Do you think Blizzard will make any statement about shutting down Nos PS?

[Tart]

Exactly this, Please stop acting as if it's the same thing, yes they had all right to do it but it does have completely valid counter arguments against blizzard.

"Stealing" in the virtual world is a different and more complicated beast.

I love how these people pretend they've never downloaded a torrent or grabbed a tune from youtube before.

But that's allowed to be brushed under the rug as they chose not to play nos and not be a hardened criminal. I'm expecting Durham constabulary to raid my home any minute due to this unforgiveable crime of playing on nos.

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Straight up denial, you act as if blizzard hasn't done anything stupid at all. They just don't want people preferring the old world over their shitty new WoD one. It's a case of them getting all pouty because people like old content. What kind of message would it send if people played vanilla over current? It would show how incompetent they are at engaging people.

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A lot of private servers are hosted in different countries such as Russia and they don't care what Blizzard wants and won't listen to any take down notices.

But not all of them surely. Do you not think it's a bit of a coincidence that they pulled the plug as the nos server was getting bigger and bigger?

[GeekofFury]

Genuine question here. If IP law is all they care about then why are other private servers allowed to continue?

As for resource being wasted, I think they are doing a pretty good job of spunking a lot of it away in the live game now with multiple difficulties, toys and pet battles....but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

As to IP, I'm not an IP lawyer, so take all of this for what it's worth, but, my understanding involves 2 answers to your question. First, as has been said, many private servers are in countries that couldn't give three shits about other countries' IP laws and claims. Second, I believe that as long as a company takes *reasonable* actions and precautions to maintain control of their IP, no judge will strip their ownership. So in effect, Blizz doesn't have to chase down ever single tiny private server, but Nos was huge (800k accounts) and many judges might rule that a willful oversight and non-enforcement of a copyright / patent ownership if Blizz didn't act to shut it down.

In regards to resources, I never said wasted. Everyone has an opinion about what content is "wasted" purely on what their personal preferences are, and often assign objective value to their subjective opinions. My resources comment was simply stating my personal preference that Blizz never reduce current game development resources in order to develop legacy servers.

[MoanaLisa]

As to IP, I'm not an IP lawyer, so take all of this for what it's worth, but, my understanding involves 2 answers to your question. First, as has been said, many private servers are in countries that couldn't give three shits about other countries' IP laws and claims. Second, I believe that as long as a company takes *reasonable* actions and precautions to maintain control of their IP, no judge will strip their ownership. So in effect, Blizz doesn't have to chase down ever single tiny private server, but Nos was huge (800k accounts) and many judges might rule that a willful oversight and non-enforcement of a copyright / patent ownership if Blizz didn't act to shut it down.

A missing piece in the defense of IP discussion is that it's not generally known how many servers Blizzard has taken down--it's more than just this one--and no one but Blizzard and their legal team knows how many C&D letters they send out that get ignored or agreed to. I agree that they don't need to chase down everyone to qualify for defending their IP but by the very nature of what it is we here have no idea at all as to what they have actually done in the past.

[GeekofFury]

A missing piece in the defense of IP discussion is that it's not generally known how many servers Blizzard has taken down--it's more than just this one--and no one but Blizzard and their legal team knows how many C&D letters they send out that get ignored or agreed to. I agree that they don't need to chase down everyone to qualify for defending their IP but by the very nature of what it is we here have no idea at all as to what they have actually done in the past.

Another good point, thank you.

[Chirri]

Genuine question here. If IP law is all they care about then why are other private servers allowed to continue?

It seems very odd that so many Nost defenders seem to be under the assumption that Nost is the first private server Blizzard has managed to get closed down. They've literally been doing it for years. Nost was getting a ridiculous amount of publicity and wound up with a great big target on it's head thanks to its own community - and Nost players can't imagine why Blizzard may have prioritized the Nost version over others when Nost was apparently within legal reach? There's absolutely no reason to mindlessly stick to a chronological list of private servers when most of them are crap, and one of them is proving both much more stable and popular. (it's a tribute to the people behind Nost that it was so successful, but their visibility skyrocketed and this is a consequence)

I don't know what other private servers are on their list to get taken down, but I do imagine there is a list, and the unlucky ones get bumped to top priority if they manage to generate too much buzz.

If someone else manages to re-create the high quality Nost offered, while still being able to pay their bills and fly under the radar, it'll last a great deal longer, I expect. Perhaps if they'd kept Nost off Twitch and the like they'd have had more longevity, and donations would have managed to keep them afloat.

[Seranthor]

Straight up denial, you act as if blizzard hasn't done anything stupid at all. They just don't want people preferring the old world over their shitty new WoD one. It's a case of them getting all pouty because people like old content. What kind of message would it send if people played vanilla over current? It would show how incompetent they are at engaging people.

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A lot of private servers are hosted in different countries such as Russia and they don't care what Blizzard wants and won't listen to any take down notices.

Blizzard has done plenty of stupid shit if you ask me... This wasn't one of those stupid things... Here is a life lesson, if you like your vanilla server experience there are a few ways to keep it and keep it alive 1) make sure the server bill is paid (THAT server didn't) 2) Stop parading around and announcing to the world what you are doing (countless threads here about it, the YouTubers streaming it, and the fucking taunting of Blizzard) 3) might want to add this to 2) but I think its important all by itself, STFU about what you are doing, Do it, enjoy it and stay the fuck out of trouble.

the 'message' Blizzard sent and wanted to send is running fucking illegal servers is not allowed and Blizzard is protecting their product.

Dont like the message, tough.

[Surfd]

Actually yes they did in part (and the other part was coded by the community, not Blizzard).
As usual, the Blizzard fanboys are ignorant and don't even know how a private server works nor what it is.

So just to educate people like you : private servers are programs which are entirely developped outside Blizzard. They EMULATE a "real" Blizzard servers functionnally, but their code is NOT copied from Blizzard.

For someone who claims to know a lot, you actually seem to know jack shit.

It makes absolutely no difference if the private server is running a direct copy of blizzard's code, or a cobbled together emulation script: if it is acting like a WoW server, and is not run by blizzard or a blizzard sanctioned party, it is illegal to operate it. Does not matter if you are providing the "service" free of charge. Does not matter if people want the service and blizzard is not providing it. Blizzard, or parties legally contracted with blizzard, are the only entities allowed to run servers for WoW. Period. The End.

Not to mention that the very act of connecting to one with your client is also pretty much in direct violation of the End User Licence Agreement, which you agreed to the instant you unwrapped the celophane off your Vanilla CDs and installed the client. Blizzard wholly owns ALL of the rights and privledges regarding the content on those CDs, regardless of what you might believe, and one of the things they specifically stated in the EULA is that connecting those assets to any non-officially blizzard sanctioned server of any kind is a direct violation of said EULA.

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Yeah, let's get your brain working, idiot :
Datamining is also "illegal", yet Blizzard doesn't care if MMO-Champion copy-paste it all over. Why ? Because it doesn't really affect them, because they don't lose money over it.
Pservers are "illegal" in the same way, and until now Blizzard didn't bother with them - even blue themselves basically said "well, these people who play pservers don't like retail, so it's not like we were losing customers". Now it seems something has changed.

Private servers and data mining have absolutely nothing in common.

Datamining is basicly digging through game data and posting "hey, here is this neat thing i found". That has pretty much no appreciable impact on anything blizzard offers. It's essentially free advertising and publicity.

Private servers however are against blizzards stated EULA in every way, shape and form. They have a direct impact on the product blizzard offers, as well as an appreciable legal consequence if they are not at least somewhat appreciably dealt with through copyright / IP issues.

The fact that you would seriously attempt to compare the two as if you acctually had some kind of defendable arguement in there just shows how desperate you are to grasp at any possible straw you can find to paint blizzard as the bad guy here. I mean, what's next? Are you going to rant and rave about blizzard not going after Machinima creators?

[Deleted]

Where did they say that? They said they had 130 active *accounts* not users.
http://i.imgur.com/jxtOQlu.jpg

F-in hell, I would've loved to take part of those AVs...

Petty I didn't notice that server sooner.

[Zoldam]

Doubtful but who knows, they have let some odd comments slip by in the past.

[Niwes]

since actvi$$ion bli$$greed is all about $$$, i assure you as hell, if they found a dirty smuddy cooy of their vanilla code, and subs going down to <2mio, 1-2 years in the future, they will sell their own "classic experience" too

if that game and their servers are shutted down with no try to make the last bit of money even out of a "here is your vanilla stuff, take it as it is and replay the old great moments" shit, i will eat my shoes.

and yes, i know they said it will never happen. and yes, i know they said the codebase is lost.

[Tart]

It seems very odd that so many Nost defenders seem to be under the assumption that Nost is the first private server Blizzard has managed to get closed down. They've literally been doing it for years. Nost was getting a ridiculous amount of publicity and wound up with a great big target on it's head thanks to its own community - and Nost players can't imagine why Blizzard may have prioritized the Nost version over others when Nost was apparently within legal reach? There's absolutely no reason to mindlessly stick to a chronological list of private servers when most of them are crap, and one of them is proving both much more stable and popular. (it's a tribute to the people behind Nost that it was so successful, but their visibility skyrocketed and this is a consequence)

I don't know what other private servers are on their list to get taken down, but I do imagine there is a list, and the unlucky ones get bumped to top priority if they manage to generate too much buzz.

If someone else manages to re-create the high quality Nost offered, while still being able to pay their bills and fly under the radar, it'll last a great deal longer, I expect. Perhaps if they'd kept Nost off Twitch and the like they'd have had more longevity, and donations would have managed to keep them afloat.

Very logical answer thanks.

[Deleted]

It makes absolutely no difference if the private server is running a direct copy of blizzard's code, or a cobbled together emulation script: if it is acting like a WoW server, and is not run by blizzard or a blizzard sanctioned party, it is illegal to operate it.

That is not true. It is perfectly legal to operate a server for WoW. It becomes illegal if the server operator uses Blizzard's protected works. In particular, if they use Blizzard's trademarks (which they do), or Blizzard's assets (which they seem to do by extracting some data from the WoW client), or Blizzard's code (which they don't). If they managed to operate without using Blizzard's trademarks, assets, or code (which is possible, but a lot of work), then it would be legal. Any users connecting to the server might still be in breach of contract with Blizzard though (they might have agreed to some terms that disallow use of the WoW client for anything besides connecting to Blizzard's servers).

There might be some fair use defense for using the Blizzard IP in the servers, but private server operators don't have the money to defend themselves in court so Blizzard can just bully them to close down with legal threats.

[Surfd]

That is not true. It is perfectly legal to operate a server for WoW. It becomes illegal if the server operator uses Blizzard's protected works. In particular, if they use Blizzard's trademarks (which they do), or Blizzard's assets (which they seem to do by extracting some data from the WoW client), or Blizzard's code (which they don't). If they managed to operate without using Blizzard's trademarks, assets, or code (which is possible, but a lot of work), then it would be legal. Any users connecting to the server might still be in breach of contract with Blizzard though (they might have agreed to some terms that disallow use of the WoW client for anything besides connecting to Blizzard's servers).

There might be some fair use defense for using the Blizzard IP in the servers, but private server operators don't have the money to defend themselves in court so Blizzard can just bully them to close down with legal threats.

I am not 100% sure, but I dont believe that there is a single private server out there that runs on 100% blizzard free code. Every single one of them requires some kind of data from an actual blizzard product to be able to run. From what I understand, even the server that nostralus ran on was a fork of a server that was basically built on stolen Blizzard Alpha code, and literally can not be compiled without accessing information from official blizzard code.

[Deleted]

I am not 100% sure, but I dont believe that there is a single private server out there that runs on 100% blizzard free code.

Every single one of them does. Nobody but Blizzard has access to their server code, so it was all rewritten from scratch.

Every single one of them requires some kind of data from an actual blizzard product to be able to run.

Exactly like I said. They tend to import data like maps from the client. If they recreated this data themselves, then it wouldn't be Blizzard's copyrighted work, but that would be a lot of effort. There might also be a fair use defense for using those assets, at least in some jurisdictions.

From what I understand, even the server that nostralus ran on was a fork of a server that was basically built on stolen Blizzard Alpha code, and literally can not be compiled without accessing information from official blizzard code.

I have never seen any indication of anything like that. You're probably confused about the difference between server code and client code.

[ls-]

From what I understand, even the server that nostralus ran on was a fork of a server that was basically built on stolen Blizzard Alpha code, and literally can not be compiled without accessing information from official blizzard code.

Nah, mangos was blizz code free.

[PenguinChan]

Doubtful, and if they do it won't be the light that individuals want to hear. If they do shine any positive light on the subject, I doubt it'd be anything but a carbon copy response from years past. It's just not time yet IMO.

[Akka]

The EU forums are slow. Lots of stupid crap stays there surprisingly long. Don't draw too many conclusions from it.

It's not about being slow, it's about the fact that instead of locking up the thread and saying "private servers discussions are forbidden on the forums", they close the thread and redirect the discussion on the one speaking about legacy server.

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Nothing has changed... MMO-C has permission to do what they do, So Blizzard leaves them alone... Private servers dont have permission and Blizzard goes after the ones that they deem necessary. Nothing has changed. period.

And why has MMO-C the permission, duh ?
In your haste to be a contrarian, you just plunged under the point in order to miss it.

[TheVaryag]

I'f you check their Facebook page, and forums... things seem a bit out of hand, I don't think they anticipated pissing this many people off to the point of Boycott and refunds.
The game is not in a great state currently, nor is their PR to begin with either, and with the movie looking how it is idk.
What are some of your thoughts to their strategy?

Basically, they've batted a blind eye to It for the last year, since around April 2015 I believe, give or take. And now that Legion Is closer, they want those "Vanila players" to join Legion, to get dat nostalgia there Instead of Nostalrius. Why? Dat moneh moneh flow... well how about instead of ruining a non-profitable fan project by 30 people they actually make their EXPANSIONS better, and have people stay and play on It Instead...

I think they didn't expect such a backlash, and that's good. The "Pilgramage" run that happened for Nostalrius from Orgrimmar to Thunder Bluff was one of the big showings of how people want to play, and another showing Is statistics which cannot lie.

150k active players on Nostalrius, 900k Registered accounts give or take, many of which played casually you can assume, people work, have families, love lives and so on... can't play for every single day and be counted Into "Active" players.

But then, even 800k accounts says something, that's around 1/3 of the entire current wow population which Is rumoured around 3.5 - 3.0 mil players left. The last official report being 5.5 mil at Q3 2015, which considering the content draught of WoD Is safe to assume the player base Is around the above estimate.

If that Isn't reason for Blizzard to worry, or care... I don't know what Is. And let me re-state as I always do, I and many others were banned recently for non-sensical reasons (We're not the bot-users), I was for example hacked on my account and never given the account... why? No reason, we can't tell you, bye....... whaaat?

Me and others are banned for similar reasons, and most of us are ALSO Vanila players, older people who wanted to experience the ye olden days, some of us even played Nostalrius, I didn't but I was going to begin, well I won't now. I don't know why Blizzard suddenly has a hard on for banning loyal 10+ year long players of their game, because we'll just go to places like Nostalrius, or forums and tell how badly they've treated us which Is just more and more bad PR for them. Instead, we could've been playing their game still, keeping the subs up, luring more people In, giving good PR for their game on forums and everywhere...

Blizzard needs to just seriously rethink their stance, and I don't believe they'll make ANY official statement about Nostalrius, even If they do It'll be vague and lies all around to cover up their need to bring back vanila players, which they've obviously failed to do as they look at their forums and Email boxes at the backlash and rage over Nostalrius going down.

They've batted an eye on It for a year... no more It seems.

[Akka]

For someone who claims to know a lot, you actually seem to know jack shit.

It makes absolutely no difference if the private server is running a direct copy of blizzard's code, or a cobbled together emulation script: if it is acting like a WoW server, and is not run by blizzard or a blizzard sanctioned party, it is illegal to operate it. Does not matter if you are providing the "service" free of charge. Does not matter if people want the service and blizzard is not providing it. Blizzard, or parties legally contracted with blizzard, are the only entities allowed to run servers for WoW. Period. The End.

For someone who claims to know a lot, you actually seem to know jack shit.

It's actually perfectly legal to emulate the functionality of another program. Emulators ARE legal. As long as a private server doesn't use Blizzard code, their code is entirely legal.

So try to educate people only once you educate yourself, maybe ?

Not to mention that the very act of connecting to one with your client is also pretty much in direct violation of the End User Licence Agreement, which you agreed to the instant you unwrapped the celophane off your Vanilla CDs and installed the client. Blizzard wholly owns ALL of the rights and privledges regarding the content on those CDs, regardless of what you might believe, and one of the things they specifically stated in the EULA is that connecting those assets to any non-officially blizzard sanctioned server of any kind is a direct violation of said EULA.

That is the only remotely true issue.

Private servers and data mining have absolutely nothing in common.

Datamining is basicly digging through game data and posting "hey, here is this neat thing i found". That has pretty much no appreciable impact on anything blizzard offers. It's essentially free advertising and publicity.

And Vanilla servers are offering a service that Blizzard refuses to do, also doesn't impact their business - the offer isn't the same as their own, and they actually EXPRESSED a DISinterest in providing it.

Private servers however are against blizzards stated EULA in every way, shape and form. They have a direct impact on the product blizzard offers, as well as an appreciable legal consequence if they are not at least somewhat appreciably dealt with through copyright / IP issues.

What is their impact ? Save for proving more and more people think retail WoW is shit and the game was better before they ruined it ?

The fact that you would seriously attempt to compare the two as if you acctually had some kind of defendable arguement in there just shows how desperate you are to grasp at any possible straw you can find to paint blizzard as the bad guy here. I mean, what's next? Are you going to rant and rave about blizzard not going after Machinima creators?

No, it just show the foaming-at-the-mouth retards who hurl "ILLEGAL !!!! EVIL !!!!" are cretins working on robotic impulse without a thought. Plenty of things are technically illegal under copyright laws (which are, on the whole, very excessive and twisted reflection of what copyright was supposed to be initially) but are inconsequential so people don't give a shit.
That is, until it triggers their fanboy button, at which point this inconsequential stuff becomes some kind of very serious felony deserving of Great Justice Punishment.

[Deleted]

Do I think they'll make any statement? No. It would surprise me very much if they did. There may still be the threat of pending legal action and as long as that's going on the only thing you're ever likely to hear about it is from their lawyer's filings.

For the most part this will be largely over in a week or two.

I doubt, they will let Blizz live it down, they might get temporary rest until they resub for pre-patch or legions.
They annoyed a very active community and I wouldn't be surprised if it was mostly the same ones who were around here in the past, everyday I played there was jokes about live servers such as:

Want to level fast? Go play retail
Want to speed run dungeons? Go play. Retail
how do I get mythic gear without raiding mythic.... Etc