Latin America not a part of the West???

[Artorius]

How many countries in latin american countries have what you consider an acceptable level of corruption? Realize, you live in brazil. They do not have an acceptable level of corruption. So don't include your country.

I don't really know where you want to get with this argument when a lot of European countries and the US itself are ridiculously corrupt.

Yes, our country is currently being run by a mindless party that literally broke it in the past 12 years because they know how to manipulate lower classes to gain votes way too well. Brazil is currently trying to fight it, we want to overthrow the current government and it won't really take long the way it's going, we've also been arresting a lot of corrupt politicians in the last year as the investigations progressed.

Yes they probably made the biggest money robbery from the sate in history of humanity but it's not going to end well for them.

[Raamm]

I've noticed that many individuals don't realize that Latin America is a part of the West and Western culture? From a John Oliver-Donald Trump response video about Mexicans "threatening" the European culture of America to conversations with different people across the internet, there's definitely a minority of people that do not realize that Latin America is a part of the West or choose to categorize it separate. Why do you think there is ignorance on Latin America being a part of the West?

The Spanish didn't take their women with them like the English settlers so they ended up brown aka not white/western. Also they don't have nearly the same quality of life as the U.S Canada Australia Europe Japan and South Korea do.

Also they have some pretty solidly fucked ideas about who is black in Brazil for example if you're African and not poor in Brazil you aren't considered black. I don't know if that is progressive or regressive or simply fucked. I did research in my Political Science class trying to define western countries from non-western. The only ones that are widely accepted that aren't white are Japan, South Korea, and Hong-Kong which was kinda debatable. The closest new country to being considered western recently was Turkey but, with repeated denials of their application to join the EU and the suicide bombings plus the whole most terrorists being muslim thing they're not really in the running anymore.

[Independent voter]

*sigh*
It's nice to have a belief.

It's from the Economist, maybe the best business media source in the world.

[Noradin]

It's from the Economist, maybe the best business media source in the world.

So you don't even have your own?

[Deleted]

The Spanish didn't take their women with them like the English settlers so they ended up brown aka not white/western. Also they don't have nearly the same quality of life as the U.S Canada Australia Europe Japan and South Korea do.

Also they have some pretty solidly fucked ideas about who is black in Brazil for example if you're African and not poor in Brazil you aren't considered black. I don't know if that is progressive or regressive or simply fucked. I did research in my Political Science class trying to define western countries from non-western. The only ones that are widely accepted that aren't white are Japan, South Korea, and Hong-Kong which was kinda debatable. The closest new country to being considered western recently was Turkey but, with repeated denials of their application to join the EU and the suicide bombings plus the whole most terrorists being muslim thing they're not really in the running anymore.

It's kinda funny that Japan and South Korea, East Asian countries, are considered Western.

I know why, but still .

[wonderlust]

And often ruled by dictators, with endemic corruption problems that prevent them from having them same culture as what I consider the west.

The ironic part is, most dictators were put in Latin America by the US, during the Cold War years.

In a few countries like Cuba and Venezuela, they were later replaced by other dictators with opposing political views. But the vast majority of Latin American countries have had democracy for a few decades now.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

So you don't even have your own?

Agreeing with the opinions or beliefs of another does not mean you have no opinions or beliefs.

[sarahtasher]

It's kinda funny that Japan and South Korea, East Asian countries, are considered Western.

Short of ''white'' and ''protestant'' and most likely ''anglophone'' and probably ''ultra conservative'' what do you consider Western ?

[Ripster42]

I don't really know where you want to get with this argument when a lot of European countries and the US itself are ridiculously corrupt.

Yes, our country is currently being run by a mindless party that literally broke it in the past 12 years because they know how to manipulate lower classes to gain votes way too well. Brazil is currently trying to fight it, we want to overthrow the current government and it won't really take long the way it's going, we've also been arresting a lot of corrupt politicians in the last year as the investigations progressed.

Yes they probably made the biggest money robbery from the sate in history of humanity but it's not going to end well for them.

Day to day lives. I've never had to bribe anyone or received a bribe. I also don't personally know anyone who has. I've never even been solicited for a bribe. And seriously, there's no way any politician in the US would survive even as long as yours has with the evidence you have. And she still hasn't resigned. Our politicians often resign over the relatively small scandal of being caught sending dick pics. A scandal on the level your country is experiencing would bring out our nut jobs and there's a good chance those politicians would be dead.

Short of Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador and Cuba, who put those dictators in place ?

BTW, the (not entirly false) reasoning behind the propping of most dictators, and the right wing ones are clearly receding, was to allow economic development...

Oh, I freely admit the US had a lot to do with it. But that just points out another difference. The US isn't going to instigate regime change in a 'western country.'

[Artorius]

Also they have some pretty solidly fucked ideas about who is black in Brazil for example if you're African and not poor in Brazil you aren't considered black. I don't know if that is progressive or regressive or simply fucked.

What? What does wage have to do with your fucking skin color? Why does it matter in any meaningful way?

Statistically speaking it's obvious that people with black skin or mestiços (ones who aren't entirely black, but a mixture between black descendants and natives or white people) compose most of the lower-wage class, but that's also a consequence of history.

It's not like you stop having black skin if you're rich, this doesn't make any sense and it doesn't matter. The only thing that it interferes in any way is at entering federal universities, which now have a minimum % of the vacancies pre-defined for black people in order to increase their overall numbers into higher education. Which I consider to be a racist program but whatever.

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Day to day lives. I've never had to bribe anyone or received a bribe. I also don't personally know anyone who has. I've never even been solicited for a bribe.

Neither had I?

[Ripster42]

Neither had I?

Here. This map, while not explaining the particulars, gets my gist across.

Notice, spain, italy, and greece, 3 other countries I don't consider to be western, are also relatively low in the rankings compared to actual western countries.

[wonderlust]

Day to day lives. I've never had to bribe anyone or received a bribe. I also don't personally know anyone who has. I've never even been solicited for a bribe.

Yet you'd be absolutely delusional to believe that bribery, and other forms of corruption, are not happening around you right now, on several spheres, no matter where you're from.

[Ripster42]

Yet you'd be absolutely delusional to believe that bribery, and other forms of corruption, are not happening around you right now, on several spheres, no matter where you're from.

And you'd be absolutely delusional to believe that it occurs with the same prevalence everywhere.

[Deleted]

Short of ''white'' and ''protestant'' and most likely ''anglophone'' and probably ''ultra conservative'' what do you consider Western ?

because they're mostly dirt poor and are third world countries with rampant corruption

that's the real reason, culturally and ethnically they are

-Taftvalue 2016

[wonderlust]

And you'd be absolutely delusional to believe that it occurs with the same prevalence everywhere.

I never said that it occurs with the same prevalence. Just that it's silly to believe that corruption can be used as an accurate measure of anything.

From the link that you posted yourself:

But just because a country has a clean public sector at home, doesn’t mean it isn’t linked to corruption elsewhere.

Take Sweden for instance. It comes third in the index, yet the Swedish-Finnish firm TeliaSonera – 37 per cent owned by the Swedish state – is facing allegations that it paid millions of dollars in bribes to secure business in Uzbekistan, which comes in at 153rd in the index.

The company is now pulling out of business in Central Asia, but Sweden isn’t the only “clean” country to be linked to dodgy behaviour overseas. As our research shows, half of all OECD countries are violating their international obligations to crack down on bribery by their companies abroad.

[sarahtasher]

Here. This map, while not explaining the particulars, gets my gist across.

Notice, spain, italy, and greece, 3 other countries I don't consider to be western, are also relatively low in the rankings compared to actual western countries.

Really, FFS, Italy and Greece, the birthplace of Western civilization are not Western ?

[Artorius]

Here. This map, while not explaining the particulars, gets my gist across.

Notice, spain, italy, and greece, 3 other countries I don't consider to be western, are also relatively low in the rankings compared to actual western countries.

You realise that what you consider or not as Western is largely irrelevant right?

You for some non apparent reason chose to tightly synonym "Western" with "not corrupt", but that's just your definition. Does it mean that someone else's opinion has a heavier weight than yours? Nah not really. But you're not telling us that a country isn't Western or that it is, you're telling us that it's more corrupt or less. But yeah you can use the term as you wish.

[Raamm]

What? What does wage have to do with your fucking skin color? Why does it matter in any meaningful way?

Statistically speaking it's obvious that people with black skin or mestiços (ones who aren't entirely black, but a mixture between black descendants and natives or white people) compose most of the lower-wage class, but that's also a consequence of history.

It's not like you stop having black skin if you're rich, this doesn't make any sense and it doesn't matter. The only thing that it interferes in any way is at entering federal universities, which now have a minimum % of the vacancies pre-defined for black people in order to increase their overall numbers into higher education. Which I consider to be a racist program but whatever.

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Neither had I?

Actually it literally does stop you from being rich, http://www.bloomberg.com/features/20...lionaire-odds/ being black literally screws up your chance for being rich and this is coming from someone with a bachelors in Political Science and Economics. The exact reasons are somewhat muddled but, it mostly comes down to the history of racism pretty much everywhere. There are some other factors such as Africa never industrializing properly and when they did it was owned by Europeans or Americans or now the Chinese.

Then there is also the fact that the white nations were built on better land from a trading perspective. Then you have the Europeans practicing murdering and manipulating each other for the better part of a millennia. After they stopped fighting each other they were able to steamroll the whole world due to being better at playing Game of Thrones IRL by magnitudes of several 1,000.

[Ripster42]

I never said that it occurs with the same prevalence. Just that it's silly to believe that corruption can be used as an accurate measure of anything.

From the link that you posted yourself:

Uh huh. And those dirty companies in clean countries, are they government institutions that you have to deal with to get services? Or are they dealing with other countries' government institutions that are corrupt? That makes a huge difference. Your day to day swede/finn isn't required to bribe a county commissioner (or whatever they have) to get a building permit for their business.

It's silly to believe that the prevalence of corruption doesn't effect the culture of a country. And in the case of latin america, basically disqualifies them from being part of the western world.

[wonderlust]

It's silly to believe that the prevalence of corruption doesn't effect the culture of a country. And in the case of latin america, basically disqualifies them from being part of the western world.

The first part of your sentence is true, I never stated otherwise. The latter part is nonsense. Corruption isn't a unit of measurement that can be used to qualify a country to be part of the oh-so-holier-than-thou western world.