Raid nerf?

[Sageless]

I would like to see a nerf as well.

While we are 12/13 M now and most likely be able to kill Archimonde in the next couple of weeks, I do think a nerf would be nice for 2 reasons:

1). At 9 months into HFC and x months with valor most people will be geared fully. This means if you are stuck on something there is no additional gear that will help you and since anyone not already 13/13 M for 6+ months is not a world class player this will likely mean you will be stuck on that boss for the rest of the expansion unless you get a different raid group.
2). After 9 months of no new content players will drop out and replacing them is a pain. A gradual nerf would allow for easier recruitment or even doing more bosses with fewer players on Mythic or less capable players in general.

The above would be bad reasons when the raid is new, but after 9 months of this raid and 6 more to come I don't see the downside of this.

[Deleted]

I am in the kind of guild that was 2/7M HM and 2/10M in BRF, now 10M into HFC.

I personally would like a 5% nerf.

Do we deserve to kill mythic arch with our skill level?
Of course we do. If we do the mechanics, at our hours/week, with our skill level, why shouldn't we deserve it?
If I kill Mythic Arch in 2 xpacs time with 10 mates, do I deserve the loot that drops?

I know many of you were top 1-200 guilds, but the player base isn't heavily weighted to top end guilds. In fact, there's only about 15 guilds on my server (that haven't folded) that have any Mythic Progression, and a bunch still plugging away at Arch.

Nerfs pls - just a 5% boss HP nerf would be nice.

The boss is more than doable currently though. Top 10 guilds do it severely undergeared, without legendary rings, without 2/2 upgrades, without so many warforged items.

The amount of nerfs that came through gear is huge. If you can't down a boss, then it's not due to ilvl or low DPS. Higher ilvl or 5% nerf won't help a whole lot if you cannot already kill it with 50-100% more character power than world first guilds did.

You deserve to kill it once you actually kill it, it's that simple. There's nothing elitist in it. And farming it in next xpac for transmog, why the hell not? Every single old raid was treated this way (save for Naxx 40 which got removed after TBC, was still farmable in TBC tho), so why this should be any different? Transmog farming in old raids is a major source of content for many people, it would be incredibly dumb to deny this type content to the players. The mount will just get nerfed to low drop rate, like always.

[Spotnick]

Blizzard doesnt agree with you. Theyve stated many times that they dont want a Sunwell situation. DESERVE? Lol. Guilds breakup, me not killing has nothing to do with how hard the content has been but more of not being able to even have a raid team to go and make attempts. We finally merged with another guild and will most likely kill it this week.

Other players, that arent very good should have the chance to kill it. And end game content easier than HFC has been nerfed more than HFC has been.

Im not sure why you feel so strongly about it, why do you care if some more people clear Mythic on an easier level than what you did? Lol. You have issues...

Not a reply to me, but.. Sunwell only had one difficulty.

So the argument is kind of pointless.

For sake of argument.. how about giving people in 1k rating in arena a buff so they can get 2k rating and get their gladiator title? Well.. that's pretty much what raid nerfs do.

In long term, that's an even bigger issue, because people who clear mythic now think they can clear the content and will complain that the next tier is too hard, and I don't think it's good for the game..

Granted the problem here is that the tier lasts too long and should have been finished in December.

[Retsef]

@Djriff We raid something like 8 hours a week, 3 of which is optional - should be a 2/7 guild - and 5 which is farm+prog.

I don't take your reply as asshattish - you are allowed your opinions too
We are struggling on some fights, and outright failing on others. Fel Lord is a mystery to us (turns out no one can dodge waves when they have the debuff), but Tyrant is all-but on farm.
The few extra ilvls would put fel lord on farm and let us get into the hard fights. Our flat-out burn puts us at around 20% before the first seeds, so a little more would be a little more, ya know

@Esubane Top 10 guilds are top 10 for a reason
I am in a top 3000 guild for a reason


And yes, as Spotnick pointed out - the only reason it matters is the tier is going on too long.
I never expected, given a reasonable length tier, my guild should have got past Gorefiend Mythic.

[Djriff]

@Djriff We raid something like 8 hours a week, 3 of which is optional - should be a 2/7 guild - and 5 which is farm+prog.

8 hours is plenty. I don't understand the 2/7 thing though. Is that days of the week?

I don't take your reply as asshattish - you are allowed your opinions too
We are struggling on some fights, and outright failing on others. Fel Lord is a mystery to us (turns out no one can dodge waves when they have the debuff), but Tyrant is all-but on farm.
The few extra ilvls would put fel lord on farm and let us get into the hard fights. Our flat-out burn puts us at around 20% before the first seeds, so a little more would be a little more, ya know

Well I can be a bit blunt when i give advice.

How many healers are you running on fel lord? If you're pushing to just burn the boss and have no one go down, then 2 heal it if you aren't already. MW/Resto druid and a disc priest is plenty of healing.

Ironically we do 2 full mythic sales a week and tyrant still gives us problems >>

As for the extra ilvls, like I said above, if you're not 2 healing it, you should be if you're going for the burn strat. Otherwise just have groups going down and popping their boomstick CD's. Have a mage(hunter works too) stand in between the ranged/heals group and the boss to soak cavitation so people don't need to move and you can squeeze out more DPS. We've had some pulls where seeds just flat out didn't happen as we just happened to phase him at the perfect time.

[Retsef]

Yeah sorry, 2 days a week.
We 3 heal Fel I think, h-pal, disc, (druid or sham). It's not healing that gets us, it's people being bad and blowing up to seeds which one-shots the universe.

Me or another mage do the cavitation thing, that's all good.
That extra little bit would probably be enough to topple Fel lord over.

[Dracodraco]

Yeah sorry, 2 days a week.
We 3 heal Fel I think, h-pal, disc, (druid or sham). It's not healing that gets us, it's people being bad and blowing up to seeds which one-shots the universe.

Me or another mage do the cavitation thing, that's all good.
That extra little bit would probably be enough to topple Fel lord over.

His point was that if you burn (lust at start with 2x healers) you can likely skip the disarmed phase, meaning you'll get a single seed in P3 that every single raid CD can be used on, making the fight significantly easier :P

[Retsef]

That's a fair call.

1st full night on Xhul today, and we killed it.
Go figure.

[Djriff]

Wow, that's impressive. Nice job!

[Retsef]

Thanks, now to spend another week wiping on Fel Lord's Seeds after clearing everything else up to Manno

After Sunday night where we were on the verge of infighting over the Fel Lord debacle, to killing M-Xhul after a total of 32 wipes, it was highly refreshing.
Probably the highlight night of the tier so far for us. Just that massive swing of raid ability in 24 hours was crazy.

[Greylan]

Damn Retsef, sounds just like us (minus your impressively fast xhul kill) -- one week we can destroy all our farm and make great progress on a new boss, the next we wipe on kilrogg for 45 minutes out of nowhere.

On Topic: I don't want a nerf.

[Deleted]

I don't think top100 guilds would even realize any nerfs. One day per week for 1-3 hours (depending on lead deciding to torture people with complete clears :P) cleaning shit will stay the same. Some low % alc drinkers might realize they are still somewhat sober after a nerf but... well.

[Deleted]

That's a fair call.

1st full night on Xhul today, and we killed it.
Go figure.

We got him to 33% yday in 16 pulls. We did killed it earlier but it was 4 months ago. Been extending locks for ages for Mannorth.

This boss is a mess. Going back to it after a break that long, and with puggies (cos attendence boss striking) is painful. Last week we wiped few hours on Fel Lord as well.

Those fights are just not fun, when a single mishap causes an instantenous wipe. Idk, I preferred older xpac heroic fights where it was still recoverable once you knew how to handle stuff. Nowadays killing a boss feels more like a fluke of luck, than a proof of knowing everything about a fight =/ You go back to it next week and face a wipefest, just like progress.

[Adramelch]

We got him to 33% yday in 16 pulls. We did killed it earlier but it was 4 months ago. Been extending locks for ages for Mannorth.

This boss is a mess. Going back to it after a break that long, and with puggies (cos attendence boss striking) is painful. Last week we wiped few hours on Fel Lord as well.

Those fights are just not fun, when a single mishap causes an instantenous wipe. Idk, I preferred older xpac heroic fights where it was still recoverable once you knew how to handle stuff. Nowadays killing a boss feels more like a fluke of luck, than a proof of knowing everything about a fight =/ You go back to it next week and face a wipefest, just like progress.

Xhul or Fel Lord barely feel like a fluke of luck. It's probably the definition of performing properly as a whole, which I don't have a problem with (not to mention that even that isn't true with today's gear - you can still do a lot of mistakes and kill those bosses).

[Deleted]

We don't need more nerfs the development team should focus all on Legion tbh.

[Deja Thoris]

We don't need more nerfs the development team should focus all on Legion tbh.

yes, clicking boss health = -5% is a big time investment kappa.

[Dracodraco]

We got him to 33% yday in 16 pulls. We did killed it earlier but it was 4 months ago. Been extending locks for ages for Mannorth.

This boss is a mess. Going back to it after a break that long, and with puggies (cos attendence boss striking) is painful. Last week we wiped few hours on Fel Lord as well.

Those fights are just not fun, when a single mishap causes an instantenous wipe. Idk, I preferred older xpac heroic fights where it was still recoverable once you knew how to handle stuff. Nowadays killing a boss feels more like a fluke of luck, than a proof of knowing everything about a fight =/ You go back to it next week and face a wipefest, just like progress.

I don't know which heroic fights you used to do, but the entire point of the highest difficulty is that one fuckup can lead to an instantenous wipe. Fel lord fuckups aren't instantenous wipes either, you can survive someone fucking up a seed, it's just very very hurtful. Look back - one person fucking up with ice tombs on sindragosa? yea, entire raid just got tombed, instant wipe. Pretty much the best comparison to seeds because the mechanic is very similiar.

[Deleted]

HFC not need to be nerfed except Archimonde who should start to drop 2 mounts and lost like 5% HP who will make the fight more faceroll in 1st 2 phases allowing RLs to pick ppl with brain for progressing in phase 3 instead to stack mages in order to get the only 1 spirit fire
1 mount for 20 man was the biggest mistake done ever.Its totally screws me because i`m on the bench most of the time waiting my guild to finish the progress and ppl start to slack .Even if i kill Archimonde before Cutting fall of chance to get a mount will be close to zero for me

[Dracodraco]

HFC not need to be nerfed except Archimonde who should start to drop 2 mounts and lost like 5% HP who will make the fight more faceroll in 1st 2 phases allowing RLs to pick ppl with brain for progressing in phase 3 instead to stack mages in order to get the only 1 spirit fire
1 mount for 20 man was the biggest mistake done ever.Its totally screws me because i`m on the bench most of the time waiting my guild to finish the progress and ppl start to slack .Even if i kill Archimonde before Cutting fall of chance to get a mount will be close to zero for me

Mounts were originally 1 per kill in 25 man. It remained 1 per kill in 25 man for Firelands, then was changed to 2 for 25 in Dragon Soul and Siege of Orgrimmar because people complained that 10 man teams got all their mounts FAR quicker with a 1:1 mount ratio but a 1:2.5 player ratio. With 10 man gone, there's absolutely no reason the boss should drop multiple mounts. It's still quicker to get your mounts now than it was originally because rosters are smaller and it's still one drop per kill. If you can't farm the boss for 25 weeks, your entire guild isn't supposed to get the mount.

[Deleted]

I think the mount issue would be less common if people used some priorities for it. I bet most people don't care that much about mounts compared to some other people. It might help if guilds had a way to prioritize those that want it before others (possibly in unison with the gear loot system so it becomes fair) because the common tradition appears to be a flat "everyone wants it" but clearly not everyone wants it equally.