[SURVIVAL]Legion Alpha Discussion

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

That's what I was wondering about. Just don't want to get shoe horned into a spec because it's the best/most fine tuned of the others. My guild is pretty lenient about what's brought to the group, however, if it can't push the numbers for progression or farm then forget about it. I'd just like for the spec to be decent and something that could be brought. So far, doesnt look like it.

I figure a LOT of us will experiment with SV as one of our two specs. The other can be whichever appears to be most competitive. Just the novelty of having both a ranged and melee spec on the same toon will make it worth using one of your specs on SV, to may way of thinking anyway.

[Azortharion]

Probably not as much as I wait for your post where you show your mighty knowledge that no one can argue about.

By the way @Nakauri, there is an easy situation where someone would play Survival over Marksmanship. It's because they prefer to play it and they want to play a melee hunter instead of a ranged.

Oh and Azortharion, you can be as sarcastic as you want, and say all that you want, the point is, we have different opinions, and even if it's something that you find hard to believe, your opinion is not always the right one.

In the end, I don't give a fuck since for me the spec is on the good way and the most important, I'm having a lot of fun with it.

Oh, and DarklingThrush, I'm leveling as Survival and level 107 at the moment. 0 problems.

Listen, there's really no such thing as an "opinion" about objective truths. You are wrong because it can be PROVEN, not because I personally think you are wrong. The fact that you are wrong about Way of the Mok'nathal, and the notion that Survival is not focus starved, is an irrefutable truth.

If you can't produce a proper argument (something you learn before highschool) then please get the fuck out of the forum. Twisting objective truths around and forming your own (wrong) opinions about them has been seen before. It's shitposting.

See this post for specifics on why you're wrong: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post39371930

[Huggykaze]

See this post for specifics on why you're wrong: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post39371930

You didn't take Mongoose Bite into account there I think. Even without procs or Snake Hunter it's 4.5s of free DPS every 30 seconds, if used at 3 charges. With his 12Fps, it's ~1.8Fps saved throughout 30s period. If he dropped Throwing Axes from the rotation, he'd have some Focus to spare in theory. Well ofc dropping TA and not taking Mok'nathal seems like a bad idea. Just want to point out your proof was incomplete and that you should chill out, being rude is not the same as being smart. Instead you discourage people from any kind of discussion.

[Azortharion]

Except Mongoose Bite is not completely free, because the optimal play is to focus cap while spamming Mongoose Bite about once a minute, and then it's not really "free" DPS. You can't just take the time spent Mongoose Biting throughout a fight and call it 100% free time spent because a lot of it will be when you're wasting focus rather than giving you a surplus. If focus had no cap but started at 100 then Mongoose Bite would indeed be 100% free and you'd only ever gain focus when casting it back-to-back, but your pool is limited and your rotation is slow.

Even if this was the case and you gained focus for 100% of the time not spent spending any (what a sentence), with 0 haste you'd only gain 15 focus (1.5s GCD) per 10 seconds (if we just use mongoose bite on cooldown, either way it's the same thing) or 1.5fps which is not even close to dropping the ~15 fps spendage to about 10.

So while I'll concede that the proof was less than perfect, it is by no means incorrect which is all that matters. If you have a problem with my posts then report them instead of whining about it.

Your sentence "ofc dropping TA and not taking Mok'Nathal seems like a bad idea" confused me.
1) You wouldn't drop TA for Animal Instincts.
2) You prolly wouldn't drop it for WoTMN either, even if you did that'd just increase your spending.


Let's redo math with 0 haste for simplicity:

You need to Raptor Strike every 15s, 30 focus per 15s or 2 per second.
Flanking Strike every 6 seconds for 50 focus, 8.33 focus per second.
Laceration every 12 seconds for 35 focus, 2.92 focus per second.
Throwing Axes every 15 seconds for 15 focus, 1 focus per second.

10 passive regen per second.
1.5 FPS through Mongoose Bite

So 11.5 FPS gained to 14.25 focus per second needed to execute.

If you discount a bit for bad play (and trust me, 99% of people will play badly just like with MM today) and Mongoose Bite's total return to you being limited by your focus cap during cooldown periods, we're still talking a super sizable gap. Throwing Axes is just 1 focus per second, so it wouldn't close it in the slightest.

Now I could be missing something, enlighten me if so.

[Deleted]

Reasonable to assume any major changes to the spec are out of the question yet? Would anyone in the alpha play the spec on live as is?

[Deleted]

Reasonable to assume any major changes to the spec are out of the question yet? Would anyone in the alpha play the spec on live as is?

Me - fuck no. It kinda remind me to vanilla - there was same specs but not all of them was good enough in pve and noone will took you in raid with such spec if the raid isnt on farm mode.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Reasonable to assume any major changes to the spec are out of the question yet? Would anyone in the alpha play the spec on live as is?

Blood DKs just got some significant changes, so nothing is out of the question. All specs are still works in progress.

[Deleted]

Blood DKs just got some significant changes, so nothing is out of the question. All specs are still works in progress.

Well this build a lot of specs got close to 0 changes but i remember they changed steady focus in WoD beta so there is always room for changes just not a basic stuff.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Well this build a lot of specs got close to 0 changes but i remember they changed steady focus in WoD beta so there is always room for changes just not a basic stuff.

My primary toons for Legion will probably be my Blood DK and my Hunter. So I'm following the DK debate as well. I'll just share this as an example of what's possible, even at this point. The changes for DK were significant:

"•Bloodworms When Death Strikes heals you above your maximum health, you Your auto attack critical strikes have a chance to summon a Bloodworm. Bloodworms deal minor damage to your target for 6 sec and then burst, healing you for 30% of the excess Death Strike healing. If you drop below 0% 20% of your missing health. If you drop below 50% health, your Bloodworms will immediately burst and heal you. Blood Death Knight - Level 15 Talent.
•Exsanguinate Name changed from "Consume Vitality" to "Exsanguinate". Drains 0 health from the target over 5 3 sec. You can move, parry, and dodge while channeling this ability. Blood Death Knight - Level 15 Talent. 2 Runes. 20 yd range. 5 1 Runes. 30 yd range. 3 sec cast (Channeled). 30 sec cooldown.
•Foul Bulwark Each charge of Bone Shield increases your maximum health by 3%. Blood Death Knight - Level 90 Talent. 60 sec cooldown.
•March of the Damned (New) Wraith Walk lasts 50% longer and breaks stun, snare, and root effects when cast. Blood Death Knight - Level 75 Talent.
•Mark of Blood Places a Mark of Blood on the enemy. The enemy's damaging attacks will also heal their victim for 4% of maximum health, doubled if the caster is the victim. Lasts 20 sec or up to 20 hits. Blood Death Knight - Level 60 90 Talent. Melee range. Instant. 3 min cooldown.
•Ossuary (New) While you have at least 6 Bone Shield charges, the cost of Death Strike is reduced by 5 Runic Power. Blood Death Knight - Level 30 Talent.
•Rapid Decomposition Your Death and Decay deals 25% more damage to targets infected by Blood Plague, and generates 1 Runic Power when it deals damage damage 50% more often, and while in your Death and Decay you generate 10% more Runic Power. Blood Death Knight - Level 30 Talent.
•Red Thirst Vampiric Blood instantly energizes one Rune, and increases your Runic Power generation by 10% for its duration Spending Runic Power will decrease the remaining cooldown on Vampiric Blood by 2 sec per 10 Runic Power. Blood Death Knight - Level 45 Talent.
•Soul Reaper Strike an enemy for (150% of weapon damage) Physical damage. After 5 sec, up to 5 Festering Wounds on the target will burst. You gain 3% Haste per Festering Wound burst, lasting 15 sec and afflicting them with Soul Reaper for 5 sec. Bursting a Festering Wound on an enemy afflicted by Soul Reaper grants 3% Haste, stacking up to 3 times. Unholy Death Knight - Level 100 Talent. 1 Runes. Melee range. Instant. 45 sec cooldown.
•Tightening Grasp Reduces the cooldown on Gorefiend's Grasp by 60 sec, and your Death and Decay also reduces the movement speed of enemies within its radius by 50%. Blood Death Knight - Level 75 Talent. 60 sec cooldown.
•Tombstone (New) Consume all Bone Shield charges. For each charge consumed, you gain 3 Runic Power and absorb damage equal to 4% of your maximum health for 8 sec. Blood Death Knight - Level 60 Talent. Instant. 60 sec cooldown.
•Volatile Shielding Your Anti-Magic Shell turns your enemies' pathetic magic against them, absorbing 65% 35% more damage, but generating no Runic Power. When it expires, 100% of all damage absorbed is dealt as Arcane damage divided among nearby enemies. Frost Death Knight - Level 75 Talent.
•Will of the Necropolis Reduce all damage taken by 20% while your health is below 35% or from any attack which would reduce you below 35%. Blood Death Knight - Level 90 Talent."
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/

[Deleted]

My primary toons for Legion will probably be my Blood DK and my Hunter. So I'm following the DK debate as well. I'll just share this as an example of what's possible, even at this point. The changes for DK were significant:

One can hope. At least Unholy looks like a good spec, but "class fantasy" wise I'd much prefer maining Survival. I'd be more optimistic if the spec didn't get insignificant changes (traps lol xD) every new build. Seems more like tweaking than overhauling right now.

[Deleted]

.

Still it isnt a small company, they should have own team for each class or something like this, not 10 ppl only, fixing all classes at same time.

[Eapoe]

I don't really want to play in the vein of WW monk or Rogue, but it seems like SV would be a lot smoother if they gave us a CP type system or reduced focus costs (a tiny bit, nothing drastic), or even just give SV a larger focus cap. Something that small in the design process could perhaps make the spec a lot better in terms of q raiding spot.

[Deleted]

Few surv questions... why is most attacks slashes, when in reality, spears most deadly attack is thrusting. And is the Artifact ability a placeholder? Because it look's like a really bad version of fist of fury. Also spamming mongoose 6 times in a row feels odd. Otherwise I love it!

[Deleted]

Found the changes to current tier set in the prepatch changes. Might be old news but havent seen them posted here.

(2 Pieces) (Survival) Your Lacerate exposes Open Wounds on the target increasing all physical damage you do to the target by 15% for 5 sec sec.

(4 Pieces) (Survival) Your Mongoose Bite has a 50% chance to reset the cooldown of Lacerate.

[Koochulu]

Oggy, any news on the Archi trinket for surv?

[Deleted]

Oggy, any news on the Archi trinket for surv?

Nothing changed in the database so far.

[Vicarys]

So... My question is about weapons and dual-wielding, specially while leveling.
Until Wrath, Hunters could dw and equip almost every weapon types, as far as I remember hammers, swords and staves were the only exceptions. Is SV made to be only a 2 handed spec because of the artifact spear or is it possible to level dual-wielding effectively? Any passive skills that improves only 2h damage like Might of Frozen Wastes? Skills that works differently for 2h and DW like live/Pre-Legion Frost DKs?

[Garfurion]

So... My question is about weapons and dual-wielding, specially while leveling.
Until Wrath, Hunters could dw and equip almost every weapon types, as far as I remember hammers, swords and staves were the only exceptions. Is SV made to be only a 2 handed spec because of the artifact spear or is it possible to level dual-wielding effectively? Any passive skills that improves only 2h damage like Might of Frozen Wastes? Skills that works differently for 2h and DW like live/Pre-Legion Frost DKs?

Currently, most melee abilities of SV require a two-handed weapon. You can still equip two 1h weapons but you won't be able to fight with them.

[Deleted]

So... My question is about weapons and dual-wielding, specially while leveling.
Until Wrath, Hunters could dw and equip almost every weapon types, as far as I remember hammers, swords and staves were the only exceptions. Is SV made to be only a 2 handed spec because of the artifact spear or is it possible to level dual-wielding effectively? Any passive skills that improves only 2h damage like Might of Frozen Wastes? Skills that works differently for 2h and DW like live/Pre-Legion Frost DKs?

And you remember it wrong. Hunters cant use only maces.

[Firebyrd]

And you remember it wrong. Hunters cant use only maces.

Also, you're remembering very wrong when it stopped. MoP was when the game stopped having separate ranged and melee slots. We definitely had melee weapons in both Wrath and Cata.