Mythic Challenges in Legion

[Raiju]

tell that to all melee who nxt to nobody will be willing to take into higher difficulties of those my wild guess it will be something like hunter-mage/shammy-lock all the way as most seeked dps combo but i guess it will dpeend on fotms etc

I mean currently it's enha/enha/hunter as an ideal comp for a lot of them - 2 melee.

[cFortyfive]

tell that to all melee who nxt to nobody will be willing to take into higher difficulties of those my wild guess it will be something like hunter-mage/shammy-lock all the way as most seeked dps combo but i guess it will dpeend on fotms etc

Well I am not the one advocating for those small and ridiculously unbalanced formats so...:P

[Natiry427]

If Blizzard executes this correctly with enough diverse tune up mechanics, this has potential to be one of the greatest additions not only to WoW, but to MMO history. Mark my words.

[Deleted]

Meh.

My biggest fear with these is that the gear will be relevant for raiding progression and hence I'll need to do them weekly. Which in itself isn't that bad, but it will end up working the same way CM's do atm: some specs will be OP and others crap. So how do the crap specs / classes ever get to the good gear -.-

What's more selling gear boosts in mythic dungeons is probably going to be a pretty big thing, not sure if I like it or not but there we go.

This makes absolutely 0 sense.

You are a raider?

IF you really are a raider you will be used to everyone not doing the same dps. That doesnt mean they halt progression or that its the same person doing most dps on every boss like it used to be in previous expansions.

There might be a few specs that fare 5-10% better then the others overall but the balance is so good these days that every single spec is going to be perfectly viable for this,

God i'm tired of these whiners whining about everything. Must be hell living with them

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Sounds dogshit but I am going to test it anyways.

Don't think fans of those formats care all too much for balance.

Why are you saying that?

Fans of the 5 man format?

You are going to see the best people on every server competing for top ranks in these.

I dont think you actually know how this game works lol

[Malvesti]

Very excited about this!

I do wonder currently about tuning difficulty vs. gear awarded vs. gear awarded elsewhere. It would be unfortunate if the best way to get to the top of the ladder of M+ dungeons was to have mythic raid loot. And I suppose mythic raiders would hate it if it became essential to farm M+ dungeon gear to get raiding ilvl boost (as someone already pointed out above).

There's a few ways you could force a fix on this, modeled after the PVP ilvl systems--e.g. a "Mythic Raid"-flagged item behaves as a "Heroic Raid" item while in dungeons dungeons, and a "M+ Dungeon"-flagged item behaves as a "Heroic Dungeon"-flagged item while in raids. (Edit: even that wouldn't fix issues involving set bonuses or trinkets that drop in one place but not the other.) But I expect this would be overly cumbersome and contrived and they won't do it. I expect it will remain a difficult balancing challenge that will leave some folks unhappy--"forcing" some set of people to do content other than their preferred content for the gear advantage.

[Summer]

This makes absolutely 0 sense.

You are a raider?

IF you really are a raider you will be used to everyone not doing the same dps. That doesnt mean they halt progression or that its the same person doing most dps on every boss like it used to be in previous expansions.

There might be a few specs that fare 5-10% better then the others overall but the balance is so good these days that every single spec is going to be perfectly viable for this,

God i'm tired of these whiners whining about everything. Must be hell living with them

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Why are you saying that?

Fans of the 5 man format?

You are going to see the best people on every server competing for top ranks in these.

I dont think you actually know how this game works lol

5-10 %? You must be joking right? The differences are much larger than that. In burst AoE which is what will probably matter most here is WAY more than 5-10 %, some specs do like three times the dps others can pull. How on earth can you say that balance is "so good" these days? Yes in raids most classes have some utility or niche that will earn them a spot in the roster but this will not translate to 5 man comps in dungeons of all things.

Of course all specs will be viable as in they can complete the dungeon withing the time limit. But some will have much easier time reaching the higher difficulties which will award better gear. Exactly the same way as CM's work atm, there's good comps and bad comps. Would you say that any 3 dps specs are perfectly viable to break speed records in CM's atm?

If you don't like reading opinions that are different than yours then just ignore them but crying about whiners just seems immature.

[Adramelch]

Very excited about this!

I do wonder currently about tuning difficulty vs. gear awarded vs. gear awarded elsewhere. It would be unfortunate if the best way to get to the top of the ladder of M+ dungeons was to have mythic raid loot. And I suppose mythic raiders would hate it if it became essential to farm M+ dungeon gear to get raiding ilvl boost (as someone already pointed out above).

There's a few ways you could force a fix on this, modeled after the PVP ilvl systems--e.g. a "Mythic Raid"-flagged item behaves as a "Heroic Raid" item while in dungeons dungeons, and a "M+ Dungeon"-flagged item behaves as a "Heroic Dungeon"-flagged item while in raids. (Edit: even that wouldn't fix issues involving set bonuses or trinkets that drop in one place but not the other.) But I expect this would be overly cumbersome and contrived and they won't do it. I expect it will remain a difficult balancing challenge that will leave some folks unhappy--"forcing" some set of people to do content other than their preferred content for the gear advantage.

Honestly, while I understand where people are coming from with such complains, it really shouldn't matter. They're both PvE activities so it's not illogical that they affect each other.

It would be nice if the sets however remain more powerful within their context (ie having raid sets be BiS in dungeons and vice versa suck)

[Spryte]

My guild and I are pretty unhappy about the removal of real Challenge Modes. Not really sure why they couldn't have kept the current challenge mode format and just added these mythic dungeons as well. It was the only content we enjoyed outside of Mythic Raiding, and selling boosts was a really good source of income. Maybe these new mythic challenges will be good, but with gear not being scaled down, I think most people will just end up outgearing it. Only time will tell...

[Deleted]

Really excited about it as a non raider it is cool, as I prefers 5 man content when I do pve (from time to time)

[cFortyfive]

Why are you saying that?

Fans of the 5 man format?

You are going to see the best people on every server competing for top ranks in these.

I dont think you actually know how this game works lol

No idea what you want especially the "best people" don't care about balance because they will roll the best classes anyways.

[bicycle]

If Blizzard executes this correctly with enough diverse tune up mechanics, this has potential to be one of the greatest additions not only to WoW, but to MMO history. Mark my words.

It's a way to recycle 5man content for longer. That's it.

[Ornerybear]

i'm really hoping this will be a parallel progression to mythic raiding as i enjoy challenging dungeons more than hardcore raiding (plus i never seem to find a good raiding guild witha schedule i can commit to.)

[Tharkkun]

My guild and I are pretty unhappy about the removal of real Challenge Modes. Not really sure why they couldn't have kept the current challenge mode format and just added these mythic dungeons as well. It was the only content we enjoyed outside of Mythic Raiding, and selling boosts was a really good source of income. Maybe these new mythic challenges will be good, but with gear not being scaled down, I think most people will just end up outgearing it. Only time will tell...

The current challenge modes are dumb. Play the entire expansion and progress your character. Zone into a challenge mode, ask your friend to kick you in the balls and then try and complete it. It's completely backwards.

People will eventually hit a gear wall and those keys will continue to get stronger. So at that point you'll be left with player skill just like in Challenge modes. Unlike current Challenge modes you won't have to spend weeks farming that perfect drop from the start of the expansion in order to do them.

[Deleted]

I like that they removed the buffs because while it was a non issue in raiding, it was a clunky mechanic in 5mans because you might end up missing 3 buffs or having 9 buffs, depended on what you have. I would prefer if challenge modes had a non-timed version, even if it had to be harder, because for me personally this game doesn't fit well with time constraints in PvE, or at least that's how I feel personally about it.

[Demeter]

Its something good to look forward to, I will miss the timed runs though although it brought out the worst in people trying to get realm first times caused a lot of nasty behavior like cheesing the system or abusing mechanics. Hopefully Legions CMs will be as great as they sound.

[satimy]

Not a blood dk.....dropped
Don't have insane aoe.....dropped


If classes are as unbalanced as on live, which they will probably be worse because of artifacts these mythics will be a travesty

[Adramelch]

Not a blood dk.....dropped
Don't have insane aoe.....dropped


If classes are as unbalanced as on live, which they will probably be worse because of artifacts these mythics will be a travesty

Honestly, there's so much you can do to balance 5mans without making the classes identical. One way to approach it, however, is make sure that the bosses themselves are not pushovers (which is what typically happens now) and have some sort of tight enrage mechanic that requires a certain amount of proper single target DPS, but even then you'll still have similar issues (for instance on live Enha has godly AoE burst, but it's not as if they are bad in ST, they're just not the best).

In any case, since afaik there will be a cap lootwise (you want be getting higher ilvl items from some difficulty onwards), I see the dungeons being doable with whatever comp and after that point you'll need to have FotM classes more and more. Which honestly, seems fine to me. That's how the game works in all levels (ie ranked PvP, raiding, current CMs and so on) and that's how most MMOs I've played in the past also work.

PS: You say "not a blood dk" dropped etc, but that's in pugging. If you're in a guild (or built some sort of community through bnet friendships) that won't happen (as much), which I'm fine with. The game should have a way to push people towards socializing and building communities.

[Raiju]

Not a blood dk.....dropped
Don't have insane aoe.....dropped


If classes are as unbalanced as on live, which they will probably be worse because of artifacts these mythics will be a travesty

People don't bring specs due to insane aoe necessarily right now, although the tools used are being removed in legion.

Also if you've looked at the dungeons, I'd say you're wrong on both counts right now. BDK's are in a terrible spot - you want a bear generally, and aoe is less important due to affixes and the 45min timer.

[Deleted]

Don't worry about balance yet, alpha is alpha. Those things change every patch. Even during live they change.

[Adramelch]

aoe is less important due to affixes and the 45min timer.

Yeah I reckon the affixes will have specific classes counter-acting them, and with affixes being a weekly thing, you'd think (whether that will happen is sth to be seen) that all classes will get their time in the sun. For example:

Tyrannical - Bosses have significantly more health and damage. - Makes ST classes stronger for the most part (although it depends on the boss mechanics)
Skittish - Tanks generate much less threat. - Hinders burst AoE classes I would imagine
Raging - Non-boss enemies will enrage at low health, dealing double damage until killed. - Boosts execute classes

and so on.