Are 2004 "casuals" and 2016 "casuals" the same?

[Deleted]

In Vanilla, the requirement to raid was have 40 people willing to do it, and all be on at the same time. No farming for valor. No dailies, or time-heavy tasks related to raiding. And no, soul shard farming, or mat gathering was NOT a time-heavy task compared to dailies or valor farming.

Did you ever farm for flasks during vanilla?

Obtaining Black Lotuses was a time consuming process. It would spawn in one location in 3 areas and had a long respawn timer. Once collected you needed the Scholomance Lab to convert into flasks. Add on all the mats for potions and I would spend an easy 2-3 hours a day farming before or after raids. The alternative was to buy off the AH but gold was not exactly easy to come by either.

Twice a week we would organise two groups to farm the +20 Stamina (I think) chops from the Feralas island. Potions and food buffs all disappeared on death so progression required a lot of mats or gold especially when we were raiding 5-6 days a week.

Flying and the change in flask mats and production in TBC was a huge time reduction for raiders when compared to Vanilla. Of course, it was possible to raid without farming much but those guilds did not progress fast except in MC. Usually on reaching Nefarian, the mat /gold farming requirements jumped up exponentially.

[Heladys]

See here is the thing they kind of are...

The worst decisions in the game seem to have been made to try and foolishly appease a casual player base. From turning heroics into a joke, to effectively removing normal as a difficulty and even lfr. All the slow poisons leeching away at the game tend to all of been blundered attempts to market to the "casual" players. WoD and MoP are just the jewels on the crown of blizzards choice to chase the lowest denominator regardless of cost..

Blizzard is chasing the money. That means appealing to more than just the try-hard cry-hards.

[Rakoth]

WoW. This thread is going places.

I am a casual now, and yet I was a better player then most people on MMO-champ will ever aspire to be. One of first theorycrafters of this glorious game.

Casual simply means an ability to dedicate time to the game. This community defines it as a lack of skill, no matter what the word means.

Do not judge people on their priorities, it's all a matter of perspective. Some would argue that being able to afford more then 5 hours a week on something that doesn't add any real world material value to your life is a waste of time. Others would say differently.

Don't judge people on the way they decide to spend time and mental efforts. I am sure they can kick your ass in a skill you don't value as highly.

Also, for those of you thinking that Blizzard is doing the wrong thing by chasing the money. Look at how well the latest "Hardcore" MMO did. Wildstar is now F2P, and they were TBC hardcore style.

Welcome to the age of mobile games and casual gaming. The term "gamer" doesn't mean the same thing, especially since it now includes my 72 year old grand-ma who sometimes plays games on her phone and iPad.

[urasim]

Yes, because casual just means a person who plays the game casually.... It's about time management and not skill set.

[spurx]

Did you ever farm for flasks during vanilla?

Obtaining Black Lotuses was a time consuming process. It would spawn in one location in 3 areas and had a long respawn timer. Once collected you needed the Scholomance Lab to convert into flasks. Add on all the mats for potions and I would spend an easy 2-3 hours a day farming before or after raids. The alternative was to buy off the AH but gold was not exactly easy to come by either.

Twice a week we would organise two groups to farm the +20 Stamina (I think) chops from the Feralas island. Potions and food buffs all disappeared on death so progression required a lot of mats or gold especially when we were raiding 5-6 days a week.

Flying and the change in flask mats and production in TBC was a huge time reduction for raiders when compared to Vanilla. Of course, it was possible to raid without farming much but those guilds did not progress fast except in MC. Usually on reaching Nefarian, the mat /gold farming requirements jumped up exponentially.

Cleared Nax. We never bothered with any of that nonsense. Raiding was not hard in Vanilla and those consumables were only necessary on certain progression fights and usually only for the first kill.

It follows the same mentality you see in today's WoW, where groups want 720+ item level to complete normal Hellfire Citadel. Consumables in Vanilla weren't that necessary.

[Nosdrone]

The casuals of today better than any of the supposed "old school hardcores" from 2004.

Only thing the "old school hardcores" from 2004 had was loads of time. They'd sit for hours on their camp toilets w/ a poopsock handy, auto-attacking mobs and using two button rotations.

[Baconeggcheese]

Yeah I used to be a "casual" player through vanilla and BC, I left for several years and came back to a completely different game. I'm a super hardcore 1% player now by todays standards, even though I play the game in very much the same way.

I hesitate to call things "casual" so much as "streamlined".

Black desert is a game that recently came out that is super casual friendly for the mass majority of activities, and yet it looks a lot more like your typical grindy heavy time investment old school mmo's. Vanilla and BC were also really casual friendly, though they were very time consuming.

[Toxigen]

Cleared Nax. We never bothered with any of that nonsense. Raiding was not hard in Vanilla and those consumables were only necessary on certain progression fights and usually only for the first kill.

It follows the same mentality you see in today's WoW, where groups want 720+ item level to complete normal Hellfire Citadel. Consumables in Vanilla weren't that necessary.

Loatheb says hi. The total number of man hours required to generate enough consumables to kill Loatheb was staggering. He only became slightly more tame as we started getting super deeply geared/outfitted with phat T3 drops.

I don't believe you cleared Naxx in Vanilla with that kind of mindset, not for a second.

- - - Updated - - -

The casuals of today better than any of the supposed "old school hardcores" from 2004.

Only thing the "old school hardcores" from 2004 had was loads of time. They'd sit for hours on their camp toilets w/ a poopsock handy, auto-attacking mobs and using two button rotations.

Loads of time, and an entirely different mindset when approaching challenges within a game.

Now, all challenge is gone because the average player's mindset has slowly dwindled into complete and utter helplessness and refusal to fail as part of the learning curve.

Christ, you're a SJW for shitters. Congrats.

[Pull My Finger]

You need to realize that "casuals" don't exist. It's a stupid term someone made up one day, a silly tag, a catch phrase someone came up with to designate an imaginary "other". It's not like you're born in the Republic Of Causalia, where you get a Casual passport and your name is listed in the citizen index. It's not some group of people you can define by any definite and objective factual criteria.

[Baconeggcheese]

The casuals of today better than any of the supposed "old school hardcores" from 2004.

Only thing the "old school hardcores" from 2004 had was loads of time. They'd sit for hours on their camp toilets w/ a poopsock handy, auto-attacking mobs and using two button rotations.

I'm an "old school casual" and I ended up coming back to the game and got into a us top 10 guild by just applying what knowledge I had from my "old school casual" days.

There are definitely people who fit your criteria, seen plenty of examples of people who never progressed as players. But to say that the casuals of today are better than the hardcore players of yore is disingenuous at best. The game demands so little of the average player today vs what it did once upon a time.

Remember this isn't a skill based game, it's predominately a knowledge based one. And "most" people never bother to seek out that knowledge if they don't have to.

[MrExcelion]

I'd say the interests and playstyles have changed, yes. Not as noticeable as a full generation, but yeah, sure. Used to be a lot of 5 day raiding guilds in vanilla.

[Toxigen]

The hardcores of '98 - '04 would make your heads spin. It really doesn't matter what game you wish to highlight...Everquest was most notorious for crazy poop-socking. Asheron's Call was a totally different set of variables, but much of the same philosophy. You, as a player, do whatever it takes to overcome obstacles...not shy away from difficulty or quit all together when you can't figure it out the first time.

It happened in every MMORPG, though. I'd say the only folks today at that same level of dedication are those that race for World First.

[Flurryfang]

I would assume anyone who has spent more then three minutes with a "casual" player.

I know casuals players, i play with them a bit and i would say that your claim is false.

[MoanaLisa]

No, they aren't. After playing the same game for over ten years? No, definitely not.

[Kazgrel]

Some of the responses here serve as a perfect example of why the community in this game has gone to shit over the years.

[urasim]

Some of the responses here serve as a perfect example of why the community in this game has gone to shit over the years.

How so? I don't think this community has change at all.

[Nosdrone]

The hardcores of '98 - '04 would make your heads spin.

The hardcores of '98-'04 are old plodding poopsockers who would have no idea what to do in today's gaming. They can't simply run trains for hours across zones and sit and farm the same monsters for 8 hours straight. The amount of twitch and reflex gaming would make them quit and run home to mommy. They'd be looking for the difficulty settings in Dark Souls within minutes.

"Back in my day" = "back in our POS game in which you had three abilities and no guides online because the Internet as a whole was much smaller"

Topkek

[Zuben]

That anniversary Molten Core raid certainly rekt my PUG enough times to make it an... 5 hour run? Or was it longer? Took enough time that people started chatting at some point and by the end everyone was laughing at inside jokes. Felt like old content really had its way with present day casuals.

[Deleted]

Its almost objective to suggest that casual and hardcore is linked only to the time you choose / can afford to play the game. In context they are basically the same. A lot of this thread is based on the subjectivity of what people interpret casual players to be like. The dodgy apparently link to time spent playing and skill. There is a tiny correlation but we've all played with amazing players who spend very little time playing the game and those who spend all their time and are pretty bad.

Looking at it, 'casuals' suffered more in Vanilla due to that games main focus being on the time invested, and the skill requirements and skill ceilings being fairly low. Nowadays, the game is more casual friendly because it leans more on individual skill and relies less on farming for years on end just to be on par with other players.

The way it is now is a healthier way for a game to be, its not perfect, but it is.

And I say this after playing this game for 9 years (not like that matters).

[Kazgrel]

Who, besides assholes, defines it like this?

Tryhards. The definition in 2004 still applies now.