs* I don't think it really matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    They don't go boo marriage though ...

    (Primarily because it's politically incorrect.)
    They do talk about a lot of stories about "marriage gone wrong", of course tending to choose the most extreme examples, since they are more interesting to read. Yes, few people openly say, "marriage is wrong". Few people also openly say, "refugees are rapists" - but the stereotype (however popular) is already there, due to the way mass media work.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    It seems to go like this:

    Gender pay gap = feminist lies
    Patriarchy = feminist lies
    Yes, feminists' portrayal of gender pay gap is usually lies. Not exactly news, but apparently it needs to be said.


    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    Then we get to the fun part: woman always takes half of mans fortune. Funny how the causes somehow do not exist, but the result of those non existant causes then exist in the minds of some guys here.
    Not like there were many posters who said it's always the case and not like the issue of losing half of it was explained to you already, but why exactly do married women often earn less than their husbands? Could it be because they take time off to take care of their kids and sacrifice career advancement, while their husbands do not? Could it be that some remain stay at home wives, in which case their pay doesn't even exist because *gasp* they chose not to work? And even if they work, they could have chosen less paying fields, which is statistically the case? All caused by women's choices. Not by discrimination, i.e. the way feminists portray gender pay gap. But feel free to continue pretending not knowing why people are critical in gender pay gap topics.


    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    The page you link doesn't even mention anything about religion or church. Want to know why? Religion is completely irrelevant with marriages, unless you yourself marry for religious reasons. Haven't known anyone who has tho.
    What the fuck does it have to do with anything? Secular ceremony doesn't mention religion? No waiiiii :O Totally negates secular marriage ceremony being modeled after Christian one in Christian countries!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    What the fuck does it have to do with anything? Secular ceremony doesn't mention religion? No waiiiii :O Totally negates secular marriage ceremony being modeled after Christian one in Christian countries!
    Here's a better question: Even getting married in church for few hours of your life, what on earth does that have to do with marriage being "just a religious tradition"? You are religious because you've visited church once in you life? Your marriage is religious tradition because you spent 2 minutes or hours of your life on "ceremony"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  5. #405
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    Here's a better question: Even getting married in church for few hours of your life, what on earth does that have to do with marriage being "just a religious tradition"? You are religious because you've visited church once in you life? Your marriage is religious tradition because you spent 2 minutes or hours of your life on "ceremony"?
    Good points. Marriage is not a religious event unless the ones getting married want it to be and they prefer it is one which their God is witness to. But marriage itself has been around for thousands of years and before the foundation of some major religions. I wanted to be married in a church because for myself it was a part of my religious life. And I take vows and pledges seriously. Even the one I made to my country when I was sworn in to serve in the Army. Which I personally believe God was a witness to.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Good points. Marriage is not a religious event unless the ones getting married want it to be and they prefer it is one which their God is witness to. But marriage itself has been around for thousands of years and before the foundation of some major religions. I wanted to be married in a church because for myself it was a part of my religious life. And I take vows and pledges seriously. Even the one I made to my country when I was sworn in to serve in the Army. Which I personally believe God was a witness to.
    Exactly. It can be religious event and tradition, but it doesn't have to be only that, since it predates religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  7. #407
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Christmas is, technically, a religious tradition. But I personally don't know a single person who treats it as such. Most just see it as a time off work, when everyone goes shopping and eating tasty food with their families.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    Here's a better question: Even getting married in church for few hours of your life, what on earth does that have to do with marriage being "just a religious tradition"? You are religious because you've visited church once in you life? Your marriage is religious tradition because you spent 2 minutes or hours of your life on "ceremony"?
    Now take a trip down the memory lane, go back a few posts and do read the part where I said that Lotus Victorya calling it just a religious tradition is incorrect. Because it's a thing that has happened. Religious influence is much more recent and was prevalent for centuries. As such, it has more of an impact on the general idea than generally forgotten traditions predating it. Marriage is largely a cultural thing and that includes secular marriage. It does not exist in a vacuum and is affected by things like religion. In Europe the institution of civil marriage stems mostly from Napoleonic law. Which simply replaced the specifically Christian aspects for secular ones. The rest of your post is a non-sequitur.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2016-04-05 at 01:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    Exactly. It can be religious event and tradition, but it doesn't have to be only that, since it predates religion.
    And in the eyes of the U.S. Government you are not married until you go to the Courthouse and sign the required paper work.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Now take a trip down the memory lane, go back a few posts and do read the part where I said that Lotus Victorya calling it just a religious tradition is incorrect. Because it's a thing that has happened. Religious influence is much more recent and was prevalent for centuries. As such, it has more influence on the general idea than largely forgotten traditions predating it. Marriage is largely a cultural thing and that includes secular marriage. It does not exist in a vacuum and is affected by things like religion. The rest of your post is a non-sequitur.
    Fair enough I suppose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    No, you don't get to redefine terms like that just because someone stupid decided to do so.
    Criticism of feminists redefining the term is also redefining the term? Riveting tale. Also, here's your beloved European Commision's actual stance of the matter and not just one line summary you got from Wikipedia: http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-e...p/index_en.htm The very first sentence and it already blames discrimination for it.


    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    It really is a debate on terminology, and, again, it doesn't have anything to do with the hypocrisy I pointed out.
    Which, again, exists only because you deliberately misrepresent people's criticism. Continue to pretend it's something different all you want though.


    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    Regarding the breadwinner thing, I don't see what it has to do with what I said at all - but... *shrugs* I don't think it really matters.
    You don't see how a claim about specific group of men and women (i.e. the married ones) somehow "proving" hypocrisy in relation to one's stance gender pay gap in the whole population is a dishonest comparison? Buy better eyes.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2016-04-05 at 01:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  12. #412
    Divorce isn't always loaded against the male. I have a female friend who was the bread winner in her marriage. Her husband was an emotionally abusive fuckwad who couldn't hold a steady job once he realized how sweet it was to sit on his ass. And he ended up taking her to the cleaners with child support despite having a 50/50 joint custody arrangement.

    It's basically loaded against the breadwinner...hard... Never get into such an arrangement if you are going to be the breadwinner. At least not without a comprehensive prenuptual agreement.

  13. #413
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    1. Gender pay gap is a myth.
    2. Men tend to earn more than women.
    They are not contradictory claims, because Person A can earn x dollar/hour, work one hour and person B work three hours but only earn (x/2) dollars/hour
    Which means that Person A and B have a wage gap, towards Each other.
    So no they are not contradictory claims!

  14. #414
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Criticism of feminists redefining the term is also redefining the term? Riveting tale. Also, here's your beloved European Commision's actual stance of the matter and not just one line summary you got from Wikipedia: http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-e...p/index_en.htm The very first sentence and it already blames discrimination for it.
    But you aren't saying, "Gender pay gap as explained by feminists is myth". You are saying, "Gender pay gap is a myth" - or, at least, those people I was referring to were saying that. Not my fault that they do not say what they mean. I am not going to guess all the new meanings they voluntarily assign to the words they use, I am going to address what they say, not what they think they say.

    What EC blames gender pay gap on is irrelevant to the definition of gender pay gap.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    They are not contradictory claims, because Person A can earn x dollar/hour, work one hour and person B work three hours but only earn (x/2) dollars/hour
    Which means that Person A and B have a wage gap, towards Each other.
    So no they are not contradictory claims!
    Fair enough, I suppose. Criticism accepted.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  15. #415
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    And in the eyes of the U.S. Government you are not married until you go to the Courthouse and sign the required paper work.
    Of course. But her point was it is not a religious ceremony as such unless the couple want it to be. For example, there are some elderly couples who decide to live together and not get legally married because of concerns over lost of retirement benefits. To them they may feel married and for their purposes, it may mean just as much as any other legal marriage.

  16. #416
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    You don't need to get married in church, you don't need a private wedding with priest talking of god either. You can go sign papers at legal office and there's no mention of jesus or religion anywhere in the process.
    yeah because the law was in no way influenced by the religion, no.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Of course. But her point was it is not a religious ceremony as such unless the couple want it to be. For example, there are some elderly couples who decide to live together and not get legally married because of concerns over lost of retirement benefits. To them they may feel married and for their purposes, it may mean just as much as any other legal marriage.
    Yes, I know. I was just adding on.

  18. #418
    Deleted
    Notice how everyone who advocates for marriage cannot give a single good reason why someone should get married. Its either rooted in religion, tradition or some vague "its the right thing to do" rooted in both religion and tradition.

    Nothing is gained from it. Married couples have no major advantages that regular couples have. The opposite is actually true, a non married couple can break up, without lawyers, courts and tons of money and anguish on the line.


    If taking a 50% chance of having to hire a lawyer, spend tons of money on that and court appearances is a good investment to you, then id like to announce that i got dirt and grass to sell to you.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    yeah because the law was in no way influenced by the religion, no.
    So? Laws are influenced by corrupt politicians also. Does this mean that every law abiding citizen is corrupt politician also?

    Quote Originally Posted by Into View Post
    Notice how everyone who advocates for marriage cannot give a single good reason why someone should get married. Its either rooted in religion, tradition or some vague "its the right thing to do" rooted in both religion and tradition.

    Nothing is gained from it. Married couples have no major advantages that regular couples have. The opposite is actually true, a non married couple can break up, without lawyers, courts and tons of money and anguish on the line.


    If taking a 50% chance of having to hire a lawyer, spend tons of money on that and court appearances is a good investment to you, then id like to announce that i got dirt and grass to sell to you.
    Laughably false and ignorant statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  20. #420
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    So? Laws are influenced by corrupt politicians also. Does this mean that every law abiding citizen is corrupt politician also?
    Can you please parse this analogy for me? - Because i sure as hell cant.

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