Are we the average raider? better? worse?

[HumbleDuck]

Well, the fact that you are still raiding together at this stage of the xpac means you are good, so you should keep on to your members. In my realm almost all old school raiding guilds have collapsed.
In terms of performance, if you have been raiding since the opening of HFC, I think you are on the lower end of "raiding" guilds. Many guilds on wowprogress are socials who tend to raid every now and then. So yea, performance wise you have a lot to work on.

[meian]

Eh, we're 10/13 there's a pile of caveats to that. We didn't start mythic until September due to recruitment. We raid 2 nights per week. In those two nights we durdle around a lot and maybe see 2-3 hours of progression per week. So, yeah. Pretty casual. Still trying to talk them out of doing Lower but it hasn't happened yet. -.-

[Osmeric]

Well, the fact that you are still raiding together at this stage of the xpac means you are good, so you should keep on to your members. In my realm almost all old school raiding guilds had been collapsed.
In terms of performance, if you have been raiding since the opening of HFC, I think you are on the lower end of "raiding" guilds. Many guilds on wowprogress are socials who tend to raid every now and then. So yea, performance wise you have a lot to work on.

This is hilarious. First LFR was defined to not be raiding, and now normal and heroic modes players aren't considered to be raiding.

[HumbleDuck]

This is hilarious. First LFR was defined to not be raiding, and now normal and heroic modes players aren't considered to be raiding.

That is why I used "".

[Djriff]

To me LFR is definitely not raiding. Normal and above? Yeah definitely raiding.

[Incredimage]

This is hilarious. First LFR was defined to not be raiding, and now normal and heroic modes players aren't considered to be raiding.

LFR isn't raiding because it requires no coordination or individual ability but instead shuttles you along from boss to boss handing you loot. The only boss I would even think to consider as an exception to this is LFR Archimonde who is actually harder than several Normal bosses (though that isn't saying much.) I think you could consider Normal and Heroic to be raiding but it's not really the same as Mythic raiding in difficulty or required coordination. However I think calling Normal/Heroic difficulties anything other than raiding is disingenuous since that would be like calling Molten Core not a raid when guilds were clearing BWL during Vanilla or SSC/TK weren't raids when guilds were downing Illidan in BC.

On that note, where is the line drawn on Cutting Edge raiding guilds? What do you call the next wave? I'd say any guilds that downed Archimone before ilvl upgrades are in the top 2 tiers of raiding guilds and anything after that falls into another category.

[Sylvaeres]

To me LFR is definitely not raiding. Normal and above? Yeah definitely raiding.

I wouldn't call normal versions of raids real raiding. I've been hosting 13/13n full clears since the 3rd week of release in pugs. Heroic Reaver is harder than all of normal HFC

[Djriff]

I wouldn't call normal versions of raids real raiding. I've been hosting 13/13n full clears since the 3rd week of release in pugs. Heroic Reaver is harder than all of normal HFC

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Don't forget that the only difference between normal/heroic use to just be damage and health, before they removed certain mechanics.

[Sylvaeres]

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Don't forget that the only difference between normal/heroic use to just be damage and health, before they removed certain mechanics.

100%. But normal was a very toned down form of the raids. I feel like there's a pretty big jump on difficulty from normal to heroic, and this is pre-nerf. After the nerf it basically became roll over content. Normal pre-nerf was simply too forgiving when it came to failed mechanics, which led me to not being much of a fan of it beyond gearing for trinkets and tier

[Osmeric]

100%. But normal was a very toned down form of the raids. I feel like there's a pretty big jump on difficulty from normal to heroic, and this is pre-nerf. After the nerf it basically became roll over content. Normal pre-nerf was simply too forgiving when it came to failed mechanics, which led me to not being much of a fan of it beyond gearing for trinkets and tier

Are you talking about HM/BRF, or HFC? The feeling I get is they toned down normal mode a bit in HFC due to the poor reception it had in the previous tier from its intended audience.

[Djriff]

100%. But normal was a very toned down form of the raids. I feel like there's a pretty big jump on difficulty from normal to heroic, and this is pre-nerf. After the nerf it basically became roll over content. Normal pre-nerf was simply too forgiving when it came to failed mechanics, which led me to not being much of a fan of it beyond gearing for trinkets and tier

Well since normal is suppose to be real raiding, and is still an introduction of sorts, more so than LFR, it can be more forgiving. What ilvl were you when normal started? I was 702 just coming from Mythic BRF so normal was a joke to me at the time.

[Fayenoor]

It is all about perspective.
If there was any raider percentile matrix, I would do this --

(Number of people who killed the toughest boss you have killed) / ( Number of people who killed HSA Normal) * 100.

That's where you stand as a raider.

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Well since normal is suppose to be real raiding, and is still an introduction of sorts, more so than LFR, it can be more forgiving. What ilvl were you when normal started? I was 702 just coming from Mythic BRF so normal was a joke to me at the time.

You will be surprised at how many people really struggle with Normal Archi still with a 702 ilevel.

[Djriff]

You will be surprised at how many people really struggle with Normal Archi still with a 702 ilevel.

Oh I'm well aware. I pug archi 5 times a week, the amount of people that underperform and still don't understand the mechanics is mind boggling.

[Deleted]

Fucking feels that way, so damn difficult to recruit people these days.

you obviously have a bad recruiter. i got a guild that had 2/12 in ToT with no hope of getting much further into a guild that had 12/12 down in the next 8 weeks, on a low/medium population realm & a similar amount of time to clear terrace.
ive got guilds up from scratch even before that. it just takes patience & a willing not to accept less than what you want to achieve.
im sure if i could do it back then, you must be able to do it now.

[Sylvaeres]

Are you talking about HM/BRF, or HFC? The feeling I get is they toned down normal mode a bit in HFC due to the poor reception it had in the previous tier from its intended audience.

I'm mainly speaking on HFC. I didn't really raid much in the other tiers. Super casually is the best way I could put it.

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Well since normal is suppose to be real raiding, and is still an introduction of sorts, more so than LFR, it can be more forgiving. What ilvl were you when normal started? I was 702 just coming from Mythic BRF so normal was a joke to me at the time.

I came into the content at like 695 or so, but I geared up fairly quick. I ran 1 Random reserve runs so I got my tier bonuses and some trinkets within the first 3 or so weeks. Class trink took me 8 sadly

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It is all about perspective.
If there was any raider percentile matrix, I would do this --

(Number of people who killed the toughest boss you have killed) / ( Number of people who killed HSA Normal) * 100.

That's where you stand as a raider.

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You will be surprised at how many people really struggle with Normal Archi still with a 702 ilevel.

702 with brf tier isn't so bad. 702 with no set bonuses on the other hand...

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Oh I'm well aware. I pug archi 5 times a week, the amount of people that underperform and still don't understand the mechanics is mind boggling.

I host 3 normal arch kills per week for ring upgrades and guildies if you play US side

[Djriff]

I came into the content at like 695 or so, but I geared up fairly quick. I ran 1 Random reserve runs so I got my tier bonuses and some trinkets within the first 3 or so weeks. Class trink took me 8 sadly

That's not bad either, only a little below where I was at. I was above the intended ilvl for HFC normal, but the tier was worth it so we did it and heroic as a guild. Lower HFC was a breeze, however upper did give us some problems initially.

I host 3 normal arch kills per week for ring upgrades and guildies if you play US side

If you're alliance I'd be happy to join. Shoot me a PM with your btag.

[Fang7986]

http://www.wowprogress.com/

http://www.wowprogress.com/encounter...assault-normal

At the moment, 45,409 guilds tracked by wowprogress have downed N HFA. So, you're in the top 10% of all "raiding guilds" in the world.

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Yeah no, that's bullshit. Nowhere close to that many were "mythic raiders".

No where close to that for raiders total across all difficulties

[Spotnick]

I wouldn't call normal versions of raids real raiding. I've been hosting 13/13n full clears since the 3rd week of release in pugs. Heroic Reaver is harder than all of normal HFC

Now you're pushing it, normal IS raiding it requires coordination. Granted I didn't really do it since they removed mechanics, but it's not something you can do without a raid leader. Plus not really sure so many pugs killed normal Archimonde so fast, he was harder than most of the heroic bosses from what I remember of last June.

I could argue some bosses of LFR could be considered as raiding (Lei Shen comes to mind) because it required coordination, but the stacks of determination kind of remove that claim.

[Sylvaeres]

Now you're pushing it, normal IS raiding it requires coordination. Granted I didn't really do it since they removed mechanics, but it's not something you can do without a raid leader. Plus not really sure so many pugs killed normal Archimonde so fast, he was harder than most of the heroic bosses from what I remember of last June.

I could argue some bosses of LFR could be considered as raiding (Lei Shen comes to mind) because it required coordination, but the stacks of determination kind of remove that claim.

I agree to a point. But take Fel Lord for example. On normal, the waves don't matter. Heroic, whole different story

[cFortyfive]

We are as of last night 9/13M in HFC. That makes us the number 4000-4500 guilld in the west, or is it world?

According to that info, are we the average raiding group in terms of performance? are we better or worse than the average raiding group.

I want to put some perspective into our performance.

you are obviously better. Doesn't really mean anything though considering how bad the average is.