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  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikan View Post
    To rent a two bedroom apartment, the US average is $840. For Los Angeles its $1,390. For San Jose its $1,780. For San Francisco its $2,000. (Early 2015 numbers)

    Yeah, CA needs this.

    If small business don't adjust their wages for the high cost of living they won't have any employees either, as nobody will be able to afford to work for them.
    Or those people need to go somewhere they can afford to live....Never mind burger flippers are idiots anyways.

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    Getting popcorn and waiting for people to lose their jobs and ask why when it was already explained to them....it is going to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Let's check the living wage calculator at MIT, shall we? http://livingwage.mit.edu/

    Let's compare a nuclear one-income family, so we include child care and the like into costs.

    NYC is at $26.53/hour, for a single-income worker working full-time to make a living wage. http://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/35620

    Billings, Montana? $21.51. http://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/13740

    Not the huge gap you're claiming. While housing's certainly more expensive in NYC, a lot of other costs are cheaper, leading to a narrower gap than you apparently expected.
    I would say the shitty adult not working should either get to work or watch the fucking kids....

  2. #782
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    I didn't realize that "not living on welfare" was "living like a king."

    Why do you like subsidizing minimum wage workers through taxes Orlong? I thought you hated taxes?
    I do. I advocate working hard and doing what you can with what you have. Get a roommate, get a second job, cut the cable, make kraft mac and cheese for dinner instead of mcdonalds, etc... The poor seemed to get by before we had welfare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Let's check the living wage calculator at MIT, shall we? http://livingwage.mit.edu/

    Let's compare a nuclear one-income family, so we include child care and the like into costs.

    NYC is at $26.53/hour, for a single-income worker working full-time to make a living wage. http://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/35620

    Billings, Montana? $21.51. http://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/13740

    Not the huge gap you're claiming. While housing's certainly more expensive in NYC, a lot of other costs are cheaper, leading to a narrower gap than you apparently expected.
    People shouldnt have kids they cant afford

  3. #783
    People need to accept that ether A) You pay people a liveable wage or B) The goverment *tax's* picks up the slack.

    Sorry you can't have your cake and eat it too. People need to be able to live and if you don't want your tax's to do it then get companys to start paying peole a liveable wage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I do. I advocate working hard and doing what you can with what you have. Get a roommate, get a second job, cut the cable, make kraft mac and cheese for dinner instead of mcdonalds, etc... The poor seemed to get by before we had welfare
    If you have to get a roomate or a second job the you are not making a liveable wage. Minimum wage was put into place to be liveable wage and it isn't.
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  4. #784
    That will work for places where the cost of living is retarded high like California or most other southern states. But places like MN where you can live very comfortably on $12.00/hr than I cannot see it being raised any higher that maybe $10.00. Places just cannot afford to pay out some worthless kid $15.00/hr when they may just up and quit in a day or 2 after you spent 3 weeks training them and paying for that time.

  5. #785
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I do. I advocate working hard and doing what you can with what you have. Get a roommate, get a second job, cut the cable, make kraft mac and cheese for dinner instead of mcdonalds, etc... The poor seemed to get by before we had welfare
    There's no room in my apartment for a roommate. You expect me to move to a larger apartment that'll cost even more?

    Get a second job? Seriously? I work, at minimum twelve hours a day. That's when everything goes right, which in the airline industry, is about as common as a planetary alignment. When am I going to work a second job? On my weekends? So I can kill myself because of all the stress and lack of relaxation? Die from a heart attack when I'm thirty. Sounds like a plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    I thought they were all about abolishing taxes altogether, then letting business owners and employers have free reign to do whatever they want in terms of setting things like prices, pay, rights and working conditions?
    Yeah, some of them are, which is mind-boggling. We've done that before. It was called the "Gilded Age." When robber barons exploited workers and child labor, when coal miners were paid in "scrip" and could only buy from the company store, when lack of regulation poisoned the air. We put in laws and regulations against this for a reason and now, about a century later, people are forgetting why.
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  6. #786
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    That will work for places where the cost of living is retarded high like California or most other southern states. But places like MN where you can live very comfortably on $12.00/hr than I cannot see it being raised any higher that maybe $10.00. Places just cannot afford to pay out some worthless kid $15.00/hr when they may just up and quit in a day or 2 after you spent 3 weeks training them and paying for that time.
    Statistically we see that employee turnover is far lower when they are paid decent wages. This is both beneficial to the employee as he has more disposable income and for the company as they are not training as many new hires. Would you just up and quit your job if you got a raise? That's the argument your last line seems to make.

  7. #787
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    That will work for places where the cost of living is retarded high like California or most other southern states. But places like MN where you can live very comfortably on $12.00/hr than I cannot see it being raised any higher that maybe $10.00. Places just cannot afford to pay out some worthless kid $15.00/hr when they may just up and quit in a day or 2 after you spent 3 weeks training them and paying for that time.
    your argument is flawed already because your injecting bias into it with your negative assumptions of the value of the worker without even knowing who or what they are. also if you think they are so worthless i suggest you make your burger then or ring yourself up at the register. don't come crying to us in 20-30 years when robots have replaced your job as well.
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  8. #788
    Quote Originally Posted by Titan2k10 View Post
    Or those people need to go somewhere they can afford to live....Never mind burger flippers are idiots anyways.
    The counter to this though is that if you live there do you want to be able to order burgers sometime? Because if you do, then someone needs to be employed in that position. And if someone is going to stand over a hot grill all day flipping burgers so that you can come in and order one, then that person should be able to afford to put a roof over their head, feed themselves, and get to and from work, and be able to have a family if both parents are working (you know, the bare minimum to live and ensure that the country keeps going) so they can afford to work this task you want them to perform.

  9. #789
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Let's check the living wage calculator at MIT, shall we? http://livingwage.mit.edu/

    Let's compare a nuclear one-income family, so we include child care and the like into costs.

    NYC is at $26.53/hour, for a single-income worker working full-time to make a living wage. http://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/35620

    Billings, Montana? $21.51. http://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/13740

    Not the huge gap you're claiming. While housing's certainly more expensive in NYC, a lot of other costs are cheaper, leading to a narrower gap than you apparently expected.
    Sweet, we should make the minimum wage at $27.00 nationally.
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  10. #790
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    There's no room in my apartment for a roommate. You expect me to move to a larger apartment that'll cost even more?

    Get a second job? Seriously? I work, at minimum twelve hours a day. That's when everything goes right, which in the airline industry, is about as common as a planetary alignment. When am I going to work a second job? On my weekends? So I can kill myself because of all the stress and lack of relaxation? Die from a heart attack when I'm thirty. Sounds like a plan.

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    Yeah, some of them are, which is mind-boggling. We've done that before. It was called the "Gilded Age." When robber barons exploited workers and child labor, when coal miners were paid in "scrip" and could only buy from the company store, when lack of regulation poisoned the air. We put in laws and regulations against this for a reason and now, about a century later, people are forgetting why.
    I really doubt youre making minimum wage anyway as a baggage handler, and if you are, keep working hard and do better than everyone else and youll get a raise or promoted to a supervisory position. Another airline may even notice your hard work and offer you more than you make with the one youre working for now. People dont realize how few jobs actually pay minimum wage. Even fast food restaurants are paying $9/hour plus everywhere I see. And they ALL have help wanted signs in the restaurants. Many even give you help wanted flyers on your tray.

  11. #791
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I really doubt youre making minimum wage anyway as a baggage handler, and if you are, keep working hard and do better than everyone else and youll get a raise or promoted to a supervisory position. Another airline may even notice your hard work and offer you more than you make with the one youre working for now. People dont realize how few jobs actually pay minimum wage. Even fast food restaurants are paying $9/hour plus everywhere I see. And they ALL have help wanted signs in the restaurants. Many even give you help wanted flyers on your tray.
    The fact you believe any of this shows you don't have a clue.

    My GF works at the store Kroger and it took her over 5 years to get full time. Her uncle works for the same company just at a different store, They have him work 40hrs a week at barely $8 a hour. They do not have to hire him on as a full time (More money/benfits) unless he works 40hrs for 12 weeks stright. So around the 11th week they drop his hours to about 35. Even if they did work him all 12 weeks at 40hrs who gets full time is based on seniority.

    You don't realise how many companys do infact pay minimum wage and skate around many loopholes to have there employees work a fuck ton of hours for little pay. You also do realise that Walmart is the number 1 job provider in the US right??? I mean ya they start you off at $9.25 a hour but you work less then 20hrs a week.

    Thanks for proving you got no clue how the real word works Orlong. Also no other airline is going to check others out for a baggage handler. To add even if lot of places started you off at $9 a hour it wouldn't make any difference if they only work you for 20hrs or less a week.

    As I said it doesn't matter if they start you off at $9 a hour if you work less then 20hrs a week. $100 a hour sounds great but is shit when you only work 1hr a week...
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  12. #792
    Pandaren Monk Shamburger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    The fact you believe any of this shows you don't have a clue.

    My GF works at the store Kroger and it took her over 5 years to get full time. Her uncle works for the same company just at a different store, They have him work 40hrs a week at barely $8 a hour. They do not have to hire him on as a full time (More money/benfits) unless he works 40hrs for 12 weeks stright. So around the 11th week they drop his hours to about 35. Even if they did work him all 12 weeks at 40hrs who gets full time is based on seniority.

    You don't realise how many companys do infact pay minimum wage and skate around many loopholes to have there employees work a fuck ton of hours for little pay. You also do realise that Walmart is the number 1 job provider in the US right??? I mean ya they start you off at $9.25 a hour but you work less then 20hrs a week.

    Thanks for proving you got no clue how the real word works Orlong. Also no other airline is going to check others out for a baggage handler. To add even if lot of places started you off at $9 a hour it wouldn't make any difference if they only work you for 20hrs or less a week.

    As I said it doesn't matter if they start you off at $9 a hour if you work less then 20hrs a week. $100 a hour sounds great but is shit when you only work 1hr a week...
    Anyone who stays at a job like this for an extended period of time (especially at that pay) is an idiot. An intelligent person would have quit after the first or 2nd time that happened...

  13. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    I can pick a random dude from the street, put him behind a hot plate and in an hour he will be able to serve everyone a mc donalds burger.
    That is just how it is.
    It might be stressful and exhausting, but so are all the other jobs.
    I sit behind a desk all day and come home exhausted as well.
    The difference between the 2 is that I can't take a random guy from the street and put him behind the desk/meeting room and do the job.
    And that is why a burger flipper makes minimum wage and I don't.

    I am guessing you think I am a entitled horrible person?
    You'd be surprised how many people can't do even simple basic tasks. I worked going through college, and I trained these people, not as a manager but as a senior employee. There are a lot of people who fail at really basic tasks. And again, my point is this. These jobs may not require specialized skills, but they are no way easy. I found my minimum wage jobs harder on me than any job I have had since, because there was so much work to do. They try to squeeze as much out of wage workers as they can.

    I had a lot of people who would come in and I'd start training them. After a week they'd start complaining about how they were above this, that they had special skills and this didn't challenge them nearly enough. These were the people who were exhausted half way through their shift and the quality of their work decreased dramatically after that point. They would quit after two or three weeks. They were always the kids who had mommy and daddy's credit card and support to do anything they wanted to do. So yeah, anyone who was "that person" is a spoiled, entitled special snowflake.
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  14. #794
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamburger View Post
    Anyone who stays at a job like this for an extended period of time (especially at that pay) is an idiot. An intelligent person would have quit after the first or 2nd time that happened...
    And if you can't find any other work?

    It's pretty ridiculous that some people, like yourself, assume that jobs are easy to come by and readily available to everyone.


  15. #795
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I really doubt youre making minimum wage anyway as a baggage handler, and if you are, keep working hard and do better than everyone else and youll get a raise or promoted to a supervisory position. Another airline may even notice your hard work and offer you more than you make with the one youre working for now.
    And then what? Say he works his ass off for that supervisory position. Who is then handling the baggage? The job still has to be done and those people still need a living wage.

    It doesn't matter how hard you work. The "better" jobs are strictly limited. The "lesser" jobs still require people to do it. Those people still need food and a roof over their head. And transportation to get to work. And clothing because no one likes a naked baggage handler.

    Using your logic of doing "anything" doing something we could end up like those Chinese workers at Foxconn. They are doing anything to get ahead in life by working extremely long hours and living in company dorms that are attached to the factory. At least the company deemed them worthy of a bonus. That being nets around the buildings so they won't die when they attempt suicide.

  16. #796
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And if you can't find any other work?

    It's pretty ridiculous that some people, like yourself, assume that jobs are easy to come by and readily available to everyone.
    But bootstraps Endus...Bootstraps!

    If you work hard enough a new job with better pay will always be available.

    Coincidentally if you tell those same folks that people get terminated from those jobs with better pay and end up in low wage work they'll blame the worker as not being productive enough to keep the job. That if they weren't bad employees they would still have a job or another company would have offered them a contract to work for them....it's a complete disconnect from reality.

  17. #797
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And if you can't find any other work?

    It's pretty ridiculous that some people, like yourself, assume that jobs are easy to come by and readily available to everyone.
    ssh endus don't disrupt his 1990's economic bubble.
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  18. #798
    Rules for a successful US business with the rise of the minimum wage:

    1. Never hire full-time hourly workers, only salary. This way you can work salary workers 60 hours a week and only pay them the rate of someone who works 40 hours

    2. Part-time hourly workers are the future, dont have to give benefits, no minimum hours to give them a week, easy to find replacements.

    3. If your bottom line is too thin, fire people or reduce hourly workers' weekly hours. If there is too much work still, increase salary workers' hours. Dont even think about reducing the salary of executives by a penny.

    Welcome to Capitalism!

  19. #799
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I really doubt youre making minimum wage anyway as a baggage handler, and if you are, keep working hard and do better than everyone else and youll get a raise or promoted to a supervisory position. Another airline may even notice your hard work and offer you more than you make with the one youre working for now. People dont realize how few jobs actually pay minimum wage. Even fast food restaurants are paying $9/hour plus everywhere I see. And they ALL have help wanted signs in the restaurants. Many even give you help wanted flyers on your tray.
    .

    I do make more than min wage. I'm at my city's min wage of 10.10 which is higher than state and fed by $3. I have a cheap studio that is the cheapest I could find in commuting distance. I still struggle so I can't imagine what the min wage workers are going through
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  20. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    15$ by 2022.....yeah thats WAY TOO LOW. by then it will need to be 25$ per hour.
    Technically it SHOULD be 26+ if we are going to try abd get minimum wage to the power it once had

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