[Spoilers] The corruptor of the Emerald Dream?

[Jumpmain]

So, I always thought it was N'Zoth who had corrupted the Emerald Dream, after reading Stormrage and from what I've heard around the Internet.
Now the chronicles say it was Yogg-Saron, who had touched the roots of the world tree Andrassil, leading into creating the Emerald Nightmare.
I'm confused, was I misinformed before or did they retcon that?

[Krobane]

After Yogg died N'zoth took over. You were misinformed from the get go

[Wishblade]

"Yogg-Saron had used the trees planted by Fandral as a doorway into the Dream - a doorway through which the other Old Gods could grasp the ethereal domain as well."

So Yogg-Saron was the first one to gain access to the Emerald Dream, but after that the others could make their way in as well and N'Zoth could work his twisted magic.

[Golden Yak]

So, I always thought it was N'Zoth who had corrupted the Emerald Dream, after reading Stormrage and from what I've heard around the Internet.
Now the chronicles say it was Yogg-Saron, who had touched the roots of the world tree Andrassil, leading into creating the Emerald Nightmare.
I'm confused, was I misinformed before or did they retcon that?

It was retconed by Chronicles. Originally, N'Zoth was mentioned as both the corrupter of Deathwing and the one who 'sparked' the Emerald Nightmare. Chronicles changed it so that Yogg-Saron tainted the Emerald Dream, allowing the Old Gods to influence it. So they all may have had a part in spreading the Nightmare over the years - N'Zoth is simply the last remaining Old God who can make use ofi it.

[Jumpmain]

Yeah that's what I was thinking too.
Clearly impressive to see that they can just interact like that with eachother.

[Nize]

I also liked that they tied that into the quests in Grizzly Hills and Vordrassil (aka Andrassil aka Grizzlemaw). You knew that Vordrassil was corrupted by Yogg, but never to the extent of being the doorway to the Emerald Dream

[steelballfc]

So, I always thought it was N'Zoth who had corrupted the Emerald Dream, after reading Stormrage and from what I've heard around the Internet.
Now the chronicles say it was Yogg-Saron, who had touched the roots of the world tree Andrassil, leading into creating the Emerald Nightmare.
I'm confused, was I misinformed before or did they retcon that?

after planting the World tree in Northrend, the root of the tree reached Yogg, and because all world tree is connected to the dream, yogg opened a way to corrupt the dream and gave free pass to other 2 old gods.
now 2 old god are dead and the only one alive "Nz'oth" is controlling the Nightmare " not in legion".

[Olrox]

So based on what we know now from the Chronicle book, which Old Gods are still alive?

[steelballfc]

So based on what we know now from the Chronicle book, which Old Gods are still alive?

Only Nz'oth

[Xerra]

Isn't it implied that old gods can't die and merely go into a psuedo dead hibernation to recharge?

[steelballfc]

Isn't it implied that old gods can't die and merely go into a psuedo dead hibernation to recharge?

it has been rectonned

[Golden Yak]

Isn't it implied that old gods can't die and merely go into a psuedo dead hibernation to recharge?

The whole 'they do not die' thing appears to be propaganda. Though it may refer to the fact that when Old Gods do die, their essence and power spill out of their bodies and pollute the land. This is what caused the Sha in Pandaria - the death of Y'Shaarj spilled his power into the earth. Yogg-Saron mentions that something similar may have happened with his death. Possibly C'Thun as well - his dead body was still radiating dark energy and whispers, and Cho'Gall used it to mutate into a more powerful form.

Cho'Gall seemed to think that he could revive C'Thun, and Y'Shaarj's heart was revived too - its possible that in the right circumstances, an Old God could fully come back to life. Although that's true of a lot of stuff in this setting.

[steelballfc]

The whole 'they do not die' thing appears to be propaganda. Though it may refer to the fact that when Old Gods do die, their essence and power spill out of their bodies and pollute the land. This is what caused the Sha in Pandaria - the death of Y'Shaarj spilled his power into the earth. Yogg-Saron mentions that something similar may have happened with his death. Possibly C'Thun as well - his dead body was still radiating dark energy and whispers, and Cho'Gall used it to mutate into a more powerful form.

Cho'Gall seemed to think that he could revive C'Thun, and Y'Shaarj's heart was revived too - its possible that in the right circumstances, an Old God could fully come back to life. Although that's true of a lot of stuff in this setting.

I would add that C'thun power "when he is dead" is just driving people mad with whispers
his whispers travel through all Azeorth " maybe because Emerald Nightmare"

[Xerra]

Hmmm but if they can die.. then why couldn't the titans just lightly stab them from space with a titan sized murder stick? 25-40 ants zapping a lightshow on their face to a creature that has body parts spamming northrend to duskwood seems hard to believe.

[Qualia]

Hmmm but if they can die.. then why couldn't the titans just lightly stab them from space with a titan sized murder stick? 25-40 ants zapping a lightshow on their face to a creature that has body parts spamming northrend to duskwood seems hard to believe.

The Titans or their Keepers army could kill them, they just didn't do so because killing them would hurt Azeroth and they didn't want that. C'Thun and Yogg's deaths were one of the cause of the Cataclysm, for example. Imprisoning the Old Gods seemed like the best idea allowing them to neutralize the Old Gods while doing no damage whatsoever to the world-soul, so they went with it.

Also, keep in mind that lore-wise, the raid group's size isn't exactly 25-40, but a generic term like "an army" or "a group". There could've easily been more, we just didn't have a 100 or 1000 men raid due to obvious technical issues. Plus, while Yogg's corruption spread far, his body isn't necessarily that big.

[Xerra]

Seems rather dubious to claim that C'Thun and Yogg's death made Deathwing pop out and cause the Cataclysm unless you are refering to another event in which I do not think the old god's deaths had any influence. And the world got roughed up when they ripped out the old god, Im talking about the more mundane stab it till its dead, after that they could have had their robot minions cleaning up tainty tentacles for centuries. I found the idea of imprisonment rather short sighted, say everything went perfect and the old gods never escaped, then the world soul 'hatched' or whatever. I beleive the plant itself becomes the entity therefore the new pantheon brother/sister would be having like 4 tumors on its body.

[Qualia]

Seems rather dubious to claim that C'Thun and Yogg's death made Deathwing pop out and cause the Cataclysm unless you are refering to another event in which I do not think the old god's deaths had any influence. And the world got roughed up when they ripped out the old god, Im talking about the more mundane stab it till its dead, after that they could have had their robot minions cleaning up tainty tentacles for centuries. I found the idea of imprisonment rather short sighted, say everything went perfect and the old gods never escaped, then the world soul 'hatched' or whatever. I beleive the plant itself becomes the entity therefore the new pantheon brother/sister would be having like 4 tumors on its body.

It was an answer for a Blizzcon 2010 Q&A panel by Metzen and Afrasiabi. Someone asked why there hasn't been anything happened to Azeroth even with two Old Gods dead even when there was the theory that it will be doomsday if all the Old Gods are dealt with. The two answered with "Have you played any Cataclysm?" "You know, like, when the world blows up? Because of the Old Gods". After that, the guys even asked again "Because of the Old Gods?" and they replied with "Right". It wasn't elaborated further how their deaths affected the world, but a guess'd be that their deaths weakened the world enough to allow Deathwing to bring forth the Cataclysm. Someone also mentioned that there were the elemental unrest event and the world was shaking way before Deathwing broke through the Maelstrom, when he was still in Deepholm which was on a separated dimension. It's doubtful that Deathwing, as powerful as he was, could affect Azeroth when it wasn't even on the same dimension. You can find that Q&A in the Chronicle spoiler thread (and a few others before as well, it was brought up a few times), I'm a bit lazy to look up the exact post now.

Seeing C'Thun and Yogg's bodies are still largely intact when we killed them (if we are to go by the comics), I doubt the Pantheon's "mundane stab" could do much lesser damage. Additionally, we don't know what was supposed to happen when the world-soul turned into a Titan - maybe they were planning to kill the OGs one by one by then, when the world soul were matured and more durable, for example. Maybe Azeroth was supposed to be able to pluck them from its body like we plucking our some hairs. It's also possible that the OGs' death would still damage Azeroth, but an adult Titan'd have better recovery than an infant (just like how human are). However, whatever they planned went to hell when the Pantheon were defeated and killed by Sargeras, so we'd never know. We can only trust that the Pantheon knew what they were doing, and imprisoning the Old Gods would neutralize them altogether. Not that matters, anyway, seeing at this rate, we'd kill all Old Gods way before Azeroth wakes up (if it ever does, since there is a good chance that it might not).

[Xerra]

I suppose so, though most the cata damage I recall was caused by deathwing himself laying the D all over the world. Then most of the elementals going crazy I would assume was due to the Earth Warder back on Azeroth all good and insane, this is reinforced by the fact that the elements calmed after the raid spanked Deathwing back into the world toilet. I forget if the barren's fissure was from DW or not, but besides that I think the storm in westfall and darkshore are the only anomalies that come to mind that could be non DW related. Though I figured those were elements going crazy, sadly they don't really give a world update after expansions zone by zone. WTB Darnassus Times and Moonbrook monthly.

[Olrox]

Only Nz'oth

Oh ok, just making sure.

So C'thun, Yogg, Y'shaarj, and the other one I'm forgetting, if I'm forgetting one, are all totally dead, but N'zoth is more or less still around?

I unfortunately don't have the book yet, but I'm very interested in the Old Gods, they're pretty neato.

[Qualia]

Oh ok, just making sure.

So C'thun, Yogg, Y'shaarj, and the other one I'm forgetting, if I'm forgetting one, are all totally dead, but N'zoth is more or less still around?

I unfortunately don't have the book yet, but I'm very interested in the Old Gods, they're pretty neato.

There are only 4 in total, so you didn't forget any. But yes, that's how it is at the moment. "At the moment" because the Chronicle book hasn't touched upon C'Thun and Yogg's death yet - it hasn't reached that far - and we only know that based on the Devs answers. It might or might not be changed in the future (it probably won't be changed, but I won't rule out the tiny chance Blizzard decide that it'd be cool to change it).