[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[caturday]

I'm curious was VT self-healing nerfed for pvp or was it strictly a pve change from the previous build?

[l33t]

I'm curious was VT self-healing nerfed for pvp or was it strictly a pve change from the previous build?

VT self-healing was nerfed in this build? O_o

[Nycros]

It's too early to talk about comps. Tuning hasn't happened at all and spells are being removed and added every build. Melee problem is being worked on right now. But I don't want psychic horror back only for the melee problem. It was a cool spell (with orb and insanity cost) and has and would have allowed comp diversity.

I agree that there is no way we will know what comps will be strong in the first season of Legion right now, but as far as class mechanics are concerned we can already see how much weaker godcomp will be (if it exists in Legion at all).

Personally I'd like to see PH return as a talent instead of Mind Bomb. Still replacing scream but as a ranged, single target stun on a 60 sec cooldown. Then your choices are 60 sec ranged stun, 30 sec melee AoE fear or a PvE talent (which will be a hell of a lot of fun to use while levelling, btw).

mindspike needs to be balanced to be a solid aoe dps increase at 1 stack and significant at 2 - putting more gcd's than that into something other than voidbolt/mindblast is unreasonable based on our rotation right now.

Just wanted to chime in on this... it seems that a lot of people are concerned with not having enough GCDs in Voidform for dots and fillers, which is why Mind Spike is such an unpopular talent.

Instead of changing MS, wouldn't a better resolution be to remove the cooldown reduction on Mind Blast in Voidform? This would allow for more filler and thus more available variety in talent choices due to other spells being a larger part of our DPS rotation.

Or alternatively, make Void Bolt replace Mind Blast like I think it was originally intended to do? With talents and ability cooldowns being balanced around it, of course.

/2cents

[Tokas]

how are shadow priests in alpha?
an improvement over live, or meh?
i want to sub again and get ready for legion, but can't decide if this new void form activation over and over again is for me... I sure dislike live balance druid, and alpha shadow seems like it has something in common, what do you think?

[ShasVa]

Looking forward to trying this in Legion. One of few classes I may actually be great at (and in WoD too). Wanna try Havoc Demon Hunter too, but I've never been a hardcore melee player.

The artifact looks...okay. About the only looks I'd go for are the purple ones, and even then probably just the purple variant of the default look. We can still xmog them to other non-artifact weapons, correct?

The artifact traits also look decent. All in all it looks like Shadow could be a good spec going into Legion.

[Aeriel]

VT self-healing was nerfed in this build? O_o

It was the previous build, and was a base healing nerf on VT. So, it was reduced in PvP and PvE as Shadow could effectively outheal mob damage, or at least that was the official response.

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Just wanted to chime in on this... it seems that a lot of people are concerned with not having enough GCDs in Voidform for dots and fillers, which is why Mind Spike is such an unpopular talent.

Instead of changing MS, wouldn't a better resolution be to remove the cooldown reduction on Mind Blast in Voidform? This would allow for more filler and thus more available variety in talent choices due to other spells being a larger part of our DPS rotation.

Or alternatively, make Void Bolt replace Mind Blast like I think it was originally intended to do? With talents and ability cooldowns being balanced around it, of course.

/2cents

The general consensus from alpha is that ST is where the class feels the best. The lack of GCD comes in situations with >3 targets, as 3 targets sounded difficult but doable with VB refresh pre-duration nerf. The only time that haste stacks would be high enough for your proposal to help would be in StM, but then at that point you are just smashing as many buttons as quickly as possible, which is the design.

[Darth-Piekus]

Priest (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
Please reconsider the decision to remove psychic horror from shadowpriests. It's an extremely unique and Iconic ability. It makes me very sad to hear that you guys are removing it with this next build when I don't think Anyone had complained about it or even wants it to be removed. It just feels very disheartening to see this change
Which Shadow utility ability would you rather see removed? (Or do you disagree that they have too much?) (Celestalon)
from a PvP standpoint, they should have a lot of utility since they have a lot of casting
They still have *way* more than *anyone* else. Does that not still fulfill that to you? (Celestalon)


Can someone explain why Celestalon has that kind of thinking and attitude? Is he so blind that he cannot see that not every class has equal utilities?

[snaxattax]

Just wanted to chime in on this... it seems that a lot of people are concerned with not having enough GCDs in Voidform for dots and fillers, which is why Mind Spike is such an unpopular talent.

Instead of changing MS, wouldn't a better resolution be to remove the cooldown reduction on Mind Blast in Voidform? This would allow for more filler and thus more available variety in talent choices due to other spells being a larger part of our DPS rotation.

Or alternatively, make Void Bolt replace Mind Blast like I think it was originally intended to do? With talents and ability cooldowns being balanced around it, of course.

/2cents

the whole replacing spells while in voidform was something that they scrapped. adding more filler gcds would probably just make the talent worse. the insanity per gcd of mindblast is significantly higher than our fillers, and changing this like how you suggest would require pretty much rejiggering everything in our kit. not having to use much of our filler isn't a bad thing, because it does very low damage. the problem is that when artifact traits and talents mod mindflay/spike, they pretty quickly become unusable with any number of extra targets.

[l33t]

Can someone explain why Celestalon has that kind of thinking and attitude? Is he so blind that he cannot see that not every class has equal utilities?

Oh please, just propose them to give us back PH and remove Shackle undead, since they want a trade

[Chantique]

I hope @Theed can give an answer to celestalon soon, but i say remove shackle undead and purify disease.

I still have both on my bar but i used them so rarely that it can't even been counted as a permanent tool of our utilities arsenal. Psychic Horror has way more depth defensively and offensively. I can't even remeber the last time i had to use shackle undead and purify disease on PVP and PVE.

I'm still super pissed that celestalon really counts exclusive talents and skills like Mind Vision and shackle undead as some really awsome and super used utility. Its like they have zero idea on how Shadow Priest plays ><

[Darth-Piekus]

Both Shackle Undead and Mind Vision are basically cosmetic at this point. The First one can only be used in undead and the second one is used to watch a target but renders the caster immobile. The same thing happens with Purify Disease. Noone will ever take that over the others. So you don't need to remove any of them to obtain Horror Back.

So at the end of the day Celestalon proves to be an arrogant asshole who has clearly no idea of the class as also the priest developers also. The more Celestalon talks the more I want to punch him in the face.

[Kilee25]

I really enjoyed shackle undead in vanilla, when doing scholomance and both stratholmes. As a healer I felt awesome for being able to reduce damage and help the group.

Since then, I cannot remember using it again, except that 10 man raid at the start of BC. I think I shackled some adds during the 2nd fight (and some trash leading up tot he 3rd boss), and that was kinda fun.

There really hasn't been many undead since then, and on top of that CCing just hasn't been a thing in ages. I actually enjoyed the days of CC and analysing pulls. It felt like teamwork. But these days everything is just cleave damage and AE silence and stuns... knockbacks, etc... you can chain that stuff long enough to make it past any difficult packs, and honestly it's just more fun group stuff up and AE it all down.

I wouldn't mind seeing a return of the CC days... but it just slows dungeons down so much. I remember back in BC those 2 hour 5-man dungeons.... I don't think people will actually do that these days...

[snaxattax]

Shackle was extremely good in TBC heroics - but, yeah, 5man content doesn't really rely on CC the way it did years ago. With the cmode/mythic+/whatever dungeons all run on a timer system I don't see CC being viable compared to CC chaining and cleave/aoe.

Maybe shackle will be useful in pvp if unholy becomes a dominant spec... but that's a pretty small niche.

[calexanich]

they should have said some stupid talent like remove disease or shackle undead bc those are pretty useless

[Chantique]

Both Shackle Undead and Mind Vision are basically cosmetic at this point. The First one can only be used in undead and the second one is used to watch a target but renders the caster immobile. The same thing happens with Purify Disease. Noone will ever take that over the others. So you don't need to remove any of them to obtain Horror Back.

So at the end of the day Celestalon proves to be an arrogant asshole who has clearly no idea of the class as also the priest developers also. The more Celestalon talks the more I want to punch him in the face.

I know and i agree with you, but since celestalon himself put those spells on the list of shadow priest utilities, he can't come now and say that those two aren't enough for a trade.

Thats why i have seen some priests, including myself, suggesting to give those 2 spells for psychic horror back. That way Celestalon can stop with the "Shadow priests have too much utility" bullshit.

[Theed]

I know and i agree with you, but since celestalon himself put those spells on the list of shadow priest utilities, he can't come now and say that those two aren't enough for a trade.

Thats why i have seen some priests, including myself, suggesting to give those 2 spells for psychic horror back. That way Celestalon can stop with the "Shadow priests have too much utility" bullshit.

I think they will ignore this subject and forget about it just like the removal of shadowform damage reduction, shadowform armor, inner fire and spectral guise.

[Chantique]

I think they will ignore this subject and forget about it just like the removal of shadowform damage reduction, shadowform armor, inner fire and spectral guise.

I know and maybe our demands just sit on deaf ears but we have to try at least. Warriors demanded their fear back for several builds until they got it. Celestalon asked on another thread recently which specs felt too much pruned or which abilities we considered fun and wanted to come back.

I can't see this working for Shadow since he already made his made that we are some sort of utilities god class. But maybe, we have this tiny little chance that if we ask to replace two skills for one, it could work.

So please please @Theed, keep mentioning this until they give a direct answer.

[caturday]

I know and i agree with you, but since celestalon himself put those spells on the list of shadow priest utilities, he can't come now and say that those two aren't enough for a trade.

Thats why i have seen some priests, including myself, suggesting to give those 2 spells for psychic horror back. That way Celestalon can stop with the "Shadow priests have too much utility" bullshit.

QFT. I agree we need psychic horror back. And, allow us to cast spells during dispersion plz.

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I think they will ignore this subject and forget about it just like the removal of shadowform damage reduction, shadowform armor, inner fire and spectral guise.

I wish they gave us passive vampiric self-healing through our damage like BC days. Even 20% healing on our damage passively would be awesome.

- - - Updated - - -

I think they should get rid of vampiric embrace if it's hampering our survival vs melee trains or 1 vs 1 one fights in pvp. Kill off some of our utility and make us more tanky. That was their intention for shadow priests in the class preview section... I don't understand why they would veer away from it now.

[Darth-Piekus]

No we don't need to lose anything else anymore. We have to make Celestalon understand how fucking clueless he is with any means nessesary cause in my opinion we tried being nice and that doesn't get us anywhere. He has to hear a full analysis and if we need to be harsh we should be harsh. He will learn to listen and not be an arrogant asshole or he will listen the hard way.

[caturday]

No we don't need to lose anything else anymore. We have to make Celestalon understand how fucking clueless he is with any means nessesary cause in my opinion we tried being nice and that doesn't get us anywhere. He has to hear a full analysis and if we need to be harsh we should be harsh. He will learn to listen and not be an arrogant asshole or he will listen the hard way.

What do you propose? Should me make a shadow priest twitter account and post all of this information. I feel like he is arrogant most of the time. I wanted to show our community had more class but meh, It's not getting us anywhere. THIS IS WAR TIME TO START THE SHADOW MACHINE!