Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Donald Hellscream]

They don't even see the contract... they can download the custom client and play on their priv server without ever touching any agreement.

Just because they never touch it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Kirne]

If that is right or wrong is not for us to decide (or everyone on their own behalf), whats important is that "alot" of poeple want this kind of service and someone with a interest in money or with a certain passion for it will deliver, hosting it in countrys where its much more unlikely to get sued it just something logical after Blizzard had such an easy job on doing it in France, i hope all the best for that guy in Finland.

That's not important - wanting something doesn't make it either right or law compliant, and someone willing to deliver it is someone willing to do wrong and get sued, so it's not that much helpful either.
Logical would be to stop with this, not try again somewhere you think the laws are easier on you - it's wrong here, it's wrong in Finland, it's wrong anywhere.

And to decide if it's right or wrong, or if it should be lawful, you just need to ask yourself if you're ok with people stealing your work. Would you be OK with someone stealing the results of your work?

[Rehok]

eu law > finish law

Yeah thats what i thought but apprently the EU Law isn't applied in Finland for Copyright

[Deleted]

Just because they never touch it doesn't exist.

And? Do you undestand signing/not signing a contract?

[Deleted]

I hope it crashes and burns because it's quite fun to laugh at the vanilla boys, but whatever, I probably wouldn't play if their direction for the game was go back to vanilla. Moving to finland to dodge laws just proves you're doing something wrong, though.

Keep playing your piece of shit version of the game, moron.

[Tackhisis]

they can download the custom client and play on their priv server without ever touching any agreement.

Then they have obtained it illegally and don't have any right to use it at all.

[Deleted]

Thanks for supplying me with the answer to your statement.

You honestly doubt that most people who played on Nostalrius did so because of nostalgia? Do you think the huge amount of people that played there just happened to have heard of the server and thought "great, a free way to play the game, I mean it's 11 years old and nothing like retail, but this seems like the best way to play the game for free". Sure.

[Nosdrone]

Blizzard pruned Nostralius. Well done!

[arcaneshot]

And? Do you undestand signing/not signing a contract?

That usually involves you not retaining possession of the game client in question.

[Jaelian]

OK, here's the Finnish Copyright Act:

http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannok...en19610404.pdf

Section 25j allows you to reverse-engineer the client to your hearts content (among other things), as long as you bought it. Good.

Section 25k allows you to apply your knowledge of the client to make it interoperate with other programs, like your hand-made server. Good.

But there's 25k.2.3:

"The information obtained under the provisions of subsection 1 shall not, by virtue of these provisions: ... be used for the development, production or marketing of a computer program substantially similar in its expression, or for any other act which infringes copyright."

...and it all depends on how this is actually used. Yes, you aren't doing your own client, but you are doing your own server and you do this in order to make the client run "substantially similarly" to how it runs with regular servers, etc.

I don't know. I am skeptical (that it is OK to run a private server in Finland). But I might totally be missing something, so I'll wait and see.

25j 1 states:

Whoever has legally acquired a computer program may make such copies of the program and make such alterations to the program as are necessary for the use of the program for the intended purpose. This shall also apply to the correction of errors.

The intended purpose of any client or code created by Blizzard would be to connect to the live servers - not a private one.

If something is created in another country, then the law of that country applies as thats where the data was created and the company originates from iirc.

[Deleted]

This was always going to happen, and Blizzard is probably completely in the right from a legal point of view. Unfortunately these servers aren't just appealing to players who want to dodge the subscription but also to people who are dissatisfied with the direction Blizzard has taken a game they used to enjoy (and pay for!).

There aren't a lot of winners here.

[Donald Hellscream]

And? Do you undestand signing/not signing a contract?

Even though they never accepted the TOS they still don't have the right to use the material.

[rda]

Then they have obtained it illegally and don't have any right to use it at all.

No, no, no. Then Blizzard go against whoever created the custom client and sue them through the roof.

But, realistically, this will never happen. Nobody is going to bother creating a custom client for WoW.

[Loeko]

Hardly. One thing about Vanilla that people forget is there was content because you didn't just level a toon 1-60 in half a week like you can do today.

Nost was great because it felt like an mmo. You grouped for quests, you interacted with the community for instances. You started seeing familiar names as you leveled. An mmo should be about interactions with people.

Current wow, while having more "content" technically, feels like a flat thing. LFG and LFR and cross realm BGs, while useful, also kill any sense of community. Groups go from people you recognize, good and bad, to just nameless portraits you have to do the current instance / raid with.

Oddly enough, despite the quite different combat (bit slower, not as fluid), I still found it very fun. Classes felt unique too. Now, hopefully legion helps with that feeling, but I have doubts.

I understand why Blizz did it, but at the same time, it is disappointing. There are people who are fans of Vanilla, and will always be. it isn't just rose colored goggles. Some of us legit enjoyed the experience.

100% right.

[Akta]

I can't believe this thread has 146 pages..

An illegal private server was shut down because it was illegal, what's left to discuss? It doesn't matter whether or not we think it's the right thing to do, it happened because that's the law. I don't agree with marijuana use being largely illegal but I'm sure not gonna kick up a stink if I get arrested for using it.

If you so badly want to play Vanilla, then keep hounding Blizzard to operate their own servers. I'm sure they'll cave eventually, just like they did with server/faction/race changes. Really they're silly not to run their own Vanilla servers, the money they would bring in would be ludicrous.

cause it's alway blizzard fault even if they got robbed by a few nostalgic grown men

[Tackhisis]

If something is created in another country, then the law of that country applies as that’s where the data was created and the company originates from iirc.

No. When you offer your services to individual EU/CIS citizens, you have to comply with their local law, and it takes precedence over the legislation the company resides in.

[rda]

25j 1 states:

"Whoever has legally acquired a computer program may make such copies of the program and make such alterations to the program as are necessary for the use of the program for the intended purpose. This shall also apply to the correction of errors."

The intended purpose of any client or code created by Blizzard would be to connect to the live servers - not a private one.

I'd also note that in this case there's no need to modify the client to do that, because it already can connect to the live servers, you just have to pay for it.

[Deleted]

I hope Blizzard will see the potential within private servers

[Akta]

Hardly. One thing about Vanilla that people forget is there was content because you didn't just level a toon 1-60 in half a week like you can do today.

Nost was great because it felt like an mmo. You grouped for quests, you interacted with the community for instances. You started seeing familiar names as you leveled. An mmo should be about interactions with people.

Current wow, while having more "content" technically, feels like a flat thing. LFG and LFR and cross realm BGs, while useful, also kill any sense of community. Groups go from people you recognize, good and bad, to just nameless portraits you have to do the current instance / raid with.

Oddly enough, despite the quite different combat (bit slower, not as fluid), I still found it very fun. Classes felt unique too. Now, hopefully legion helps with that feeling, but I have doubts.

I understand why Blizz did it, but at the same time, it is disappointing. There are people who are fans of Vanilla, and will always be. it isn't just rose colored goggles. Some of us legit enjoyed the experience.

No one would play a game like this anymore...

[Toxigen]

Hardly. One thing about Vanilla that people forget is there was content because you didn't just level a toon 1-60 in half a week like you can do today.

Nost was great because it felt like an mmo. You grouped for quests, you interacted with the community for instances. You started seeing familiar names as you leveled. An mmo should be about interactions with people.

Current wow, while having more "content" technically, feels like a flat thing. LFG and LFR and cross realm BGs, while useful, also kill any sense of community. Groups go from people you recognize, good and bad, to just nameless portraits you have to do the current instance / raid with.

Oddly enough, despite the quite different combat (bit slower, not as fluid), I still found it very fun. Classes felt unique too. Now, hopefully legion helps with that feeling, but I have doubts.

I understand why Blizz did it, but at the same time, it is disappointing. There are people who are fans of Vanilla, and will always be. it isn't just rose colored goggles. Some of us legit enjoyed the experience.

Well said, and let me stress the aspect of actually playing within a community. Something retail hasn't had for a LONG time.

- - - Updated - - -

No one would play a game like this anymore...

Oh, but they do. There are some quality gamers still left within this mostly shit-infested "community." Modernized MMO gamers are just as bad the retail developers themselves.