There's no problem here so long as the gear you can earn over the course of doing the CMs is good enough to allow you to run the top end CMs.
There's no problem here so long as the gear you can earn over the course of doing the CMs is good enough to allow you to run the top end CMs.
Currently playing Borderlands 1 remaster. Amped for Borderlands 3.
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your post makes alot of inaccurate assumptions and reeks of arrogance. No where did i suggest that i have a problem accomplishing the 45 min timer or that i even have a problem with the current incarnation's timers. again you assume incorrectly that not wanting a timer equals skill or lack thereof. I simply want to do it as i see fit. just because it takes 2 hrs doesn't mean the boss will finally go down. i'm merely opposed to timers and don't see the need. you however see the need because you equate it to skill. which again is inaccurate.
The only thing I "assumed" is what you said yourself in your post, that you don't want to be beholden to a timer. And that's just nonsense. If you want meaningful end-game content you can either make bosses ridiculously hard and require dozens of wipes (mythic raiding) or you can make the bosses relatively easy but make the run timed so that you have to do better each time in order to get rewarded (new Mythic+ dungeons). I don't see how it's arrogance to expect you to be able to sit still for 45 minutes in order to complete a dungeon and get rewarded for it. If you have a problem with this mentality you should go play a game where other people aren't sitting there waiting for you.
Ixila of Forgotten Aspects - US Hyjal 13/13 Mythic Hellfire Citadel
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I think it's fine if Mythic raiders progress in CMs faster than non-Mythic raiders as long as those who choose to only play CMs are able to keep on progressing.
The thing is that this content is meant to be an alternate way to get some of the best end game gear by doing said content by itself, not an alternate activity for already mythic geared players to do at max challenge that others can't (though of course those players are still free to participate in the challenge). Imo I think this is partially Blizzard's attempt to have mythic raiding share the #1 spot for being PvE end game. We have enough PvE content that is dominated solely by mythic raid gear steamrolling.
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Timers actually do serve a need. Look at raiding, and how for some fights in the past few years could essentially have some troublesome mechanics/phases entirely skipped by simply using Heroism at the right time. The same thing applies to dungeon bosses, but even more so seeing as the bosses have so little health in comparison. Without a strict enough timer the new Mythic+ dungeons could allow a group to hero on every single boss, wipe to clear the debuff or wait it out, and then use it again on the next boss to completely bypass a troublesome mechanic with the group using insane burst. While it is true that the MoP & WoD timed runs would sometimes allow this you still couldn't wipe your debuff every boss or even every dungeon. Eventually you would need to start downing bosses without it and, despite the timed rush still had to do some bosses without constantly having hero up like you do for raiding. No timers make runs very safe feeling in comparison.
It will be easier for mythic raiders but they will get better gear from mythic raids anyways so they wont need mythic dungeons later in the expac. Nor should they - since mythic+ dungeons will not have lockouts so otherwise Blizzard would force an endless amount of farm for the people who already devote the most time to this game - and that is against the stance Blizzard has taken for several years now.
For the not-so-mythic raiders, the dungeons will be useful up to a point, like currently, you can get gear that is better than the first mythic HFC bosses from mythic dungeons if you get wf 720+ gear. So people can gear from lower mythic+ dungeons and clear the harder mythic+ dungeons but since they dont devote the hours needed for mythic raiding, it will be harder for them. Is there a problem with this picture? Blizzard already said that raiding will still be the best and fastest way to gear and I approve of this - the time and organization required for true raiding should provide the best rewards.
Also, I must ask - why do people like you start threads like this and ask questions that Google will answer faster than these forums - like you asked about transmogs and there currently is an arfifact skin linked to mythic+ dungeons on alpha? Or do you just want to discuss topics that by their very nature divide the community such as gear availability?
I'm mostly for the general framework for how Mythic+ works, with the exception of axing timers (My ideal version of what mythics should have been in WoD are what Mythic+ is now. I would have preferred timed runs to also be included as a seperate thing.) One of my issues is the reward system. As I mentioned earlier in the thread random non set gear with big stats isn't a big motivator for me. Rewards that stay with my character and are not outleveled by it are what push me.
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Yeah this is how I'm starting to feel. In WoD I haven't been even a consistent heroic raider, but I do decent at timed CMs. It was good to have a niche that didn't allow mythic raiders to overshadow you on neccesary simply because of larger group size/higher ilvl.
Legendaries: Mythics: High skilled players: Mass RNG.
Mythics are now Greater Rifts. What happens in greater rifts in diablo you say? The requirement for near perfect RNG.
How many people clear the competitive rifts and under 100? Only the 100 best.
Mythics will be as GR's and will gate like a motherfucker. They are pseudo fun.
I was a Death's Demise.
Those were the good old days.
We have no idea what itemization for this looks like though. All they've said is that you get a reward at the end of the run and then you get a "big reward" at the end of the week based on how far you progress. Whether thats strictly non set gear or otherwise, we'll have to wait and see.
I do worry a bit, like OP does, when it comes to these new "Mythic/CM dungeons", but at the same time, i am also exited This is something new and it can pretty much go both ways. I will wait undtil release to give my judgement.
i just don't understand why it's a problem when someone plays on a higher level than you. Just stop being envious. don't look to the sides. the best thing about such a scaling system is that everybody has his own personal endgame and progression. Items should matter because it's more fun when they do (in pve). Does it spoil your fun when someone else is a few (item)levels higher than you doing the same content on a higher difficulty?
No it doesn't bother me if someone plays at a higher level or has higher gear, I'm totally fine with that. One of the concerns I had was if the highest reward cap for Mythic+ was only achievable by having mythic raid gear (thus implying that in the end Mythic+ would just turn into another end game for geared mythic raiders & not an actual more or less equal alternative to end game pve outside of mythic raiding). However, as posters have already said Blizzard plans to allow the difficulty cap to go far beyond the final reward cap. I just wouldn't want the existence of mythic raid gear to pigeonhole players into doing that content in order to achieve the highest rewards in a completely separate form of pve content (Mythic+). However, we'll have to wait & see if the lower levels of Mythic+ do in fact transition smoothly enough to gradually funnel players into the higher levels with the better rewards solely by that gear and not from mythic raid gear.
In the end you'll have to do both types of content, if you want to maximize your drops, anyways. Mythic+ dungeons will be an alternative for raids for when you don't like raiding, but it won't be an alternative when you do want to raid or when you want all the rewards per week. In this case, Mythic+ dungeons will be an addition to fill out your week. Many raiders only come online for raids and nothing else. With this, they'd have a reason to keep playing.
The best thing about mythic+ dungeons are the appropriate rewards, which give you a progression no matter how good or bad your equip is. Mythic raiders will get mythic equip to help them progress in mythic raids and in pushing higher dungeon levels. But HC raiders will also get hc equivalent gear that helps them progress through HC and push into mythic and higher dungeon levels (mythic equivalent levels). Normal raiders will get normal equivalent gear that'll help to push into HC raids and higher mythic+ levels. LFR players will get their respective equip that increases their ilvl so that they might want to try out Normal raids or push mythic+ dungeons a bit higher to get even better equip. And someone who doesn't raid at all, can also start from a low dungeon level and progress higher and higher with continuous rewards.
But that's just theoretical until they implement the rewards. We can only hope that they don't mess it up.
With the exception of Blizzcon reveals & small things here & there on the forums I tend to stray away from Googling everything since I want most of the game to stay new & fresh feeling to me by the time it releases on live, not to end up one of those players bored of the game before it is even out. However, I would like to ask you why you feel the need to try and derail my thread because you don't like how I go about posting/enjoying the game?
People wanted dungeons to become an alternative progression path. Without the timer, it's just 5 man raiding.
If you're undergeared for Mythic+ L.6, you can gear for it by running Mythic+ L.5.
As it should be.
Obviously Mythic Raiders are going to have an advantage, that's the reward for being a Mythic Raider.
How they distribute rewards will matter.
There needs to be rewards relative to the level you successfully clear that scales up to a certain point, at which point you are playing for bragging rights.
The "leaderboard" system needs to be purely transmog/bragging rights, otherwise people will be getting locked out of loot by people who don't need the loot.
Let's say, hypothetically, that 100 groups do Keystone Dungeons on Server X. The top 10 groups get Mythic Raid Gear (no set pieces). You otherwise get standard Mythic DUNGEON gear from the end chests.
This would mean that theoretically, if your server has 2 strong Mythic guilds on it, 8 out of the 10 groups getting "leaderboard" rewards are already getting that gear (actually better versions of that gear since it is tier piece eligible) REGARDLESS of the Keystone dungeons.
If I'm already 880 Ilvl, then getting an 880 reward doesn't do anything for me, but a guy in 840 gear would obviously really benefit from the 880 gear -- but because I already have full 880 gear from mythic raiding, and the 840 guy can't do mythic raids because of whatever, I'm now blocking Johnny 840 from getting his upgrade just so I can brag about how 1337 I am.
The solution to this is simple: the "leaderboard" aspect is cosmetic, your gear rewards depend on the highest level successfully cleared (within time frame), capping off at near Mythic-raid equivalent, but being ineligible to drop tier pieces or class trinkets.
And that is why I see many of the changes Blizzard has made to CMs coming in to Legion. Though I still haven't found any answers anywhere about if there is anything cosmetic attached to these runs. It is a shame if they are simply done away with because they don't want them rewarding stat gear & cosmetic rewards. A true alternative to raiding would follow the raiding model that offers good gear & mounts/titles.